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Thread: A vain guess...

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Well, as for Legolas, it is written somewhere that he and Gimli travels around M-E, going through Fangorn and to the glittery caves, then they build a boat and sail to the undying lands, but it says nowhere whether or not they acctually reaches the shores of Aman. I hope they do, though. Even if Legolas is not one of the high elves (or am I wrong here? Is he not one of the Laiquendi?) I bet he really wanted to go to Aman. Once he heard the seagulls he had a constant longing for the ocean. Perhaps he just found himself a nice little island on which he could see and live with the ocean all of his life. As for Gimli he would probably die when his time came. I think Gimli and Legolas were together to the end of Gimli's days. I think their friendship was much deeper than properly described in the book. Just the fact that they both left their lives in M-E with all they had treasured so much up until then, the trees, the animals, their family, the caves etc, to go to Aman together, it indicates a deep (and friendly kind of) love. Smile Smilie

As for Frodo, I read a discussion here somewhere where someone said that he and the other mortals that went to Aman would probably not become immortal, but die after a while. The only difference would be that they could find happiness and love for life again in Aman, something they could not find in M-E.
I don't think Frodo regrets he leaves M-E. He stayed there one year after the War of the Ring and he was probably constantly longing for the Ring. When he went to Aman he could shake all of that off him. Perhaps he missed Sam, but somewhere in the back of my head, I don't know from where, I read that Sam, Pippin and Merry went to Aman as well. Also, he had Bilbo with him, and Gandalf. The people he had learned to love was with him, he could live a happy life all his years. If he had stayed in M-E I think those years would have been much much shorter, as the thought of the Ring and the constant longing would have made him fade away. Like Bilbo said after 50 years of carrying the Ring: "I feel thin.. sort of stretched like butter scraped over too much bread". Now he had had the ring while it was still quite passive. Then another 20 years passes and the Ring is starting to wake up. Imagine having it during the one year it is as most active, when it is struggling to get back to its master, deceiving every person who holds it and using all its massive power on the bearer's mind 24/7. That can tear the strongest mind into pieces.
I found that the following two years in march (which is when I think the ring was destroyed) Frodo gets ill. The first time he says: "It is gone now", referring to the Ring. I think that by coming to Aman he can also put that aside and just get to enjoy life for what it's truly worth; The love to your family and friends.

The reason to why there is nothing really written down about this is probably that there isn't really anything to make a story about. They recieved the grace of the Valar and went to Aman where they lived a quiet but happy life amongst those they loved.

[Edited on 23/9/2003 by Airecristiel]
In the lotr appendices it's said a bit what's happened after the third age, like that Sam becomes mayor etc etc
As Virumor mentioned, you can find out a lot of stuff that happened in the 4th age after the War of the Ring in the appendices of ROTK pages 418-420. The following is just a general postBody to anyone who hasnít read the appendices in ROTK, READ THE APPENDICES PEOPLE!

Iím not trying to single anyone out, but Iím constantly amazed by the amount of people I know who have read ROTK, but have never even bothered to read the appendices. There is a virtual treasure trove of information in the appendices of ROTK that is absolutely essential to the overall history of M. E., and to oneís understanding of the complete story of LOTR. Again, I canít stress it enough, the appendices are a must read!

Now in regards to your specific questions EE, Iíll try to shed some light for you, and Iíll try to be as brief as I can. First off, Sam does eventually go to the Havens, and then to Aman (last of the Ring-bearers). This happens in the year 1482 of the 4th age after Rose dies. Secondly, Legolas and Gimli also go to Aman after the death of King Elessar in 1541. Legolas built a ship, and off they went. Gimli was the only dwarf ever allowed into the Undying Lands, and it is said that Galadriel herself secured this favor for him. Merry and Pippen did not go to Aman. They died in Gondor somtime after 1484 of the 4th age.

In regards to your question about Frodo, I personally donít think he ever regretted his decision to go to Aman. In fact, he knew that was the only thing he could do. He certainly knew that he couldnít stay in the Shire, or anywhere else on M.E. for that matter. Frodo was damaged physically, mentally, and spiritually. The only way he was ever going to be healed, and to ever find peace was to go to Aman, and he knew it. By then, Frodo understood that was his fate, and he knew that his place was with the rest of the Ring-bearers. Hope that helps!
Elf Winking Smilie

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Iím not trying to single anyone out, but Iím constantly amazed by the amount of people I know who have read ROTK, but have never even bothered to read the appendices.
Unfortunately, not all copies of LotR have appendices, which is a shame because as Elfstone pointed out, they are a treasure trove of information. I think many of the versions in which the three books are contained in a single volume omit them to save space.

EvithianEhtmire, you didn't mention Arwen in your question. In case you did not know, after the death of Aragorn she returns to Lorien. The fair woods are deserted, however, so after a short time alone, Arwen lies down on Tol Amroth (the hill upon which she and Aragorn had first met) and dies of a broken heart.


