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Thread: How do YOU pronounce Tolk's words and is there a RIGHT way?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Lord of the Rings > How do YOU pronounce Tolk's words and is there a RIGHT way?   [1] [2] >>
I was just wondering about the words and the names in Tolkien's works (This might just show up how narrow my knowledge is when it comes to english language), there are probably some examples of which we have to pronounce in a particular way (because thats just correct grammar and so on), but are there some that we can pronounce based on our own opinions and what sounds best to us, regardless of what nerds tell us is right? :? Or if I'm completely wrong here and I'm just picking at straws you can tell me that as well! :lol:

Do you for example when you say Gríma, do you say [color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z][b:3ulmb97z]Gr-ee-ma[/b:3ulmb97z][/color:3ulmb97z]or can you say [color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z][b:3ulmb97z]Gr-i-ma[/b:3ulmb97z][/color:3ulmb97z]

or Dúnadan (Dúnedain plural) [b:3ulmb97z][color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z]D-oo-nada[/color:3ulmb97z][/b:3ulmb97z]n or can you say [color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z][b:3ulmb97z]D-uoo-nadan[/b:3ulmb97z][/color:3ulmb97z]
or Urúk-Hai [color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z][b:3ulmb97z]Ur-oo-k Hi-ee[/b:3ulmb97z][/color:3ulmb97z] or can you say [b:3ulmb97z][color=#FF0000:3ulmb97z]Oo-ruck-hi[/color:3ulmb97z][/b:3ulmb97z] ect.


If you think I've got a point here and you're confused too (or if you've an answer) please respond and talk about how you choose to say the words.

[b:3ulmb97z]JD[/b:3ulmb97z]
Probably have to do a bit of research before giving you any definitive answers. But for most of the words there are "official" pronunciations, barring regional differences. The films actually do a good job. As far as I know, they spent some time to try and get that right.

[b:r8qhgfjy]GB[/b:r8qhgfjy]
I was thinking that too, the actors all pronounce the words brilliantly, even Bloom (I kid you guys about Bloom btw <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> ).

Thanks for getting back.

[b:352golum]JD[/b:352golum]
Whoah! Off topic--I love the Tintin Avatar J Dwarf. I'm a huge fan from waaaaaay back :mrgreen: .

[b:3nx83x0w]GB[/b:3nx83x0w]
I'm a [b:1ev0ryjs]Gree-ma[/b:1ev0ryjs], [b:1ev0ryjs]Doo-na-dine[/b:1ev0ryjs], [b:1ev0ryjs]Oor-uk-hi[/b:1ev0ryjs] kinda guy. :mrgreen: I have no idea of those are correct though; but I know I mispronounce(d) my own Elvish pseudonym. :lol:

I've read that the "Eo" in Eowyn and Eomer is pronounced "ear", but I'm not sure if that's true. :?
Sauron was always [i:pu6neoh9]Sore[/i:pu6neoh9]-ron for me, but then I had to adjust to [i:pu6neoh9]Sow[/i:pu6neoh9]-ron: [i:pu6neoh9]sow[/i:pu6neoh9] to rhyme with [i:pu6neoh9]cow[/i:pu6neoh9], same as in the film, and Tolkien's pronunciation I believe. Or should that be [i:pu6neoh9]Sour-[/i:pu6neoh9]ron, with the [i:pu6neoh9]sour [/i:pu6neoh9]not enunciated too strongly? Mostly I still call him [i:pu6neoh9]Sore[/i:pu6neoh9]-ron, which I still prefer.

NB If he had come to Australia we probably would have called him Ron, Ronny, or Bruce. (Less confusion about pronunciation. We keep things simple down here).
Come to think of it, I say Sore-on too. It looks so much more ridiculous in writing. :lol:
Sounds better though, don't you think?
When I first read LoTR I favoured saw-ron for sauron and saw-row-man for sauruman. But people having a variety of different ways to pronounce Tolkien words is hardly surprising- its not often you get a fictional novel with several languages to learn along the way.
I think you're right with [i:12hln50j]Sour[/i:12hln50j]on Odo, don't know what you guys were thinking when pronouncing it [i:12hln50j]Saw[/i:12hln50j]ron, doesn't really sound right to me but I suppose it's all a matter of opinion... :P

Is Faramir Fara[i:12hln50j]mer[/i:12hln50j] or is it Fara[i:12hln50j]meer[/i:12hln50j] (same go's for Palantir and Boromir, and so on)

Btw GB, I agree Hergé is pretty cool <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> , the books are great fun <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> , but they do mirror a kind of racist viewpoint don't they? Whereas the illustration can't be beaten, the stories are good but only to a certain extent because of the countless uses of racial stereotypes, typical of mid 20th century Europe, so they're hard to fully appreciate for me, in that kind of sense.

