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Gimli granted access to Valinor? Is that for real? I recall reading something on that before, but highly doubted he would be allowed access.

I just don't see what makes Gimli so special to have the Valar's grace and give him access to Valinor...
I believe Vir is right on this one (there you are Vir you got that in writing!)

Only Gandalf was allowed to go to Valinor. the Rest were permitted only to Tol Eressea as was expected of the Noldor (becuase of there rebelion) and that was a true gift enough for the others...
Legolas however I would imagine would be permitted to go to Valinor, as he was of course not a Noldor.
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Legolas however I would imagine would be permitted to go to Valinor, as he was of course not a Noldor.

I thought that Gimli was also so that he could live the rest of his life with his new friend Smile Smilie If not where did he go ?
I am not saying Legolas DID go to valinor. i am saying that I cannot see why the Valar would hinder him from doing so. I suspect that legolas probably waited for the old Dwarves life to end before he left him. The Great duo they were. A mark of frindeship rarely heard of between the Adopted and the Chosen children of Iluvatar.
I think Lord of All has it right about Gimli and Legolas's journey towards Valinor. Only Legolas arrived there, and only after Gimli finally died; and this assumes their ship didn't swamp after leaving Middle-earth's harbor. All the Appendices to LotR tell us is that they left together, our sense of fairness and our imagination tell us they actually arrived.
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Mellon
I thought that Gimli was also so that he could live the rest of his life with his new friend If not where did he go ?

If that was the case then why couldn't the other members of the fellowship have the privilege to do the same as Gimli? Obviously we know Frodo, Bilbo and Samwise had that gift, but for different reasons completely. In the 1st Age there were many greater Elves than Legolas and they befriended men who were lords of men of the Edain, whom did as great if not greater deeds than Gimli, and they were still not allowed access to the undying lands. I just don't see why Gimli should be allowed the grace of the Elves and Aragorn, Túrin, Húrin, Beren, etc... (The list go on for quite some time) were not granted access.
I believe after Gimli died he would have gone to the halls of his fathers and dwell there until after the Final Battle was over and the dwarves helped to rebuild Arda.

It is also stated at the end of the Akallabeth,
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And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by fate or grace of favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.

We all know Dwarves are not fond of forests, and i doubt water, so in that case I think it's safe to say almost all the Dwarves never tried to sail the seas. Although Tolkien wisely uses the word 'mariners' along with men, even though Gimli was one of these mariners and sailed to Valinor with Legolas... Well the end of the quote can provide your answer as to what happens to him.
Legolas was not of the Noldor (who were permitted only to Tol Eressea with Finarfin there High King). That is why he may have been permitted to journey to Valinor. Gimli, like Frodod and Bilbo, was a mortal so doubtful would be permitted to go to Valinor itself. Gandalf was a Maiar and perhaps the key factor of the War of the Ring, so of course nothing is stopping him going over to Valinor.
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I just don't see what makes Gimli so special to have the Valar's grace and give him access to Valinor...

It's suggested in the LOTR Appendices that Galadriel would have granted this for him.

As for the Noldor, since they were forgiven at the end of the First Age, they could all go to Valinor again, and to Tirion their city where Finarfin lives. The reason that many Elves coming from Middle-earth reside at Tol Eresseä, is simply because they still wish to stay in touch with Middle-earth, so to speak. Their hearts are torn apart between the Undying Lands and Middle-earth.

It's kinda the same reason why the Teleri lived in Alqualondë by the Sea and never moved 'inward'.
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He is without sin, cast the first tomato... and keep in mine that the castee is a Council Member... *ominous glare*.


Point well made, I'll throw the squash instead then! Orc Grinning Smilie
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Point well made, I'll throw the squash instead then!


Why do things half-slow; use a watermellon or a Roc egg instead.
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Why do things half-slow; use a watermellon or a Roc egg instead.

Hey Grondy are you suggestion that he use me then ? (watermellon )
I thought that was a deliberate typo... 'watermelon'..

