Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Fellowship - things that go amiss..

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Lord of the Rings > Fellowship - things that go amiss..   
Thank you all for your contirbutions. And now I know how to edit. Yippee. Sorry, novice to this stuff.
Concerning Hobbit/Elven recognition, seems that the proximity should have created mutual contact. Maybe not, seeing as both communities were quite insular. The Hobbit community in Bree (along the Dwarf roads) should have created at least minimal lore and history of the communities - obviously not. I think the main reason for ignorance of the Hobbits, is the same mistake that Sauraman made. Ignorance of little people because they had no important history, lore or doings.They were so to speak the farmers and peasants in a World of Knights, Loremasters and History. Basically the Elves, had nothing to learn from Hobbits. Gildor's knowledge, was just recent knowledge of the Frodo trip - not ancient knowledge. As the Dunédain were watching they obviously had contact with Gildors groups.
The Nazgul, like Tom Bombadil and other charcaters remain an enigma to me. The are formidable foes, striking fear into the hearts of all - even Gandalf and Aragorn. Yet they "accomplsih" nothing in the LOTR. In fact they are consistantly "vanquished". I think this is why even in Bashkis animated version and Jackson's version, we have difficulty really identifying these characters.
I believe however - sorry - that Bashki's characters were scarier and forgive me also but the chase to the Fords of Bruinen, was very well done in the animation - I'm a little dubious of the film version. Certainly exciting, but how many different sceneries can you ride through in one set action piece.
Thank you all
Ooops - sorry agbout all the spelling mistakes. Of course not Farmer Giles - just a literary mix up
Grondie could clarify the Rivendell-Grey Havens road better since he's a map freak. Smile Smilie

I don't think the hobbits & Elves would have interacted that much around the war of the Ring period. The Shire Hobbits were a pretty insular bunch of people & frowned upon any outside contact with Elves, Men & Dwarves. They weren't always so isolated - I think they interacted pretty closely with other races right up to the 1650s, when the Great Plague wiped out almost all the hobbits outside of Bree/Shire area. The ones left didn't really see much reason to maintain contact with the outside world. The wars with Angband (some Shire areas were destroyed) also reinforced their isolation from the rest of ME. The modern Bree Hobbits were more cosmopolitan though - they interacted freely with Men (wasn't Nob a hobbit)?

As for the Elves - well, I think they knew more about the hobbits than vice-versa. Didn't Gildor say to Frodo - "We know (or have seen you) before" or something like that, and knew about Frodo's intended journey (from Gandalf, I think). Of course, don't have the book here, can't quote exact passages.

The One Ring - I think the Ring was only fully activated if it was worn by someone. Otherwise the Nazhul could vaguely sense it, but not truly confirm its exact location. The Nazghul Lord only saw Frodo when he had the ring on (Weathertop scene) but not, as you said, on the Old Road before they reached Farmer Maggot's mushroom farms.

The Black Riders - dunno, they were too weak at that time, maybe? Sauron had not regained his full strengh yet (no ring), so his ability to strengthen or influence his minions decreased relative to their distance from him.
Huan..you might already know this, but I'll tell you anyhow Smile Smilie

If you see a spelling mistake after you've posted something, you can go back and edit it. There's a little button at the end of the post that says 'edit'. If you click on that, you get another shot at your post.
The Great East Road passed through the center of The Shire about a mile north of the Three Farthing Stone, passing through the villages of Whitfurrows, Frogmorton, Waymeet, and Michel Delving. It parallels The Water in the East Farthing an passes about two miles south of Bywater and four miles south og Hobbiton.

I doubt it the Elves travelled that road by day and even if they did the hobbits probably couldn't see them because they were too practical; couldn't be bothered with such comings and goings.; like they put up mental blinders. Bilbo and Frodo were elf-friends so they knew what to look for, if you see what I mean.