Tintin in the Congo is a very good example of these views coming through as you probably know, for example one of the African character's is nicknamed Coco :shock:. Don't get me wrong though, I still love Herge's work and I still love Tintin <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> .

[img:12hln50j]http://serieland.dk/wp-content/uploads/tintinicongo_1b.jpg[/img:12hln50j]

Sorry I found the image on Google so I don't know what language that's in or what they're saying exactly. :oops:

[b:12hln50j]JD[/b:12hln50j]
I hate to be annoying Petty :oops: (because spelling and grammar Nazis can really be annoying--especially if its just a typo) but you ought to double-check your spelling of Saruman. I only point it out so that it doesn't lose you any cred when posting on other Tolkien forums :ugeek: .

[b:2o31yeu9]GB[/b:2o31yeu9]
Perhaps i just like annoying pedantry minds'. They tend to mistake precision in a set of rules for knowledge! Or perhaps I should get a series of handy internet lists to refer to in future :mrgreen:
Lol sorry totally off topic but now you've started me off on Tintin and Hergé, I've just found some recent news on him :lol: if your at all interested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/fe ... ine-turkey

I promise not to post irrelevantly again!

[b:1ia7fh2p]JD[/b:1ia7fh2p]
Tintin in the Congo was originally written and published in 1930 (though redrawn in 1946--and reworked again in 1975), when Herge was young and Naive. He reflected the Colonial views of his time and his employer who felt the comic should promote such views. Herge later came to regret his depiction of African peoples and cruelty to animals and would come to describe it as the "sin of his youth".

Another work written in 1932 was Tintin in America which also had depicted African Americans in a similar fashion. He later reworked panels to reflect his more mature views. A number of people unfairly criticize Herge for his early work, and mistakenly believed him to be a supporter of Fascism because he continued working for the same newspaper when it was taken over by Nazis when they occupied Belgium. However, his own brother was a resistance fighter, who he based Tintin on (and who he concealed from the Nazis). And another resistance fighter hired him after WW2. These facts tend to put to rest such claims.

A lot of his works were originally written and drawn in the 30s and 40s and did reflect some of the racism of that period. Herge reworked a lot of them to reflect his own more center/liberal views in the post-war period. His works feature a fair bit of political satire that targeted both Fascism and Communism (I think a bit naively, by focusing on their authoritarianism rather than their ideologies) as mirror images of each other. But Tintin in America has a segment that is one of the finest satires of Capitalist exploitation of Native Americans as I've ever seen.

If I'm not mistaken, the language in that particular panel is Danish, though there is a slight chance it may be Swedish and/or Norwegian as they are all part of the Scandinavian Languge group. Herge originally published in French, one of the three main languages spoken in Belgium.

Now back to Tolkien <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

[b:og14i7a2]GB[/b:og14i7a2]
Sorry Petty :oops: , I meant that I didn't mean to be annoying to you.

[b:3u5o5q3c]GB[/b:3u5o5q3c]
GB, how come the threads always get messy when you're involved? Do you do it deliberately?
Hey!!!! I'm not the one that picked a cool Tintin Avatar :P (I just had to comment on it :roll: , then someone posts a Tintin panel and asks a couple of questions, thus inviting more commentary from me, then before you know it...BAM...Thread off the rails :mrgreen: ).

[b:2dr3irl4]GB[/b:2dr3irl4]
Ah...um.... GB, how come when threads get messy, you're always involved?
No harm no foul GB- I really shouldn't respond to threads first thing in the morning- I'm not a morning person! Incidentally does this forum just make up the time posts are made cause its never right with me- who's time is it on shire-reckoning?
Noticed the same thing myself. I must experiment. The time right now is 2.09am
Okay, so much for that experiment!
Trying to talk about Tolkien again :P , I use the -eer pronunciation JD mentioned.

