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Thread: The Ring's Destruction - Jackson's Method

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When you said 'Verite' did you mean 'Vegemite"?

... and I think I'll keep thinking about my truly realistic fantasy (no, not [i:3cqgtgos]that [/i:3cqgtgos]fantasy, GB! The book one!)
As in "Cinema Verite", fiction filmed in documentary style. One could write a Fantasy book that way I suppose. But I would imagine it then as being done as a series of interviews and news style narratives interspersed with analysis and graphics.

In a way, Tolkien has kind of already gone that route to a fare-thee-well. His conceit was that he was translating ancient texts. One of them a Children's tale, one an Epic Romance (in the Medieval sense of the word), and the other an Historical and Theological Manuscript (in the vein of texts like The Bible and The Bhagavad Gita) and supported by appendices, maps, genealogies and languages.

Perhaps the only way to push that particular take further would be photos of myriad artifacts and archaeological dig sites, interviews with scientists etc.

I like the "Reality" Show style idea you propose (could you imagine Orc Troopers :lol: ), but I don't see how to do that in book form. What makes COPS work, is the handheld video camera-work, the shirtless drunk dudes running, bleeped foul language, cops bragging to the camera etc :mrgreen: . Northern Rangers, Citadel Guards, Elf Squad, Mining for Mithril. Those would be awesome shows 8-) .

[b:2h08052w]GB[/b:2h08052w]
I guess a History Book would be the way - constructed like a History would be, say, of the reign of King John or something. Mmm... I must think this out... The History of King Llewellyn of Lyonesse or someting like that...? (Llewellyn the Elf KIng, that is). A biography, perhaps!?

... oh yes...

PJ spent too much time burning Smeagol and the Ring in the RotK. It was silly. Sauron's kingdom falling to pieces should have been enough. Does a big shadowy hand reach out in the movie before dissipating in the breeze like in the book? I can't remember. It would make a great image though.
Well GB another excellent post- I'll never like PJ's method but I don't mind it being supported by well thought out debate. I would take some issue however with the idea Frodo of the books chooses Hope in the end-I don't think he does, he's like an alcoholic who tells all his friends he's on the wagon and feels great for it but spends his private moments aching and longing for a drink. It's only his 'healing' in the Undying Lands that finally gives him rest and peace- and that all stems from his inability to "do the job" and let the Ring go at the crucial moment (in his own head).
Odo, as to the big hand of Sauron looming over all before being blown aside - can't remember it in the film which is a shame- where Tolkien goes for the big visual extravaganza it seems odd not to use it in a visual medium like film- and as a similar, all be it smaller cloud, occurs following Sarumans death and we don't get it either, even in ext version, seems doubly a shame. Look on the bright side Odo it could have been much worse, PJ could have stuck with his early idea for a big hollywood style fight between Dark Lord and Aragorn! In fact there's most likely enough of those sort of crap changes muted but fortunately not used to start a new thread entitled "things PJ realised were a bad idea before it was to late, thank Eru." Just a shame he didn't spot them all or we might have been spared some of the worst excesses of his wife's script. Surely even you GB would not justify what was done to the noble Faramir? Or is that the start of a new arguement?
Faramir's character has been discussed before now - I can't quite recall which thread now - but please by all means raise it again! I'm not sure it should not be re-examined. (Hopefully, GB will remember - he's a bit of an enclyopedia, as you'll know full well by now).

As to Sauron's proposed appearance, the beautiful image of him they considered would not go astray in something like the tale of Beren and Luthien, I think, if ever it was filmed. I peronally like the idea of Sauron being shown in his beautiful Maiar form. The idea of such beauty contrasted to such evil appeals to me.

I must admit I'm still a bit stupefied that PJ ever considered having Aragorn in single combat with Sauron, but there you go.

And here I go again: Tolkien's main ideas and 'scenes' could be filmed very very satisfactorily. PJ was too timid. He could have pleased the Purists and not displeased the non-readers or Tolkien Liberals in the least.
Please don't get me started on Faramir just yet :P :lol: (it's on another thread anyway <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ).

[b:2ah8f8hk]GB[/b:2ah8f8hk]
But which one? Do you remember?
I'll have to do some searching :roll: .

[b:30i4u621]GB[/b:30i4u621]
When Frodo and sam captured Gollum didnt Frodo make gollum swear on the precious (ring) and that the
ring would destroy him. So at the end when gollum retakes the ring and does his little dance and topples in the
caven. Does he topple or is it the ring sending him over the edge.
He did swear on the ring to protect Frodo, he didn't so the ring got its own back.
The ring itself wouldnt have known it would have been destroyed aswell. Would it? :?: :?:
The Ring was under the influence of a Higher Power than Sauron. This Higher Power (or over-excited dancing, to take a more practical view) caused him to topple over the edge. Frodo should not have been involved. Movie version: silly, undramatic, cliched ([i:yc3n0mn3]archetypical[/i:yc3n0mn3], as one says in Australia).
Actually the Ring did sense it's imminent destruction. It would never have allowed itself to intentionally be thrown into the fires from whence it came. So it would always overwhelm the Will of any bearer at that point.

In the book, Providence (the Higher Power) causes Gollum to slip and fall while dancing with glee after he takes the Ring from Frodo in a brief struggle. In the film Providence causes both Frodo and Gollum to topple in after a more protracted struggle, but Providence allows Frodo to grasp the ledge while Gollum keeps falling with the Ring. Both versions are equally archetypal, so if one is "silly and undramatic", they both are <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

[b:1echs05k]GB[/b:1echs05k]
One is fresh and dramatic and comically-edgy, the other is on the edge of outright boring.
Hi Chris63,
the passage you're thinking of is from The Black Gate Is Closed- "In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious...if I wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command."
I think this betrays more the insidious way the Ring works rather than being a prediction of the future. Power and control over others is what the Ring is for after all and here Frodo is succumbing somewhat to that delusion. It also may be one of the sources of guilt he suffers from after the Rings destruction- if you wish someone harm then later through no actions of your own something bad happens to them this can result in misplaced feelings of guilt.
As to whether the Ring knows it's about to be destroyed, I think the conciousness of the Ring is played up significiantly in the film, although I can understand why they felt they had to do this- its unusual to have a film where the main bad guy is never present in a single scene- excluding the brief appearance in the introduction.
And GB to restate my point, Frodo grabbing the ledge and Gollum not can be construed as Providence, but the choice is still wrong- Providence does not give Frodo a choice- its his inability to make any other choice but seizing the Ring which haunts Frodo the rest of his life in Middle-Earth.
Another point to raise about PJ's version, and I may be alone here, but I felt he could, and should, have made more of Saurons realization that Frodo is at Mt Doom and claimed the Ring- his armies falter and the Nazgul make a dramatic- and on film what could have been a tense and exciting attempt to get to him before the Ring can be destroyed- a missed opportunity again in my view.
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