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Thread: A Boromir/Faramir What If?

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A good hypothetical question; I'll have to think about it for awhile. Smile Smilie
Oooh, juicy one. I think Eryan would like a bite of this!

Have to thin kabout it, but off the top of my head:
1) Maybe they would have held Osiligath, since Boromir won it in the first place. But then Boromir won the city from the Uruks - don't think the Nazghul were involved - so maybe they would have lost the city (and Boromir) eventually. But it would have given more time for the Rohirrim to reach Minas Tirith & coordinate their defence from inside the city, so maybe Theoden would have lived? Assuming they went to Gondor in the first place (see below).

2) Assuming the same sequence of events up to Amon Hen, I think they would have avoided, or at least thwarted the ambush. They entire Fellowship (including Aragorn) would have followed Frodo to Mordor, with disastrous consequences. They would not have captured Gollum (he would be afraid to come too close to so large a group), and would thus lose their guide through the Marshes of the Dead etc. They would have chosen another path to Mt. Doom anyway, and would all die in a battle somewhere inside Mordor.

Saruman would have invaded Rohan. Theoden would probably be killed, Eomer executed & Eowyn would be handed over to Grima. She'd probably attack him and die too (god I'm in a cheerful mood today).

Oh it IS very good and I think Golly that you are absolutely right as for your suggestion (2) - I immediately thought about the same consequences!
But so many things might have hapened still before Amon Hen - Faramir might have been killed on his way to Rivendell and then in Moria... I must think about it still!
well, let's see...Faramir probably wouldn't have been corrupted by the ring the way Boromir was, and so I totally agree with Golly's #2 there...but what if Faramir had been corrupted? I don't think he was so good that he could totally avoid it. Then things might have gone on much the same way they did in the real story. Except I don't think Eowyn would have married Boromir, and also it would be interesting to see how Boromir reacted to having to serve as steward under Aragorn...Faramir did a good job, but Boromir might have had more of his father's temerament and might have even resented Aragorn as king.
Knowing Faramir learned a lot from Gandalf, I don't think Faramir would make the mistake taking the whole group to Mordor. I think he would have left with Frodo (and Sam of course) to Mordor alone and adviced Aragorn to take the others to Minas Tirith to help Boromir and distract Sauron.
Faramir knew his way around in Mordor, so I don't think they would have got lost. They would have avoided Shelob probably and Gollum would have followed them like he followed the fellowship the whole time.
This opens a lot of new perspecives. Would Gollum have tried to kill Faramir? Maybe Faramir would have left Frodo and Sam when they entered Mordor and joined his brother in combat. Would Denetor have killed himself if Boromir was still alife?
Well now when I thought it over I think that the Rohan/Isengard part might have remained unaffected. After all, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli did not contribute in a realy crucial way to the victory in that Western war. The role played by Merry and Pippin who raised the ents was more important. If Gandalf would decide to come to Fangorn in spite of the fact that the whole Company was gone East, and to rouse the Ents, things might have evolved in much the same way as in LOTR. However, the onset of the attack of Sauron on Minas Tirith might have been delayed, because Pippin and the Aragorn would not have had a look into the Palantir...