Another interesting note is that there are no "soft Cs" in Middle-earth. They're all pronounced like Keleborn, Kelduin, etc.
Just as 'Celtic' should be 'Keltic.' (I think 'Kilt' is "Silt', but that's another story altogether).

As to Tolks: I was a Farrah-mer man, but Farrah-meer sounds all right nowadays. Formally Boro-mer, but I'm used to Boro-meer now. Celeborn was always Keleborn to me. Frodo was Frodd-doe - not Frow-doe ('frow' as in when you 'frow' something at someone)and never Freddo.
Not Frito, either? <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
I totally agree Celtic sounds better Keltic (not Seltic :roll:) Odo and Keleborn sounds better than Seleborn, but you used to pronounce the words really boringly, Borom-er sounds far less exciting that than Borom-eer does and as for Frodd doe :roll: that's like saying Sconn instead of Scone, Sconn just doesn't sound right <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

Is alot of Tolkien's mythical language derived from Latin, do you think?

Btw thanks GB for that lecture on Tintin <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> , now I know Herge's not a racist I can read the books and fully appreciate them! <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />

[b:16516t0o]JD[/b:16516t0o]
"Oh wife, will you be a dear and pass the [i:185nq9qb]scownes[/i:185nq9qb], please. I would surely adore one of those [i:185nq9qb]scownes[/i:185nq9qb] with my tea!"

What a lot of blarney. You'll have the Irish kissin the blarney [i:185nq9qb]scowne[/i:185nq9qb], next!

[i:185nq9qb]Sconn[/i:185nq9qb], mate! It's [i:185nq9qb]sconn[/i:185nq9qb]! And no cream, mate - it's vegemite orthaway, you packa mincin nancies!
I have always taken the hard "C" approach to Tolkien's names myself (Keleborn). I did pronounce Sauron "Saw ron" when I first read the books as a youth. I can't really remember when I learned it was supposed to be "Sour on". But Faramir and Boromir I have always pronounced "Fara meer" and "Boro meer".

J Dwarf, I'll send you a PM to discuss Tintin a bit more without derailing the thread any further :roll: .

[b:hmmx71rq]GB[/b:hmmx71rq]
Ah ! Tolkiens languages ! Joy !
It's always been 'meer' for me. I'm sure I used to say 'sou-ron' when I was very young but changed later to 'saw-ron'.
Now that I think of it, this occured when I discovered Morgoth ! It seemed more apt somehow from then.

Interesting aside : My English teacher used to say 'yomer' for Eomer, and 'yowen' for Eowyn ! He used the word yo like
some do today: Yo ! a-la-Fonzie from happy days ! (this was in the 80's)! They were his favourite characters.

Of course the Sauron point becomes more pertinent now that we are discussing Smaug. I wonder how Del-Toro etc
will do it ? 'Smowg' like cow or 'Smog' like.... Smog ?

Anymore for anymore ?

Hail !!

(btw wise Odo, it's 1 am !
Thanks for the time, Hail. (I'm on nightshift but I just got out of bed and it's 3.00pm in Bendigo at time of posting).

Btw I have Smaug as [i:2vj0ilmt]Smorg[/i:2vj0ilmt] (to rhyme with [i:2vj0ilmt]Warg[/i:2vj0ilmt]). Dragons have nothing to do with cows down here - except eat them.
Question: What was Sauron's great great great... grandfather called?

Answer: Dinosauron :lol: <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

(Surpisingly that one was mine...:oops:)

[b:31jer4i0]JD[/b:31jer4i0]
[quote="Joseph Dwarf":22jwo2z1]Question: What was Sauron's great great great... grandfather called?

Answer: Dinosauron :lol: <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

(Surpisingly that one was mine...:oops:)

[b:22jwo2z1]JD[/b:22jwo2z1][/quote:22jwo2z1]

made me smile. (just) <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
Why do I feel like I'm in a scene from the first Jurassic Park film? :lol:

[b:3dug9czg]GB[/b:3dug9czg]
I think I remember some of those dinosaurs, GB. I was just a kid though and one Tyrannasaurus did look much like another....

