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Hmm. Can't remember - although I do recall reading an article about that before. Let me see if I can dig it up.
In Chapter 7..."Queer Lodgings"...
Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came . Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the wrold, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the last is the true tale. he is not the sort of person to ask questions of....
...he keeps cattle and horses which are nearly as marvelous as himself. They work for him and talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does he hunt or eat wil animal. he keep hives and hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and wide.
I swear I remember somewhere someone saying something about him being the last of his species, but I can't find it...
I remember we ran this up the flag pole in one of our previous incarnations, but don't remember how it came out. I think there was someone in the Silmarillion who I suggested Beorn was descended from, but that was pooh-poohed, being merely a simularity in names.
Ta Chika, I knew I read it somewhere too, but I don't have The Hobbit here, and I wasn't sure at all.
Is he not a bit like the Ents, being alone, living next to (or in) a queer forest, being the last of his species (???)
Yeah, we did say you were very wrong grondy!
I think he's one of those things that just doesn't fit into the big picture (lot of it in The Hobbit) cos it was never originally intended to be a chronicle of Middle Earth, merely a nice little story.
Maybe. But maybe that's why I liked the hobbit so much I started reading LOTR, only to find out it was much different, but yet just as good (a lot better, if I'm honest).
I liked Beorn. He's really cuddly.
Lotr is SOOOOOO much better it's unbelievable. And Beorn ain't that cuddly, he could take your head off with one swipe!
NOOOO! You just spoiled my illusion!!!
No, really. I know, but he's a nice cuddly character. With all these mysterious things around him, and he has a funny character too. And as I was trying to say: LOTR is indeed a great lot better than "hobbit", but once you have read the hobbit, you want to read more. So wadda you do? You read LOTR. To find out it's 10 times better.
I think so. Beorn's descendants were skin changers too, but since I still haven't received my books back, I can't quote from the Appendices. Anyone?
[Edited on 2/1/2002 by Ungoliant]
Right, here's the link to the article
I think no one knows where he came from, but some think that Beorn was the first of his kind, not the last. How did he get his abilities? Dunno, maybe he had Elven blood too?
If he was the first of his kind, why didn't others follow? Or maybe they did, but we don't know that?
They did, Gandalf talks of the Beornings in Lotr somewhere.
I'm afraid that would mean taking a little effort, and I'm still not prepared to go that far. But I reckon you're right. It might be in "The Shadow of the Past" though.
but...if Beorn was the only one of his kind...how'd he get kids?
I s'pose he had a human girlfriend for the daytime, and went out and humped bears at night! And some of the DNA got through to create slightly weaker versions of himself. Nice work if you can get it.
I think he just became the head of the human settlers between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood and their decendents took the name Beornings. I don't think he ever had any children, let alone any skin-changing ones.
Feel free to discuss it though, as I haven't anything to go on except the Fourth Age was "The Age of Man' and a skin-changer just isn't a man, it is a bear/man, an ursanthrope, which may be mis-spelled if not completly wrong.
I think Tolkien said somewhere that Beorn's descendants were skin-changers. Don't have written proof in front of me though - I think it's in the Letters thingy. Feel free to prove me wrong.
I agree entirely with Ungoliant for once.
(little modest understated WOO-HOO for my 400th post)
yeah he did have children... but the 4th age was of men but the beornings could have died out don't they?? coz there were still some amount of dwarfs, hobbits, ents at the beginning of the 4th age is changelings wouldn't be inconcistend with the idea of the 4th age would it?
Indeed not. That is very concurrent with the beginning of the fourth age, and they could just be very secretive like Hobbits are these days.
Said the Skwerl in the past: It is not real! It is only a story! Get over it! How many times do I need to remind you of this?
Actually, here's one way he says it:
posted on 3/1/2002 at 16:59
... As i often sem to say round here, It's only a book, it's not real or anything
[Edited on 4/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
I think thats the first time I've said it on this shiny new forum as well. Tends to be a last resort when I can't find a way to win an argument though
And I've never had my own words used to such great effect against me before either!
lol! Good one, Grondy!
But you're saying Beorn is dead or what? sob
Course he was! There were nearly 80 years between the events of the Hobbit and the Lotr, and he only had a man's life span!
Maybe, then again maybe not. Beorn was a skinchanger, you never seem to find out a lot about him, so who's to say his lifespan isn't longer than a humans, he could even be immortal...wow, I'm acctualy making sence for once
Hurray! I hope Halo's right!