[Edited on 1/7/2002 by Eryan]
And about Eowyn marrying Boromir... no, frankly, I don't think so, and even if they did marry, they would quarrel all the time!
This is quite interesting because when I posted the thread I had similar views to what most of you are saying.
I believe Faramir would have made it to Rivendell okay, because if anything he was a better woodsman than Boromir, who I believe was more of a commander/warrior.
I don't think the Ring would have corrupted him as much as it did Boromir either; certainly not enough for him to attack Frodo on Amon Hen as his brother did. What happens on Amon Hen is the crucial moment then...
Assuming the party are still together, rather than here, there and everywhere, chasing after Frodo, what would have happened?
1) They may have avoided the uruks all together (Unlikely)
2) They face the uruks together, and if so, could the party overcome them?
Unlike the film, where Aragorn and Legolas get stuck in too, from what I remember of the book, only Boromir engages the orcs here. Could a united party overcome the orcs, where Boromir alone had failed? If they couldn't, the hobbits would have been taken prisoner and the others would have either been slain in the battle or executed. Frodo would have used the Ring to escape, and Sam may have made it with him.
This scenario would have a similar result to the actual version, except Aragorn would not be able to summon the Dead Men of Dunharrow, and Minas Tirith would most likely fall.
Should the party, on the other hand somehow manage to defeat the orcs, I believe all surviving members would go with Frodo to Mordor where they would finish up captured.
As for Boromir, I don't believe he would have held Osgiliath for much longer than Faramir, but it would have been a more costly battle for both sides. If he managed to defend the ruins too well, his force would have been cut off because the army defending the crossing at Cair Andross would lose whatever. If Boromir fell in this battle, I don't think Denethor would have fallen into the same dispair caused by losing his son on some useless quest. Instead, I think he'd have led his troops valiantly, just as Theoden did the Rohirrim.
There again, whatever the outcomes of any hypothetical scenario, the good guys had more than their share of good luck in Tolkien's version, so given the same doses of good luck, but in different situations, I'm sure the end result would have been the same in the end.
I'm quite sure Faramir would be able to resist the corruption of the Ring, so he would have acted like Boromir on Amon Hen. Then he would have had to die either, and the company would have had to face the Uruks together, but without Frodo and Sam, who had taken off for Mordor. Then Faramir and co (assuming they overcame the Uruks) would all turn to Gondor and help Boromir and co. to defend Minas Tirith and Gondor. This also means that Gandalf would be on his own to rouse the Ents, warn King Theoden and defeat Saruman. I don't think that could have worked though...
If Aragorn did not play part in the Western war, and did not summon the Dead, he won't be coming up Anduin with a fleet of black sails. And it was that vision which finally convinced Denethor that any further resistance is hopeless. So he would fight to the end, I think.
Good point.
Really good point Eryan...Denethor would have definetly fought to the end...so many outcomes would have been different with such tiny details.
Ah yes, the ubiquitous butterfly flapping its wings can change a lot of things. (Chaos Theory) Also, if ever you time-travel way back into the past, don't step off the path and accidentally harm a butterfly, for when you return, you might notice a remarkable change in the world from the original one you left. Shocked Elf Smilie
Wouldn't be too good either if you went back in time and got trodden on by a dinosaur Wink Smilie
Ohh, that`s a hard question Valedhelgwath! Is this question according to the book? Or the film? Elf Confused Smilie
I`ll have to start reading TTT once I`ve read FOTR. Read Smilie
I hope other people`s replys have helped you. Big Smile Smilie Cool Smilie Smile Smilie Wink Smilie
if it was Farsmir at Rivendell suggesting he made it because Boromir had a hard time getting there in the first place and he went the fortunes would be very different for Gondor the armies of Gondor would be more victouriouse but would still eventually loose

If the AMbush at the Amon Hen still happend Faramir would not had stood for the Hobbits and the reamaining members of the Fellowship would not have met Gandalf in time and all would have been lost for boromir is the one person who have died like that for them and if boromir did not stand for them it may have been Aragorn whos fate would have been the same so it needs to be Faramir
Faramir wasn't corrupted by the Ring because Frodo told him about what happened to Boromir. So, he was warned. Boromir wasn't. Sad Smilie

I believe that Boromir is the better fighter and is more proud than his brother. That's why he became corrupted. He saw the Ring as a weapon that would enrich his power and make him Lord of Middle-Earth.
I think in the case that Faramir would replace Boromir in the Fellow Ship, Eowyn would be very very confused then...

Or would Eowyn then meet Boromir in MT and get to marry him ? (although Boromir wasn't interested in women). Anyway, who cares?? Wink Smilie

I think Frodo still would decide to go alone to Mordor and still sneak away from the others, as he knows that all his pals r going to follow him till the end - which would mean that they would walk straightly into their deaths also.

So, Frodo would leave without Sam, but then Frodo would be alone with Gollum and i don't see how Frodo would be able to tame Gollum alone by himself as Gollum was very strong for a small skinny creature. (so Gollum would kill Frodo and get the Ring back...)

No, there r so many possible twists u can come up with that i think that there isn't really an answer to what would happen if Fara replaced Boro.
If Boromir had stayed and Faramir had gone i think that Boromir still would have lived and Faramir would have died by the crossbow of the urk-hie.
What's in a name change???

Away from the ring and in his own element Boromir would have been as Faramir and Faramir would have been corrupted by the ring just the same as Boromir.

It's a bit like asking what if Legolas had not been part of the quest and Haldir had???


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You could have picked a better spot !!
I moved the following from a thread titled Temptation of the Ring which I am deleting as its posts better fit this thread.

