Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Cirith Ungol

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Lord of the Rings > Cirith Ungol   
Beleg Strongbow began this thread with the following post.

Quote:
Cirith Ungol in Sindarin means 'pass of the spider' or, more literally, 'spider pass.' Now why would Frodo (who knew elvish, at least to some degree--I think it safe to assume that he had heard ungol before) travel into something called Pass of the Spider? Did he know what awaited him?


Peredhil replied

Frodo probably thought it was oly a name, and bore no real significance. I would probably do the same.

Oh well, he also knew that Minas Morgul = tower of sorcery and that Orodruin = Mount Doom and that didn't prevent him neither to pass/go to it.

One evil thing more or less, who cares ? Big Laugh Smilie
No, he didn't know what awaited him when they climbed that pass or entered that foul smelling tunnel. Faramir had tried to warn him, but he had to go that way or give up the quest: There was no other way.
Quick Thought: If Frodo had known what awaited him, do you think he would have turned back and find another way? Question Smilie
That was the ONLY way therfore he must have had to try it anyway. Though at least in this case he would know what to excpect.
Would Samwise have known about 'Spider Pass?' If he didn't know right off the bat what it meant, would Frodo have told him?
Cirith Ungol....yeah I can see the connectionBig Smile Smilie
Quote:
Cirith Ungol in Sindarin means 'pass of the spider' or, more literally, 'spider pass.' Now why would Frodo (who knew elvish, at least to some degree--I think it safe to assume that he had heard ungol before) travel into something called Pass of the Spider? Did he know what awaited him?
I just thought of another reason why Frodo would dare travel through a spider infested pass. He was carrying 'Sting, the bane of the Mirkwood spiders'.
Quote:
'If Uncle Bilbo could stand up to spiders, by golly, so can I.'

- this undocumented statement by Frodo, most probably can be attributed to one Grondmaster of Planet-Tolkien.com
I think he can be forgiven for misjudging the size and number of the eight-legged critters.

[Edited on 2/6/2003 by Grondmaster]
Hehehe yeah.....well Sam was brave and valiant enough to give Old Lobby her banewoundTongue Smilie Wink Smilie
I hear you on that one! He really gave her something to think about. It would have been cool if she had died. (Not that death is ever something to call 'cool,' but, come on, she's just evil... Very Evil Smilie )

Poor Sam, to be completely honest I almost cried Very Sad Smilie when he thought Frodo died. ( sigh )

That quote "don't go where your Sam can't follow" is one of my favorites!!!! Anyway...



Very Sad Smilie I know what you mean guys.....but he sure indeed was Old Lobbyīs bane!!
But if you think about it, Frodo's 'death' was actually good, because it meant that Sam had the ring for a while, and therefore was ringbearer, in which case he got to go to Valinor (eventually). Which meant he was with Frodo int the long run!!! (don't you just love syllogisms! Big Smile Smilie )

I always like the Valinor part, because it gave Sam recumpense for Gollum's tricks he had to endure: Sam got to see Valinor Birthday Smile Smilie , but all Gollum saw was the inside of Mount Doom!!! Jumping Flame Smilie


[Edited on 4/6/2003 by Beleg_Strongbow]
Yeah and think about how valiant and brave Sam was for taking the Ring that he saw was about to destroy his master! And to fight off Old Lobby!! Sam is both Frodoīs and my heroBig Smile SmilieBig Smile Smilie
Quote:
Would Samwise have known about 'Spider Pass?' If he didn't know right off the bat what it meant, would Frodo have told him?


I believe Frodo would have been a more accomplished Sindarin loremaster then Sam, I don't even know if Sam knew Sindarin (Certianly not Quenya) at the time, though Faramir doubtless, knew what it meant, since he was of the Gondorian aristoracy and I think it is probable that Frod would have too.

