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Quote:
"And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last."
From 'Return of the King', Book V, at the end of Chapter 4.
One of my favorites, occurs at their last overnight rest on the approach to Shelob's lair, where Sam says:
Quote:
'And people will say: "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!" And they'll say: "Yes, that's one of my favorite stories. Frodo was very brave, wasn't he dad?" "Yes, my boy, the famousest of the hobbits, and that's saying a lot."'
Followed a short time later by Frodo saying:
Quote:
'But you have left out one of the chief characters: Samwise the stout-hearted. "I want to hear more about Sam, dad. Why didn't they put in more of his talk, dad? That's what I like, it makess me laugh. And Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam, would he, dad?"'
Sadly, this part is followed later by Frodo saying:
Quote:
'...You and I, Sam, are still stuck in the worst places of the story, and it is all too likely that some will say at this point: "Shut the book now, dad; we don't want to read any more." "Maybe." said Sam, "but I wouldn't be one to say that. Things done and over and made into part of the great tales are different."'
Happily, the story was finalized on the Field of Cormallen, in the "Lay of Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom". *reading
My favorite part was that frodo sat sail into the west and sam was left behind.. it really set tears to my eye's .... sniff...

And ffcourse it was signalling the end of the story Smile Smilie
Frodo of the nine fingers, immortalised by bloody Glen Yarborough!
The best bit is without doubt the sentence..
"When Mr Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton."
Because it means you've still got the rest of the book to go!
That or Legolas and Gimli doing their head counts, or perhaps Boromir saying "If by my life or death I can aid you, I will."
*Plastic
Cheers Grondy! I knew I could count on you! *drink

Oooh yes! Forgot about the headcount bit! That was nice too. How about the bit when Eowyn slays the Witch King/death of Theoden? That got me blubbering like a baby. *ungoliant
The dark lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made, and the magnitude of his folly was revealed to him, in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.
From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, waivered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and the purpose of the Power that wielded them, was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain, At hs summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom.

- amazing
And then he snuffed it and never came back, amI right, or am I right Sauron?
*Plastic
I wasn't even going to touch this one, but since The Skwerl did, l will add my two cents worth. Big Smile Smilie

See, even Sauron knew it would be curtains forever, were his ring thrown down the tube. Cool Smilie

[Edited on 23/12/2001 by Grondmaster]
well that paragraph gives everyone the assumption that Sauron is most certainly dead, as one small Hobbit who was scared to step out of even the Shire, comes all the way across Middle-Earth to the darkest place ever, to the darkest tower ever, a few hundred metres away from the Darkest Evil Guy ever.....and successfully manages to chuck his ring into the boiling lava thing.
......but as u can see, im still alive and kicking! i will get u, Frodo [he's already dead rite? what happens when they goto the Haven?]

No idea, I expect he's dead though. And I hate to tell you this, but you're not the real Sauron. He's not real!
how can he be dead? he was in the undei-ing realm? (the blessed thingie) even Earendill got eternal live the sail with a silmaril at brough of his ships trhough the void in search for the return of Melkor
Dude, Frodo's dead. Only elves are immortal, so Frodo & Bilbo died eventually. He (Frodo) only sailed to the Blessed Realms (?) to heal his pain. I'm sure I read that somewhere.
None of them were ever alive, they are just characters of literary fiction, as The Skwerl keeps reminding us. We wish they were, just as we wish there was a Santa Claus, Kris Kringle, St. Nicholas, Father Christmas, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, OZ, or whatever. Still we can keep them alive in our hearts and minds, if we remember to come up for a breath of reality every now and then.

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus, you just have to look hard to find him.
hey
just thought id wish u christians out there a merry christmas! i dont really celebrate christmas [im not christian]
anyway, yeah Frodo and everybody else also die...so it's a good aspect actually...
if everyone died, [Gandalf, frodo etc] and IF i died, then i get to torture them all over again in the eternal realm of death!
IF i did not die, then im a shadow of malice forever, and will grow again and torture living ppl!
yay! Sauron - the Dark Lord of Torture
ok, I know Frodo and Sam and all them died, but does Gandalf die ever? Or are wizards special?
Gandalf's a Maia, he's not gonna die without a whole lot of effort (Like it took to kill Sauron). And whadda you mean there's no Great Pumpkin? Next thing you'll be telling me Mr Hankey's not real!
Mr. Hankey, the Christmas poo!
He loves me and I love you!

Brilliant, I was just watching that episode the yesterday! I watch it every Christmas - it's kinda traditional now.