The Black Riders' mounts were dinsosaurs of some kind I suspect. I pronounce it [i:1nvcpzlp]dyno-sore[/i:1nvcpzlp] btw, though I'm not sure Tolks ever used the word.
I believe Tolkien once said in a letter that the "fell beasts" might have been the last surviving descendants of pterosaurs or other flying dinosaurs.
Aha!
Probably should discuss this on the Origins thread.

[b:3hxj5pws]GB[/b:3hxj5pws]
Do you now think Hobbits are descended from dinosaurs? Cool! 8-)
See response on Origins thread. We can speculate further on it there.

[b:1bhsniob]GB[/b:1bhsniob]
I think they would sound similar, which could cause confusion. But the distinctions however slight are there. Theoden=Thay O Den, Theodwyn=Thay O Dwin.

[b:1dkzjsco]GB[/b:1dkzjsco]
Just wondering is Théoden pronounced the same as his sister, Théodwyn? If so that would be very confusing for their parents :shock:
I've always pronounced Sauron as Sawron & was quite surprised when watching the films that it was pronounced Souron, lol.. And quite a few other words were said differently.. I say Grima & not Greema, Boromeer & not Boromer.. I think they sound better (to me anyway) than the way Tolkien meant them to be..
Also, ive always pronounced Tolkien as Tolk-i-en & not Tolkeen.. Please, no one laugh at me for that, lol..

ps.. On the subject of Tintin - I still have my beloved Tintin school pencil case - with the fab picture of Tintin & the Pyramids.. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
I read Sauron exactly the same way, as Sawron Galadriel.
The one I love to hear Tolkien say is Mordor, the way he rolls the r in it- I always used to read it with a single 'r' sound, but since hearing Tolkien I now when I'm reading hear it as he pronounces it, Morrrdor.
[quote="pettytyrant101":1y0s81qk]I read Sauron exactly the same way, as Sawron Galadriel.
The one I love to hear Tolkien say is Mordor, the way he rolls the r in it- I always used to read it with a single 'r' sound, but since hearing Tolkien I now when I'm reading hear it as he pronounces it, Morrrdor.[/quote:1y0s81qk]
Yes, I think they pronounce Mordor this way in the films, as I noticed the rolling of the r.. I haven't heard Tolkien saying it though.. A lot of work went into the films, making sure the 'correct' pronounciations were used by the actors..
But I still like saying Sawron, lol.. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Here you go Galadriel;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s59oDfD ... re=related

there's quite a few other bit and bobs there of Tolkien readin g extracts- well worth a listen if you are interested in how he pronounces words.
I am very curious about a word in Unfinished tales! I have never heard of such a word and it would be much appreciated if one could tell me how on earth it is pronounced and also if anyone could tell me what it means!

The word is : flaburgeuster??

What tha heck tolk? Im going out my mind here! help guys!

thanks!

anklegones. x
[quote="Galadriel2911":2vcspvo7]I've always pronounced Sauron as Sawron & was quite surprised when watching the films that it was pronounced Souron, lol.. And quite a few other words were said differently.. I say Grima & not Greema, Boromeer & not Boromer.. I think they sound better (to me anyway) than the way Tolkien meant them to be..
Also, ive always pronounced Tolkien as Tolk-i-en & not Tolkeen.. Please, no one laugh at me for that, lol..

ps.. On the subject of Tintin - I still have my beloved Tintin school pencil case - with the fab picture of Tintin & the Pyramids.. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />[/quote:2vcspvo7]



OH EM GEEE!!!!

My fave character was snowy or perhaps the twins!
By god they never failed to make me chuckle!!!!

<img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' /> xxx
[quote="anklegones":264zrcw1]flaburgeuster??[/quote:264zrcw1]

Neither Google, the UT index, nor my memory can find that word. What part of [i:264zrcw1]Unfinished Tales[/i:264zrcw1] is it from? Unless you just meant "flabbergasted"? :?
Hail !! anklegones !

If you do mean ' flabbergasted', It's sort of how you feel sometimes when you're looking at (or maybe reading/hearing) something and your thinking...
...'what is going on!!'

Or perhaps...

[quote="anklegones":178w2p2a]My fave character was snowy or perhaps the twins!
By god they never failed to make me chuckle!!!![/quote:178w2p2a]

... What are you talking about ?? :?
I think he was talking about Tintin, though I don't know for sure since I've never read that. :?
Nor I, although I recognised the names but..... :?
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