Thread: Gandalf & the Ring
I like the "Curiousity" theory Ringfacwen. That can also account for why Pippin was so eager to find out what the Palantir was. It's Sauron who exerts and exploits the interests of weaker minds.
Gandalfs ring was Nenya right?
It's strange, my friend and i were arguing this passage yesterday. She still thinks that Gandalf didn't in fact "touch" the ring but rather, he handled it with something else. If it's a matter of possession and handling, then it's a big difference.
I think it's just a case of the difference between handling the ring for a short period, and being given possession of the ring.
Gandalf perhaps felt safe enough just examining the ring for this short period, believing his own strength and his love for Frodo would keep him from any harm during such a brief handling.
Offered the prospect of owning the ring, however, when the temptation over time to use it would become too great to resist, was another matter. Gandalf knew over time it would corrupt even him, and so refused guardianship of it.
I think the temptation to use the ring is also a key factor here. By examining the ring, Gandalf had no temptation to use its powers. I think it's through using these powers that the ring gains a stronger control over its wielder.
Well first of all, Gandalf wasn`t sure that it was the one ring and if he has it then it can do powerful things, once he`d found that out he didn`t want to have it because of what he knew.
The Ring has influence over people without it being in their possession and with the knowledge that Gandalf had, he was pretty sure it was the Ring, before throwing into the fire.
Gandalf also had a Ring of Power and they could feel/sense each other. (Celebrimbor was aware of him and that's why he hid the three.) So wouldn't Gandalf holding the Ring even for a brief moment be noticeable to him?
Just some more questions.
I think that Gandalf was more cautious than Celebrimbor and so was not revealed to Sauron. When Celebrimbor put on his Ring, he did not know of Saurons treachery so was not trying to conceal himself at all.
Well, Gandalf actually KNEW that the ring was the one, as he says after throwing it in the fire, he just wanted to show it to Frodo. And he refused the ring after that because he could fell under the power of the ring and it's attraction, as (Spoiler) Saruman did.
Well then celtavhc, then I have to ask why wasn't Gandlf affected/effected when Frodo gave it to him the first time.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts on this are. I'm just trying to justify it to myself and want as many opinions as I can get. Thanks
I have to admit that I am leaning more towards Perwing's point of view.
I beginning to think that Gandalf was tempted when he took the Ring, but had enough will power/strength to throw it in the fire. He only had the Ring for a brief moment and was not as influenced by it.
But I'm wondering if this is just one of those Tolkien questions that we won't find a diffinitive answer to.
Just some more of my thoughts.
Now I admit that you're TOTALLY right, McDLT! There are MANY questions that only Tolkien could answer us... I think we should "use" Christopher (sorry for the word) as long as we can before he goes too...
Have anybody heard of the death of John???
[Editado em 17/4/03 por celtavhc]
One of my friends have suggested that it could be a difference between using the Ring and not using it. Kind of similar to what Val was saying.
Frodo was in possession of it, but as far as I can recollect, never used it till his journey. And about the only thing that happened to him was the appearance of not aging.
So with Gandalf holding the Ring and not actually putting it on, might make some sense.
Now, I'm beginning to wonder if Gandalf struggled with the Ring in that brief moment. Just an add-on to orginal thoughts.
Yes, uruk_slayer, I agree. Handling and Possession very big difference in this case.
Does anyone know if you had to actually handle the Ring (touch it, wear it) or if you could just have it in possession? Or was it a matter of using it too?
Maybe Frodo did wear it occassionally, does anyone know?
I thought this could have easily been answered but it's just given me more questions.
Well the ring had an influence on Boromir and I don't think he ever actually touched it in the book. That he did in the movie was just one of PJ's contrivances to show Boromir was starting to covet the ring.
Hey Grond - I never thought of that before.
Then that brings up another question - Was it because the Ring was "awakened" that Boromir was affected? After Bilbo had found the Ring, I never noticed if any of dwarves were affected. But I do remember that Merry had seen Bilbo use the Ring and became curious about it (LotR: FotR, Book 1, Chapter 5).
Wow even more questions.
I think you're right Ringfacwen. It had much to do with one's preconception of the Ring. Gandalf percieved the Ring for what it was... a threat... pure, unadulterated evil. Taking it long enough to throw it into the fire wasn't long enough to change that. But had he held on to it... taken possession of it as Frodo wanted him to, it eventually would have consumed him... perhaps by nothing more than complacency on his part.
Boromir on the other hand, thought of it merely as a great weapon. He believed it could be controlled. Perhaps it's not so much the will of the Ring as the will of the person that covets or posesses it. Gandalf, Frodo and Aragorn, among others, feared the Ring... Boromir didn't and so he was very easily taken by it... even without ever having handled it.
I've also been looking at some other things regarding the Ring. I noticed though that Tom Bombadil did not fear the Ring nor did he want to weild it as a weapon or use it for any purpose. He treated it much like a trinket.
I also think that Gandalf was tempted to use the Ring, that's why he so adamantly refuses it. Gandalf wanted to use the Ring for good, to clean up much of what he thought was wrong, and to protect the weak. But eventually the Ring would change him and Gandalf would turn more into a dictator than a benevolent ruler.
Does anyone else think Gandalf was tempted by the Ring?
I think Gandalf was very much tempted by the ring, McDLT. That is why he was so afraid of it. He was horrified by the idea that he might become the Dark Lord.
If I remember well, PJ solved this rather clever in the movie. I remember Gandalf bending over the ring and streching out his hand to pick it up after Bilbo left. But at that very moment a vision of Sauron's eye appears and Gandalf redraws his hand. It is Frodo who picks up the ring and put it in the envelop. Afterwards Gandalf throws the envelop in the fire, and not just the ring. This shows PJ also believed Gandalf was tempted by the ring.
Well gnampie, I don't believe PJ solved it all that well. I think it might have been better to have shown it and somehow show Gandalf's struggle for the brief moment that he had the Ring, rather than avoid it all together.
It's just so hard for the Movies to do such a work justice. (But don't get me wrong I think the movies are good, just not great.) But my movie thoughts are for another thread.
Yes that is the rings...I forgot but you refreshed my memory Perwing