And what do you mean, you get to torture 'em after they die, Sauron? Aren't Maias subject to the Valar's Doom after they die? Or do they simply cease to exist?
I'm thinking Valar's doom.....
What's the Valar's doom? (I still haven't read the Sil...I'll do it eventually, I promise...)
Er, what I meant was the Valar's judgement on what happens to them after they died. Must flick through Silm again later, can't remember what was supposed to happen. I think humans (plus Luthien & Arwen) are supposed to sit in the halls of Mandos when they die & await his judgement at Doomsday. Can't remember what happens to Elves. Or dwarves, for that matter. Sad Smilie
Elves go to Mandos, Humans just die. Dunno about Dwarves, don't think it says anywhere. I think Maia get a similar treatment to Elves, which is how come Gandalf got let back.
My knowledge of the Silmarillion after two readings at least a decade ago, doesn't allow me to postulate on this subject. One of these years, I shall give it another read using a map and geneological tree, so I can keep track of the elven names and thus try to better understand the history and all the whys and wherefores. My guessing here would only add to the confusion. Cool Smilie

[Edited on 27/12/2001 by Grondmaster]
Started reading the Silm (again...) Gonna finish it this time (maybe...)

Found this:

Quote:
Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the Dwarves returned to the earth and the stone of which they were made; yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aule that Maker, whom the call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in ahlls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Iluvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Chidlren in the End.


Not really a definitive answer, but, something.
hey Maias should not the same treatment as Elves.....Maias were next only to the Valar.
yeah so everyone gathers in Mandos, and I get to torture them ..that's what i meant!
I reckon Mandos would expell you into the void with your mate Melkor!
I haven't got the faintest idea of what you guys are talking, but anyway, I thought I'd reply to the topic. Here are two of my favourite parts from LOTR. (I'm still looking to find the other two...)

"When he had overcome Sancho and pushed him out, Frodo collapsed on a chair in the hall. 'It's time to close the shop, Merry,' he said. 'Lock the door, and don't open it to anyone today, not even if they bring a battering-ram.' Then he went to revive himself with a belated cup of tea.
He had hardly sat down, when there came a soft knock on the front-door. 'Lobelia again most likely,' he thought. 'She must have thought of something really nasty, and have come back again to say it. It can wait.'
He went on with his tea. The knock was repeated, much louder, but he took no notice. Suddenly the wizard's head appeared at the window.
'If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill,' he said.
'My dear Gandalf! Half a minute!' cried Frodo, running out of the room to the door. 'Come in! Come in! I thought it was Lobelia.'
'Then I forgive you. But I saw her some time ago, driving a ponytrap towards Bywater with a face that would have curdled new milk.'
'She had already nearly curdled me. //'

From LOTR, The Fellowship of the Ring, BOOK I, Chapter 1, p. 52

I just love Gandalf in this part! I didn't know wizards could be humorous... Wink Smilie

"Suddenly he stopped. There was an answer, or so he thought; but it seemed to come from behind him, away down the path further back in the forest. He turned round and listened, and soon there could be no doubt: someone was singing a song; a deep glad voice was singing carelessly and happily, but it was singing nonsense:
Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!"

From LOTR, The Fellowship of the Ring, BOOK I, Chapter 6, p. 134

You can guess why I chose this, right? Smile Smilie

There are two other parts, one is the fight with the Balrog, and one is the meeting of Merry and Pippin with Treebeard, but I'll add them soon. *reading
Found them!

"The dark figure streaming with fire raced towards them. The orcs yelled and poured over the stone gangways. Then Boromir raised his horn and blew. Loud the challenge rang and bellowed, like the shout of many throats under the cavernous roof. For a moment the orcs quailed and the fiery shadow halted. Then the echoes died as suddenly as a flame blown out by a dark wind, and the enemy advanced again.
'Over the bridge!' cried Gandalf, recalling his strength. 'Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way. Fly!' Aragorn and Boromir did not heed the command, but still held their ground, side by side, behind Gandalf at the far end of the bridge. The others halted just within the doorway at the hall's end, and turned, unable to leave their leader to face the enemy alone.
The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm.
'You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.'
//
With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and it shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizards knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. 'Fly, you fools!' he cried, and was gone."

From LOTR, The Fellowship of the Ring, BOOK II, Chapter 5, p. 348-349

"'Hrum, Hoom,' murmured the voice, a deep voice like a very deep woodwind instrument. 'Very odd indeed! Do not be hasty, that is my motto. But if I had seen you, before I heard your voices - I liked them: nice little voices; they reminded me of something I cannot remember - if I had seen you before I heard you, I should have just trodden on you, taking you for little Orcs, and found out my mistake afterwards. Very odd you are, indeed. Root and twig, very odd.'
Pippin, though still amazed, no longer felt afraid. Under those eyes he felt a curious suspense, but not fear. 'Please,' he said, 'who are you? And what are you?'
A queer look came into the old eyes, a kind of wariness; the deep wells were covered over. 'Hrum, now,' answered the voice; 'well, I am an Ent, or that's what they call me. Yes, Ent is the word. The Ent, I am, you might say, in your manner of speaking. Fangorn is my name according to some, Treebeard others make it. Treebeard will do.'
'An Ent?' said Merry. 'What's that? But what do you call yourself? What's your real name?'
'Hoo now!' replied Treebeard. 'Hoo! Now that would be telling! Not so hasty. And I am doing the asking. You are in my country. What are you, I wonder? I cannot place you. You do not seem to come in the old lists that I learned when I was young. But that was a long, long time ago, and they may have made new lists. Let me see! Let me see! How did it go? //"