Maybe he's Wormtongue or even an eagle in disguise...
He's dead alright! Don't you lot start getting like Sauron is with Sauron on me!
No he's not! I'm convinced that somehow Beorn is still alive.
Oh lordy! Not a-****ing-gain!
*Grondy considers applying padlock to end all discussion on this aspect of topic*
*Grondy thinks better of it and goes looking for a better place to apply the tools of his trade*
[Edited on 7/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Well, some people do think that he had Elven blood - that's how he got the skin-changing ability. And he probably lived longer than most men *, so don't feel too bad.
* New Beorn disclaimer:- "but he's dead, Jim."[Edited on 8/1/2002 by Ungoliant]
Go on, padlock it Grondy, and stop the mad people from running amok. (She thinks Elves are real for ****'s sake!)
I used to imagine Beorn as a nice, bearded old man. Until I saw Ian Botham...that's who I think of now when I try to imagine what Beorn musta looked like.
What? Grondy doesn't know who Ian Botham is, my he has led a sheltered life.
There, I've saved Tommy the trouble, except she probably know, but I don't.
oh...empiricism...I see...I don't really agree...but that's off topic, so I won't go into it (look Grondy I'm behaving!
When I was a kid, there was this illustration of David and Goliath in my CCD text...I kind of always pictured Beorn as a nicer version of Goliath...there's some actor guy that reminds me of him, but the name just won't come out of my head...I'll get back to you all when it turns up
Never thought of him as Ian Botham! Mike Gatting perhaps, but never Botham (who is a legendary English Cricketer Grondy, who saved the Ashes series for us way back in the 80s)
Who the **** is Ian Botham? Never heard of him. Never saw him either. So I wouldn't know.
What's wrong with believing in Elves? You must believe in something, and I happen to believe in Elves and Wizards.
Old English cricketer. Plastic said legendary, but I didn't remember such kind words written about him in the early '80s. I saw him once, and thought, "Hmm, he looks like a bear." So he became Beorn.
Gatting was more like a dwarf - too gloomy looking. I think David Gower would have made an excellent Elf. And Derek Randall would have been a Hobbit. Bob Willis - Bombadil, for sure.
There's nothing wrong with believing in Elves, Tommy. It's just that they're not real - after all, nobody's seen one. Have you? :P
It's only me who says legendary I'm afraid Golly. That Ashes series had a profound effect on the young Skwerl. The later drug offences kind of got rid of his glittering carrer. And as they say Tommy, seeing is believing, so have you seen any?
I believe in absolutely nothing anymore. Must make me a nihilist eh?
so you believe in nothing...but seeing is believing...so are you blind?
Impeccable logic I must say!
But it isn't necessary to believe in tables and beer and floors and stuff. They just are. You believe in mystical crap like crystals, or religions and suchlike, which I have never seen any evidence for ever.
No, that were the dwarves. They are portrayed lots of times as little friendly helpers that come out at night and do all the jobs men left unfinished.
Not the elves. So your posts don't make sense anymore. :P
Golly: I'm just happy to find my two pairs of shoes in the morning where I left them in the evening.
Over on my side of The Pond the story is called 'The Shoemaker and the Elves' Tommy'. Dwarves are more into mining and metal working than cobblering.
I don't remember if it the story is by the Brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson (or sen), or from one of the Colored Fairy Tale Books (as in Green, Red, Blue, etc.) .
It's the Brothers Grimm Grond.
And if any of you out there, have elves secretly keeping your business going, for Heaven's sake don't go thanking them, else they'll invite dwarves in with their big seldge hammers and wreck the darn place.
Found sth on Beorn: In FotR, Book I, p 245.
Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, SON of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither Orc nor Wolf dared to go.
Beorn had a son? This doesn't go with all our speculations, does it? Another JRR-surprise?
That settles it then. We have proof of Beorns decendents, but not of his ancestors. So I say he's the first of his kind!
Thanks Tommy, well done. I see you're re-reading FotR again?
Yupyup. Indeed. And I notice many things now I didn't notice last time.
Like this one. No ancestors? Then where did he come from? And where did he get his son from? Many questions left unanswered still...
Maybe you should have a little talk with your parents Tommy....
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Think about it: Beorn has a son. But no wife? Or no female kinds of his species are mentioned anyway. Question remains: where does this son come from? Out of the blue?