The Black Rider's strength was probably inversely proportional to the square of their distance from Mordor. And their strength in numbers was probably greater than the sum of their numbers strengths. ie 9F > SigmaF9 Big Smile Smilie

Also that movie race to the Buckleburry Ferry was a farce as was the distraction of the tossed rock. And where were Gildor and Company anyway? How did Arwen/Glorfindal know to search for the Hobbits without Gildor?
Totally with you on the Bakshi thing.
And all the other stuff I'm going to ascribe to literary device so that the story gets to work properly. As i often sem to say round here, It's only a book, it's not real or anything Smile Smilie
Quote:
The Black Rider's strength was probably inversely proportional to the square of their distance from Mordor. And their strength in numbers was probably greater than the sum of their numbers strengths. ie 9F > SigmaF9

Yeesh, Grondy...haha...Wink Smilie

As for the black riders not getting anything accomplished, I think that's important because their one and only purpose was to get the ring...had they gotten what they wanted to accomplish done, there wouldn't have been much of a story to tell.

Very true. And have you anymore Tolkien equasions Grondy? Cos they make no sense to me at all, but I love the idea!
Huan, you're not saying Tom Bombadil is a "formidable foe" right? :P
As for the Riders: were they attrackted to the Ring or the Ring-bearer? I mean, didn't they just smell it when Frodo or anyone else had it on? That would explain, of course...
And chika's right. The Nazgul were sent out only by Sauron to fetch him the Ring. That was their one and only purpose and they failed... That's all that's in it, really... Smile Smilie
If you got on the wrong side of him then Tom Bombadil would indeed make a formidable foe, i reckon. But I think Huan (correct me if I'm wrong please) just meant that he was somewhat of an enigma.
Thanks Squirrel - maybe my writing is becoming enigmatic.
I think if you we're walking home thru the woods on a Saturday night singin "Bohemian Rhapsody" really loud because nobody can hear how ridiculous you are and suddenly you ran into a 5 foot hight, 5 foot wide jolly goblin in a green suit a feather in his cap with a bunch of lillies in his hand singin about magic flowers and mushrooms - dunno but I'd find that pretty formidable !
Joke apart - old Tommy I think if he ever got worked up - like if a Nazgul asked his Goldberry for a slow set, I think ye olde Tomie has a serious right hook
Enjoy the weekend and stay away frm the Jolly green giant *elf

[Edited on 5/1/2002 by Huan]
*jolly green giant is making his way through the forum again, so watch out!*
First time anyone's called me a giant, though. I thought we all agreed last time that Tommy was anywhere in between the height of a hobbit and that of a man? Right? I'm not that big I guess, but you still have to watch out for me. Cos I have friends, my foe! Big Smile Smilie
Did you not mean the Jolly Green Giant who makes Sweetcorn? You know the one off of the advert "Ho Ho Ho, green giant"
what advert?
Big Smile Smilie
I really wouldn't know. I just thought he was referring to me... Smile Smilie
Point of Info: Tom Bombadillo had blue coat, feather, and eyes, brown beard, yellow boots, and red face. The only green about him was the morning after he drank the Man in the Moon under the table. "Its after three he said." Smile Smilie[Edited on 8/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Tommy Bom is not green then? Oh right, no he isn't. I remember now. I just always picture him as a jolly green fellow, a figure which fits the wood. Smile Smilie In a blue coat and yellow boots he looks just like the ordinary fisherman... Big Smile Smilie[Edited on 9/1/2002 by TomBombadillo]
rotfl!

Oh Tommy, what would we do without you? Big Smile Smilie
My first post... I believe ol' Tom is a Maia... or some other great force anyway. And I think he is quite important in the book because he shows the hobbits that The Ring has no power over him...
Welcome Mithrandir. And your right about Tom. The book wouldn't be any where near as good if old Tom was missing from it. Smile Smilie
You're very right Mithrandir Smile Smilie and I reckon he's a Maia as well (so do a lot of learned experts) Welcome from me too. Smile Smilie
I still think Tom was quite a mistake! it's so boring!!! ... Whoops.. that would make me a mistake too... and so it is :P
I am not a mistake!! I might be a little too much of a good thing, but not a mistake, surely! Big Smile Smilie