Faramir* posted on 21/2/2003 at 06:16
Quote:
Boromir's and Faramir's father said he wished Faramir went to the concil of Elrond instead of Boromir, because Boromir died. Do you think Faramir would resist the temptation of the ring? Or do you think he would try to steal it? I personally think Faramir would resist the ring. Very Big Grin Smilie
Peredhil posted on 21/2/2003 at 11:27
Quote:
I agree. I read somewhere that Faramir was wiser than Boromir and so I'm guessing he would have stayed loyal to the Fellowship till the end, although if Boromir were to do Faramir's job, there would no doubt have been serious consequences when Frodo, Sam and Gollum met them.
For more discussion on this topic, read the posts above this one. Cool Elf Smilie
EW no. Eowyn and Faramir are better. i didnt like Boromir anyway. he was too weak
Quote:
Sorry to anyone who think this was a little much for one post, I just had trouble stopping once I got started.
Not at all Perwing, you stated your argument and carried it on to its logical conclusion and on the way there you gave your impressions of the necessary changes or non-changes that would happen to the side stories. I liked your story and feel the length was commensurate with the scope of the epic. Happy Elf Smilie

And as someone somewhere on the forum has said, "If you don't want to read the long posts, there is nothing forcing you to do so."
Quote:
Faramir wasn't corrupted by the Ring because Frodo told him about what happened to Boromir. So, he was warned. Boromir wasn't. Sad Smilie

I believe that Boromir is the better fighter and is more proud than his brother. That's why he became corrupted. He saw the Ring as a weapon that would enrich his power and make him Lord of Middle-Earth.


I hear this coming from Tar-Aldarion and I say: I agreeOrc With Thumbs Up Smilie

[Edited on 22/3/2003 by Aulė]
i think Boromir is stupid
if he knew the land better then he would have known the he was out of range for the horn to be heard from Armon Hen but he blew it any way and attracted more urki and orcs to him which then killed him and sent his farther in to depression.
if he hadnt died then he would have been able to help the fellowship more and his farther wouldnt have been depressed and would have been able to sort out what was happening at minas trith. instead of letting gandalf do it and getting faramir to go in to battle in osillith and not only almost kill his last son but wast more mens lifes which could have helped in the battle out side minas trith.
(sorry if the spelling isnt right)
veryevil:
i think that either boromir is stupid or aragon, legolas and gilmi are bad fighters, or just to slow to help each other which ever way you want ot look at it.
if Boromir had known the lands better like aragon then he wouldnt have blown the horn at armon hen and wouldnt have attracted the uriki and the orcs to him which then killed him. aragon, gilmi and legolas didn't move fast enough over to save him to save him from his death.
If Boromir hadn't died then his farther wouldnt have gone in to a depression and pointlessly sent faramir out to osillith to fight a war with to few men.
also if denethor II wasnt depressed by boromirs death then hi might have done something about the battle that was about to happen at minas trith instead of waiting for gandalf to come and sort it which just wasted time.
i boromir hadnt died then i dont think theoden would have died either because then the battle would have been more organised from denthor II's side and would have saved mens lifes instead of every thing at the last miniute.
although the last miniute makes things more interseting.
Welcome to our website Thee Who is Afraid of Water. Happy Elf Smilie

Because the fellowship was all spread out looking for Frodo, Boromir would have been just as dead had he not blown his horn; he and the two hobbits could not have withstood twenty Orcs armed with bows when he was trying to protect the hobbits. Yes his sounding the alarm drew more orcs to him; however, it also drew Aragorn and the Gimli-Legolas team back to hiim in time for Aragorn to hear that the hobbits had been taken captive.

Had this not happened they would have even wasted more time trying to figure out what happened to them and possibly might not have chased after the orcs, but gone looking for Frodo and Sam, leaving: Merry and Pippin In Fangorn; Helm's Deep and Edoras to be overun by the forces of Saruman; and Minas Tirith to fall at the hands of the Nazgul Lord's Army.

Without the West winning at Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith, Sauron's Eye would have been turned inward and surely would have caught Frodo and Sam before they got anywhere near the Crack of Doom; before thay had a chance to destroy the Ring. What kind of a tale would that have been?

"Don't tell us the story of 'Frodo and the Ring of Doom', Dad.
I don't like that story, Dad; it ends too sad.
Tell us a different story, Dad; one with a happy ending."
Grondmaster,was that butterfly thing from "Sounf of Thunder?"
(doing it for lit at school!)