Do you like watersports, Mellon? I guess in Norway that would refer to iceskating, but anyway.
Well Gimli for me, mainly because there is more information about him and he seems different somehow, he is open to Elvish things and well there is a touch of something about him I like.
I wish he was h ere to help me, I am exhausted getting everything ready for Christmas. Exhausted.
Or perhaps I could use a precious vial of virumor, that would do the trick. Smile Smilie
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Do you like watersports, Mellon? I guess in Norway that would refer to iceskating, but anyway

Nah.. Vir I'm not into watersport at all , I know YOU know that I was simply using a part of my PT name as A JOKE Smile Smilie Are you into any sport then VIR ..or are you just being a sport to settle the argument about ME choosing Gimli? If you were a DWARF my choise would definatly be YOUSmile Smilie
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Or perhaps I could use a precious vial of virumor, that would do the trick.

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If you were a DWARF my choise would definatly be YOU


Vir, have you been telling the ladies that you are really Viggo Mortensen again? You really need to stop doing that.

My favorite is Gimli, mostly because I felt bad that PJ made him such a dumb clown. And.... um... Dori? The one who kept carrying Bilbo around? I thought he seemed nice.
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Or perhaps I could use a precious vial of virumor, that would do the trick.

Why, it was miruvor, but thank you... there's plenty of Virumor for everyone..

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Vir, have you been telling the ladies that you are really Viggo Mortensen again? You really need to stop doing that.

No, I keep telling them the truth, that I am most alike to Gríma Wormtongue, yet they still come to me in packs...

Tis verily true that women like 'bad boys'. Why do you think Rasputin was that popular in his heyday, eh?

My favourite Dwarf is not Gimli, for I find his infatuation with Galadriel a bit too hard to stomach. If I really have to choose, I shall go for Daín Stonehelm.

P.S. : women actually find Viggo Mortensen attractive?! Oh dear... oh dearie me!

P.P.S. : Viggo Mortensen???!!
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P.S. : women actually find Viggo Mortensen attractive?! Oh dear... oh dearie me!

Of course ...Specially when he is the character of Aragorn..STRIDER AAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh........I would been afraid having him around ..but then again Vir ..you make me laugh and also irritated sometimes ..just like dear GimliSmile Smilie
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P.P.S. : Viggo Mortensen???!!

I was going to write Orlando Bloom, but I figured these ladies had a finer taste in men. And he is indeed attractive! Very attractive! ...when his hair is clean that is.
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And he is indeed attractive! Very attractive! ...when his hair is clean that is.

That's due to what Rangers do... lying around in putrid sloughs and behind ivy infested fences... I am quite sure though that the lovely Queen Evenstar had set our uxorious King Elessar on the path of hygiene.

I reckon though that Aragorn might have found the Path of Marriage particularly more challenging than the Paths of the Dead..

For didn't some wise man named Socrates say : "I advise to you all to get married; if you have a good wife, you'll be happy; if not, then you'll become a philosopher." Orc Grinning Smilie
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I was going to write Orlando Bloom, but I figured these ladies had a finer taste in men. And he is indeed attractive! Very attractive! ...when his hair is clean that is.

Noooo; Amarié..I find him to be such a pretty boy. I think Strider is a MAN !!
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Tis verily true that women like 'bad boys'. Why do you think Rasputin was that popular in his heyday, eh?


That's only the 'bad girls' who like the 'bad boys'.

I'd have had 400 posts by now, except the cable company turned off our cable for two days, preventing me from getting on.
In my opinion, which is nothing really, but I think the reason that Gimli got to go oversea had nothing to do with Legolas and everything to do with himself. He , it was pointed out by Galadriel, was wondrous in good manners and speech and thought and behaviour and he showed himself to be so different in some respects from the dwarves they had known-he was not grasping and besotted with wealth and all that, he also esteemed what the elves considered to be higher things. And the fact that the only thing he asked for were the three strands of h er golden hair, to encase and memorialize forever truly touched her heart. Through his stories of her which h e obviously told to all who would hear, even those in parts of Middle-Earth that knew next to nothing about the Elves from Lothlorien could be enchanted and think highly of her and in their own way revere her and in turn tell others. So that I think was his reward.It was merely an added bonus that Legolas loved him dearly and would not be parted with his friend.