I belive that he may have thought it was a fabled name or a 'name of legends', the Gondorians may have encountered spiders there before or maybe Anarion or the Last Alliaince ecnountered giant spiders and that there was no spider/s there anymore.
Make sense Findekano!
WHAT???
I'm pretty sure that Aule meant there to be an "s" in there, as in "makes sense Findekano" meaning that he is in agreement with you (he often is I've found). Either that or he is unable to read more than three lines without getting confused Wink Smilie which is not the case with our Aule, I don't think. I don't think any offence is intended, or am I wrong Aule?
No you are correct my little squirrelTongue Smilie

Findekano I meant "Makes sense Findekano" not "Make sense Findekano".....sorry for the missing 'S'

But hey Plastic I do not ALWAYS agreeTongue Smilie I can become evil you knowWink Smilie
Very Evil Smilie
Quote:
But hey Plastic I do not ALWAYS agree I can become evil you know


Well don't. At least not to me, I'm a nice guy, I stick up for you, honestly, you try and do a little good for once.... Wink Smilie
Yeh theres only room for so many of us evil ones around here!

*Points at the Squirrel whilst turning his head away*
Quote:
That was the ONLY way therfore he must have had to try it anyway. Though at least in this case he would know what to excpect
He could have gone round the back way, causing the destruction of Gondor and the poncy Aragorn.
Quote:
He could have gone round the back way, causing the destruction of Gondor and the poncy Aragorn.


Yes and they would have starved if they had gone all the way round....
Quote:
Yes and they would have starved if they had gone all the way round....
No they wouldn't, thats were Mordor grows it's food!
Hmm i think when they entered Mordor, THEY were the food :P
I hear you on that one, virumor.

If they went into Mordor the back way, they would have missed their perfect timing for the battle at Morannon. Besides, Tolkien never really gave us a clear picture (at least none that I've ever read) of what the 'backway' to Mordor looked like--Shelob might have been better than what they would have found there!
That area around the Eastern entrance to Mordor was home to the Variags, a particularly nasty race of Easterling horsemen. Had this way been that much easier, I think Gil-Galad and Elendil would have used it at the end of the Second Age.
Quote:
Cirith Ungol in Sindarin means 'pass of the spider' or, more literally, 'spider pass.' Now why would Frodo (who knew elvish, at least to some degree--I think it safe to assume that he had heard ungol before) travel into something called Pass of the Spider? Did he know what awaited him?


Faramir tells Frodo not to go, and regarding what he knows about the pass (that makes its name so dreadful) he says 'nothing certain'. Danny Andries once suggested:

Quote:
'Consider this train of thought: "Cirith Ungol?" What a curious name. Why 'the Spider's Pass'? Are there a lot of spiders up there? Or do you have to be able to scale sheer cliffs like a spider? Or maybe if you attempt to cross you're caught as if in a spider's web? Or are there rocks or trees that resemble spiders? Or is there a maze of passages radiating out from a central point like a huge web?" So, Faramir could have very well understood what 'Cirith Ungol' meant without knowing precisely why it bore that name.' D. Daniel AndriŽs


It's possible the name did not have anything to do with specifically revealing the 'Dark Terror' referred to (as far as some knew anyway).
Even if Frodo had known that a humongous spider was lurking there, taking that path was the only option to reach Mt Doom in any reasonable time.

Besides, how big could a giant spider be? Certainly not bigger than the largest pup-dog, Of course he knew from Bilbo's tale the size of the Mirkwood spiders, but he had yet to read about J.K. Rowling's Aragog, so he had no Idea as to the actual size of Shelob. And he knew Ungolient was merely an Elven myth whose size grew in the all the retellings of the tale to frighten the little elfkins. Teacher Smilie
I live in the county of Los Angeles and even though I know that means "the angels", you don't take it that when you travel to LA you're going to literally encounter angels anymore than you would anywhere else. Similarly if I were told "this is spider's pass we're hiking through" I wouldn't think anything more of it than perhaps to speculate in the way above "gee, I wonder why it's named that..." -- Never in wildest imagination would I think it meant "here dwells a giant spider-monster who's stench is legendary and whose size rivals the size of small living room and whose prey is orcs and other similarly sized creatures instead of flys and the like"