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Sam does eventually go to the Havens, and then to Aman (last of the Ring-bearers). This happens in the year 1482 of the 4th age after Rose dies.
Lets not forget that he and Rose also managed to single-handedly re-populate the Shire with their 13 children.
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As for Frodo, I read a discussion here somewhere where someone said that he and the other mortals that went to Aman would probably not become immortal, but die after a while.
Yes, this is true, Aire. It was beyond the power of the Valar to take away the Gift of Men. It must not be forgotten that death was a Gift given to mortals by Eru. Although immortality probably sounds nice, death was supposed to be better. In the Undying Lands, wounds and pains would be healed, however, and mental scars would fade to a distant memory. Mortals would live out their days with health and vitality, but would still be mortal. Still, it sounds a great place to retire to.

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Unfortunately, not all copies of LotR have appendices, which is a shame because as Elfstone pointed out, they are a treasure trove of information. I think many of the versions in which the three books are contained in a single volume omit them to save space.

Yes, this is why I haven't read the appendices. I really want to read them though, does anyone have any tip of where I could find them?
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does anyone have any tip of where I could find them?
The only thing I can suggest is buy or borrow a copy of the RotK from a version printed in three separate volumes. I'd imagine you could perhaps find them online somewhere, but I've no idea where.
My red leatherette slip-covered single volume has the Appendicies as do all of my three volume versions; however, it may be that some non-English versions three volume versions do not so always check the final pages of RotK to ensure that they are included. Most of you may wish the English version three or four (includes The Hobbit) volume sets eventually anyway.

I recently purchased another four volume boxed paperback set as I have worn out one set used as a reference here on the forum.
My beat up and ancient single volume copy only has the Aragorn/Arwen appendix and the rest are ommitted, but my beautiful Alan Moore illustrated one has the lot (and is very pretty). They're very much in English, I think it's the first single volume copy to have been printed cos it's very old.
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READ THE APPENDICES PEOPLE!



small timid Evithian quietly whispers I have read mostof the appendices. then stares around her bewilrered at how much these people know and feels a bit looked down on. yet i understand what deep passion stirs the upmost corners of their hearts.
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EvithianEhtmire, you didn't mention Arwen in your question. In case you did not know, after the death of Aragorn she returns to Lorien. The fair woods are deserted, however, so after a short time alone, Arwen lies down on Tol Amroth (the hill upon which she and Aragorn had first met) and dies of a broken heart.


WAHH!! so sad!
It truly is sad but it was her choice....sorry ArwenWink Smilie
Yeh, she died on Cerin Amroth after one year of whinin in Lothlorien, unlike in the movies where it is mentioned that she will wander alone forever in the woods or something crappy like that.
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small timid Evithian quietly whispers I have read most of the appendices. then stares around her bewilrered at how much these people know and feels a bit looked down on. yet i understand what deep passion stirs the upmost corners of their hearts.


Donít worry EE, nobody is looking down on you, Iím certainly not. Like I said, when I made that statement, I wasnít trying to single anybody out, and I definitely wasnít trying to be disrespectful towards anyone who hasnít read the appendices. I was merely trying to emphasize to people who havenít read them how critically important they are.

If anything, I was probably talking about most of my own friends who have read ROTK, but have never read the appendices. I also meet people all the time who have read LOTR, but not the appendices. I just feel like some people are missing out, and I donít want people to miss out anything. Looking back at my post now, I realize that I probably came off the wrong way, and I should have been a little clearer about what I was actually trying to say.

PT is here for people to celebrate, and learn more about Tolkien, so please donít ever feel intimidated, or stop asking questions. Personally, I really enjoy talking about Tolkien, and answering questions for people, and trying to pass on whatever I know that can help other people better understand Tolkienís world.

Again, I definitely donít look down on anyone who doesnít know as much as myself, or others. Iím certainly no expert, Iím still learning new things all the time, and I ask a lot of questions myself. I hardly knew anything before I came to PT (I just knew I loved Tolkien), but since Iíve been here Iíve learned soooo much, and you will too. Thatís one of the many things that makes PT so special. Iím extremely passionate, and obsessive when it comes to Tolkiens work, I guess sometimes to a fault.
Orc Sad Smilie

About the Appendices... I know this is copyright infringement but I found a site with almost the entire Appendices text. Shocked Smilie
I don't know if it's legal to post this, but...
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http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:GrSuj2uFPX0J:www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~ozparlak/Private/bbooks/LOTRAppIndex.pdf+Appendices&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Very Evil Smilie

[Edited on 10/17/2003 by Arcormacolindůva]
Well, if they cart you off to Angband for breaking the law we will understand. We will say you gave it all for the betterment of Tolkien Big Laugh Smilie
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About the Appendices... I know this is copyright infringement but I found a site with almost the entire Appendices text.
I don't know if it's legal to post this, but...
It is legal to post the link, it is illegal to have that text on their website IMHO. Were the Tolkien Estate to find that website, their lawyers would be issuing cease and desist notices. Deal Smilie

About six pages are missing from Appendix E as well as all of Appendix F. I didn't look to see if any of the preceeding appendicies were missing.