My favorite dwarves were the two youngest of the party, Fili and Kili.  Being the youngest and most spry, they were often chosen for the grunt jobs.  They were the ones asked to climb down the side of the Lonely Mountain to fetch poor Bombur and the supplies as Smaug was beginning his big temper tantrum.  Gotta admire their spunk!

As I said on another thread my entire family is reading The Hobbit each evening and have been for nearly two weeks now. We only read about four or five pages, no time for more, but reading it leisurely and discussing it from all points of view has made this reading of The Hobbit far more intense and real to me.

As for the dwarves I like all of them, but I think I like Dwalin the best. He is usually the look out and he touched my heart last night during the reading. We read the section where little Bilbo figured out, by watching the thrush smashing and eating snails, how to get that mysterious little door open. Afterwards, when it was decided that Bilbo must go and investigate and get right up to the dragon, the only one, including the great Thorin Oakenshield that would agree to walk even a tiny way down the corridor to the dragon's lair with the hobbit was Dwalin. The author wrote that Dwalin had become ' fond of him.' I like that a great deal.

Bombur is the best dwarf EVER!!!!!!!

In Hobbit cartoon where Bombur dies (unlike in the book) I cried for hours.....

I have to agree, Bombur was fabulous. He is one of the other Dwarves who for me as a child really made himself known and felt. I suppose he is who I could identify with as a child and so he has retained my affections always.

You are endearing, both of you and it made me feel like crying just reading that you cried for that long. That is passion indeed over a subject  and make no mistake.

I think as a child I like Thorin the most as he represented a father figure to the other dwarves and even took on an 'adopted' father role to Bilbo. I would always be Thorin in my imagined games in my middle earth(the woods next to my house).

As an adult though I i think I actually emphasize most with Bombur as he taken at face value only seems to love gold and food, but deep down now represents to me the most adult of concerns about 'where is the next meal coming from' (we've all been here at some time or another I am sure) and presents a more jaded view of adventure that many 'grown-ups' adopt in later life laugh.

I have always found Tolkien's dwarves fascinating due to the shear lack of any real cohesion to their story, this I feel in part is an intentional over site of Tolkien in creating his fantasy world in order to give it the feel of 'missing' or 'lost' parts so common in more traditional mythology. I feel the mystery surrounding the Dwarves adds some of the magic that makes them such a captivating race.

The discussion about what happens to the dwarves after they die and the conundrum of Legolas's and Gimli's journey to Valinor I have found fascinating but I will need to re-read to appropriate text before I could properly contribute other than saying this could be an example for my above comment about the 'missing parts' adding some mystery.

p.s. This is my first real post on PT so go easy on me with the replies cheeky

My fav is Dain Iron foot. Dain and his people could have rushed in and attacked the Elves of Mirkwood and the Men of The Lake however they thank goodness acted with honour and waited on the truth of the situation at the lonely Mountain. Also the jury is out on the Elves and invited mortals returning to the West. I for one find no evidence that Valinor was off limits to the returning Noldor. Once forgiven for there ancient downfall, I believe that the Valar would not withhold Valinor from the Noldor. It would go against all that the Valar stand for to not forgive wholeheartedly.

My favorite dwarves would either be Balin or Dwalin. So hard to choose though. Magnificent and noble both.

I grew to love the entire company of dwarves from The Hobbit, I too felt Thorin was a father figure and loved him, the 'boys' also. .But Bombur rather stole my heart. I think he was much deeper than even his fellows knew. And of course as i said before I love Gimli. I often have thought about his papa as well he must have been quite a fellow.