From LOTR, The Two Towers, BOOK III, Chapter 4, p. 484-485

These are my favourite parts from LOTR. I find it hard to choose between them, so I thought I'd write them all down. Hope you don't mind
About this part when Boromir blows on his horn they did screw it up in the movie.. It sounded like a cow with a bad cold... not even an earsplitting hoot...
He went on with his tea. The knock was repeated, much louder, but he took no notice. Suddenly the wizards head appeared at the window. "If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill," he said.
Big Smile Smilie I hope they haven't left this bit out of the film. It one of my fave bits!
It gets screwed about with I'm afraid.... But Not Lost!!!
Quote:
"If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill," he said.
Reminded me of the big bad wolf and the three little pigs. Big Smile Smilie
And Tommy's passages about meeting Bombodil and Treebeard are memorable.

[Edited on 29/12/2001 by Grondmaster]
Boring: I agree. It did sound like a *cow.
Halo: They did leave that part out. That's why I quoted it here, cos twas a great disappointment to me not to see it in the film. I would have loved to have seen it! I can hear McKellen say it!
Grond: I think the passages with the meeting of Treebeard and Tommy are very similar. In both cases the hobbits are lost or in trouble, and in both cases they meet a strange character, both with good intentions. And I liked the riddles there...
I had to give back my copy of LOTR to my brother (I 'borrowed' it from him about a year ago). His wife wants to read it. I don't think I'll ever get it back! Sad Smilie
Big Smile Smilie
You really should invest in your own copy then Tommy! It's not that pricey.
I know. Going to the bookshop anyway next week. Smile Smilie
when's your birthday, Tommy? You could con someone into getting the books for you then...
My birthday's on 17 February, but I don't need that to let someone else pay for my books... My brother will be paying this time anyway... Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie
Good job, Tommy! Smile Smilie But make sure he buys you two sets - a pristine copy for the bookshelf (never to be touched) and the other for the bath. That's what I do with my favourite books. Smile Smilie

that's a really good idea...never occured to me...I always end up just reading one copy to dust and then buying another and doing the same thing.
*Grondmaster edited out a bunch above here about who gots credit for buying two copies of the books, and rewarding of Cuddly Badgers, and eating of same*

*Plastic Squirrel continued with:*


You just try eating them...
I'm training them up into my private Badger Army, so's I can set them on any Spiders that want to go around eating our trees. Or mad blokes in pointy hats who try and sing bollocks at us. [Edited on 8/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Gee, eat a tree once and it haunts you forever. Didn't even taste that nice - should have gone for the maples instead.

Singing mad blokes in point hats? Didn't know Gandalf sang.
it seems like everyone in Middle Earth sings a lot...or at least tells poetry.
*rubs head in disbelief once more* Not Gandalf, deary, deary me.....
Well... the maya and valar sang.. to shape the planet (plaque at that time) like the song of eru.. so conjuring spell should be like singing.... coz those spells influence the environment .. and to influence the environment as a maya... you should sing... are am i wrong?

so spells and stuff are like little songs?

[Edited on 3/1/2002 by Boring]
Wow! Talk about getting back on topic again! Yeah, I suppose they are Boring.
Fine, fine, Gandalf sang spells. But who was the first pointy hatted bloke you were talking about?
Bloke in hat, sings bollocks in the woods, has feather in hat, got a bird whose mum is apparently a river.........
Yippee the creation in the Silmarillion - the first pages are magic and sort of outline the whole mythical/esoteric philosophy of Tlkien. I loved it. Very Shiva - from the Void there came the Sound, and then melodies, harmony and the music created form and then then it became more and more complex and beauty was formed and then counter harmonies and dissonance was intorduced and counter points. Fascinating ideas. Much like the use of Chi in Tchanist literature
DONT GET ME WRONG - NO RELIGIOUS OVERTONES FROM ME. NO PROSELYTISM HERE PLEASE Just good reading.
Yeah, i do love that whole Music of the Ainur thing, it's pretty cool. Didn't know about the Chi influence though. But I love the idea of music creating things.
For a moment I thought you were talking about me... Sad Smilie sod it!
*goes off singing quietly to himself*
Wink Smilie
Can you think of anyone else who fits my description Tommy?
FORWARD MY BADGERS TO WAR WITH THE BELGIAN! Wink Smilie
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