Welcome, Mithrandir. And so we have a wizard among us. Watch your step, people! Smile Smilie

But why doesn't the ring have power over Tom? Why oh why? (finally there's a reason for Tom's importance! Jay!) Smile Smilie
I read in one of the biographies of Tolkien that Tom Bombadil was originally a real doll of Tolkien's children (if I'm not mistaken, a Dutch doll...). On one occasion one of the kids (Michael?? I'm not sure) grew angry and pushed him down the WC and poor Tom Bombadil had to be rescued...
I never knew that! I so hope it's true, Bombadil in the bog LOL! Big Smile Smilie
Well I can only tell that I did not invent this, I read it so everybody may check! Smile Smilie
*puke
I hate kids! :P
Quote:
And where were Gildor and Company anyway? How did Arwen/Glorfindal know to search for the Hobbits without Gildor?

Surely this has something to do with Gandalf arriving at Rivendell a couple of days before the Hobbits and warning them to look out for Hobbits on the road. Grondy!!! I as.sumed you were a living encyclopedia on LOTR's! Is this a slip up?????!!!!!!!

Oh and do you reckon thats how Tom met Goldberry? You know shes a river spirit right, well if poor Tommy hung around in the lav like a stubborn floater, then surely it was stiggy, hands in the bog, Goldberry who dragged him out and got to marry him in thanks.......What do you reckon Tom? Close to the mark? Big Smile Smilie

[Edited on 19/7/2002 by Cirdan]
Elrond: I think that most of Gandalf's plans were known to him.

Quote:
"If I do not come, Elrond will advise you."


Gandalf left word with him, and Elrond acted on his own initiative (when Gandalf did not show up when he was expected) and sent people out to look for any waryward ringbearers, just in case. Very shrewd fellow Elrond.

Arwen in the movie: have no idea. Elrond would hardly send his own daughter. I think that she was probably just wandering around and happened to bump into her old boyfriend.
But I'm sure they were sent by Gandalf.... Sad Smilie He did arrive before them! Elrond couldnt have known they were on the way until Gandalf got word to him right? and Arwen (pfaa) Glorfindel was sent to look for sign of them. You're right Elrond would never send his daughter....cos he didn't.
But then again he did send his 2 sons out after the council to scout around..... Big Smile Smilie
Quote:
I think that she was probably just wandering around and happened to bump into her old boyfriend.


That's just what I arsumed, but now that you spell it out like that, it does sound bloody ridiculous...

Darn it! You people are gonna turn me against this movie yet! But I want to love it! I do!!!
I do I do I do...
Quote:
Surely this has something to do with Gandalf arriving at Rivendell a couple of days before the Hobbits and warning them to look out for Hobbits on the road. Grondy!!! I as.sumed you were a living encyclopedia on LOTR's! Is this a slip up?????!!!!!!!
When Glorfindel met the Dúnadan and the hobbits on the road he said to Frodo:
Quote:
'I was sent from Rivendel to look for you. We feared that you were in danger upon the road.'

'Then Gandalf has reached Rivendel?' cried Frodo joyfully.

'No. He had not when I departed; but that was nine days ago,' answered Glorfindel. 'Elrond received news that troubled him. Some of my kindred, journeying in your land beyond the Baranduin [The Brandywine River] learned that things were amiss, and sent postBodys as swiftly as they could. They said that the Nine were abroad, and that you were astray bearing a great burden without guidance, for Gandalf had not returned. There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine; but such as there were, Elrond sent out north, west, and south. It was thought that you might turn aside to avoid pursuit, and become lost in the Wilderness.'
So Gildor used the elves' 'tin can and string telephone system' or 'Runner Express', which they had set up for quick communication between outposts. And maybe in the book, the twins were sent south and Arwen went north; and PJ just swapped things around. I believe Elrond knew of Gandalf's mission in general, but not his day to day or even week to week plans.

Of course, how PJ rationalized his lack of Gildor, or that Arwen showed up at that particular time and place, who knows. I just chalk it up as the same story coming down over the generations, from two different sets of oral story tellers. Angel Smilie