Gimli.Maybe the only dwarf who was friends with an elf wich makes him a little more special than any other Tolkien dwarf. One the other hand Dwalin and Balin are good to because the are funny when they are together, Balin's the wise the smart and dwalin the strong. Although all Tolkien's dwarfs are great these are just a little more better.

Now that the film has been absorbed I have to say the I loved Balin. I know he is meant to be the same age "roughly" as Thorin but I just loved his speeches regarding the greatness of Thorin. And to think when all is done in The Hobbit, he leads a group back to Moria and tries to reclaim the ancient kingdom facing Goblins, The Watcher and ultimately The Balrog setting the scene for The Fellowships penultimate travels through the mines.
Now that the film has been absorbed I have to say the I loved Balin. I know he is meant to be the same age "roughly" as Thorin but I just loved his speeches regarding the greatness of Thorin. And to think when all is done in The Hobbit, he leads a group back to Moria and tries to reclaim the ancient kingdom facing Goblins, The Watcher and ultimately The Balrog setting the scene for The Fellowships penultimate travels through the mines.

iv always liked mim. i feel so sorry for him, the last of his kind just trying to stay out of the affairs of the world only to get caught up in the affairs on turin .

sure he may have betrayed them but they had it coming to them imo

Thorin makes me think about real life. His life is the story of many who wants to recover their family goods, not for the value of those things but for the name or  blood meaning. Our roots are so important, all we are is most due to what we have received from previous generations and Thorin is a good example. Specially at the end, when he forgets pride and shows gratitude. For me, this lesson Tolkien wrote, it's great. No matter the point you are standing, the most important is to be honest. You have always a chance to show your honest feelings and it's in your hand to expose them or not.

Gimli has learnt to live-fight-cry-celebrate with an elf, what at the beginning was impossible for him. Later he accepts that ain't that bad and enjoy this friendship. Simply lovely.

Gimli all the way! indecision

}:]>

Welcome to PT Lord perugeGlad we agree on Gimli Smile Smilie Enjoy your time here   

Tricky, tricky.

Gimli is the obvious choice, isn't he? I think what tips it in his favour (for me, finally) is Galadriel's Gift to him. That he, one of Durin's Folk, was found worthy when the likes of Fëanor were not.

Dwarves: 1

House of Fëanor: 0

Dain Ironfoot is another - I think out of all Dwarves he represents some/if not all their best aspects, plus he gets a fantastic ending as well. I loved that piece about him... was it in the Unfinished Tales? How he met his end and how Gandalf reflects on that with no short amount of admiration.

 

I vote Gimli as well:

For all the reasons above plus I love how he stayed with Aragorn till the end of his life and did great things for Gondor. The only Dwarf to sail into the west  

i like Kili the best, though i wish he had a  bit more of a beard..

well, that didn't seem very serious. sorry. 

THORIN, KILI, FILI, BOFUR, AND BALIN..

Who wouldnt love Balin? I like how he ends his sentence to most with 'laddie' he soooo adorible.

Kili: You must be Mr. Boggins...

Hehhehe, BOGGINS.

Dwalin,so badass

dwalin is my favourite dwarf

he is bald with tattoos on hi head,check that dwarvish tatoos

Welcome Amras. I think I accidentally deleted a PM from you, but that's because I am so used to deleting Mithril messages I hit the delete icon too quickly. Again.

Anyway in a text called 'Notes on Chronology of Durin's Line' published in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, The Making of Appendix A, Tolkien actually wrote that Dwarves did not go bald...

... but Jackson fans may argue that perhaps Tolkien rejected the idea, since some of the information here was preserved for the final version of Appendix A.

I think the reason Jackson used baldness is probably to distinguish certain Dwarves visually, and with respect to employing baldness, but not to other things he did in the name of distinguishing some of his 'Dwarves', I certainly have no problem with this.

too bad,baldness makes them cooler,oh  can i message you sometime

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