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Thread: AulŽ. What do you think of him?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Silmarillion > AulŽ. What do you think of him?   [1] [2] >>
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...how to "reep what he saud"(donīt know how to spell it but I hope folk understands it).
"Reap what he sowed" is your biblical-agricultural quote, another is like unto it: "You made your bed, now lie in it."

In contrast to the Elves, who were nature loving and as such looked to Yavanna with reverence, the Dwarves were taught by AulŽ to be more materialistic. Somewhat to their detriment, as they often fell in love with the many beautiful things they created.

To make those pretty things, they needed wood to stoke the fires of their forges, at least they did until they finally learned that by using coal, they didn't have to experience the wrath of the Ents nor later on, even the glare of the sun. Also, their hammers didn't require any maintenance after mining coal, while the trees were always causing the edge to disappear from their axes.

At first the Dwarves were a little stiff necked about this, but AulŽ finally taught them the facts of life as they whistled while they worked, and in the end they all lived happily ever after until one day, this fair complexioned lass showed up on their doorstep, but that is a tale for another day...

And it certainly doesn't belong in this thread. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

[Edited on 12/2/2003 by Grondmaster]
The dwarves are also the hardiest of folk. Because AulŽ made them in Morgoths time so that they would be resistent to evil. They will never let anyone take them as slaves, theyīd rather die in battle. AULň RULES!!! Big Laugh Smilie
Nobody wants to discuss about the great Valar AulŽ huh? They think that ManwŽ and the others are better? No freakin way! AulŽ is a greater Valar than everyone else except Ulmo and Mandos! AULň RULES!!!!! Big Laugh Smilie
I will agree with you on the point that AulŽ rules, AulŽ, since Yavanna is married to him. Yavanna has to be my favorite of the Vala, though (seeing that her name in is my name). I am a nature lover, so I am in service of the fair Lady Yavanna.
Also, the dwarves were more of a background race before all the things with the Nauglamir happened, give or take a few situations, like with Tķrin Turambar, but that is a whole other story.
The dwarves played important roles in how everything took shape in Middle-earth. So yes, without dwarves Arda would be very different from what it turned out to be.
I know the topic was "AulŽ" but I had to give my opinion on the Dwarves ( Big Smile Smilie ) !
Naw itīs cool.....at least you posted a reply.....I am beginning to think that nobody thinks this is a interesting post......
oh well Iīll see you back at home Yavanna Big Laugh Smilie Smoke Smilie
It took me a long time to find this thread again! I totally forgot where it was. Well, I found it. I am happy. AulŽ, you do know that Cano_Yavanna is a male right? I know it was a joke, but I just wanted to clear that up. My name has caused some questioning as to my gender. I just love Yavanna so much that I decided to take on her name. She is awesome and beautiful, and I wanted to give her respect by using her name. It does make me sound a little like a girl, though. Oh well. CŠno means commander, and that sounds tough. (I didn't want to make the 'a' long because of logging in convenience). This is an intresting post, I guess everyone feels the same about AulŽ.
oh okay.....well... Smoke Smilie well welll....you are male but I appreciate that you write in this forumBig Smile Smilie
Aule, I think this is an interesting thread, and I do want to discuss Aule very much! Don't give up on us yet! Wink Smilie
I like Aule because he loves what he makes, he enjoys creation, and yet he is not greedy. I agree with what Grondy said about the Dwarves being materialistic. Yet they also keep to themselves and mind their own buisness, as Elves at times it seems, do not.
Yes Sam....you are right.....AulŽ never creates anything for the desire to possess something.....he has no desire for material things....he just wants to create and mine.....
That behavior is something you should encourage.....not the behavior of FŽanor....Greedely creates the sils and his sons with their ******* oath!
Yes I agree, it should be encouraged. It is strange then that Eru does not encourage it...perhaps he did not like too much curiousity.
But then again....I had in an innocent way disrespected my father EruTongue Smilie
Aule needed to have more patience. If he had waited just a little longer, the children of Iluvatar would have awoken and he would have had someone to teach his skills to.
But then again....if he hadnīt created the Khaz‚d then history wouldīve been different and worse.....the elves would never have been able to survive the Nirnaeth Arnoediad without them....Glaurung and his kin wouldīve crushed them all....
Or maybe history would have been better. Thingol would not have been slain and Doriath would not have fallen. As for the Nirnaeth, it is hard to say what would have happened. Aule had taught the Noldor about forging so it is possible they would have survived anyway.
No they could not.....it was only dwarves who AulŽ made resistant to fire that could stand their heats and that they had great masks......The Noldor would not have a chance Iīm afraid Lasgalen.....sorryWink Smilie
AulŽ is a great Vala! As a Noldor fan I have only to thank him for all that he has taught my favourite people! Oh, could anyone tell me about the wars between the Dwarves and the Noldor? As far as I know, there weren't any, but I could be mistaking!

NamariŽ!

P.S.: AulŽ, if u still have a problem with the Noldor, feel free to check the new thread I opened! It's called "The House of Finwe: what's your opinion?". I can hardly wait to hear your arguments! Btw, I used one of your posts as a quote at the beginning; I hope u don't mind!
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Oh, could anyone tell me about the wars between the Dwarves and the Noldor? As far as I know, there weren't any, but I could be mistaking!


Bugy I wasnīt saying that they waged war against one another....I meant that the Noldor would not have survived the Nirnaeth Arnoediad without the Khaz‚d.....since they were the only ones able to resist the heat of the dragon fires......Of my knowledge they have never waged war against one another....the Noldor and the Khaz‚d.....although the Sindar and the Khaz‚d have....Wink Smilie
U might be right, Aule, yet the Khazad would've been probably in Morgoth's mines if the Noldor wouldn't have returned to ME, IMHO! No offence there, Mahal: your Children still rock the world!!!

P.S.: Feel free to visit my Noldor club under Silm thread; I was under the impression u have a problem with these particular Elves! I might be wrong, though ...

Namarie!
Not with Noldor no.....with the entire race of the Quendi Very Evil Smilie hahahhaa


heheheh....no but there is some of the Noldor I hate and some of the Noldor I truly love.....but still.....Morgoth would not be able to break my Khaz‚d spirit since I created them to be really resiliant towards evil......as you can read in the chapter: Of AulŽ and Yavanna in the Sil Bugy.....Wink Smilie
Aule loves Tequila!! Oh...you meant...the other one...The Vala right??oopsy then Wary Smilie
Yeah, I know, Aule, I read the Book too! hehehe

Yet, even if your children were resilient to his evil, they could've been enslaved just as Eru's Children! Actually, that's what I was talking about!

Namarie!
Hehehe of course I do FloWink Smilie I love that sweet nektar of QuetzalcoatlWink Smilie
And no Bugy.....they wouldnīt have....they were resilient to evil and they would not let themself be enslaved....rather die in combat then being a slave....this is all written about in 'Of AulŽ and Yavanna'......the Children of Eru are not the same.
I created the dwarves to be that way....and so they were....you get it now?
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were resilient to evil and they would not let themself be enslaved....rather die in combat then being a slave
I guess the Petty Dwarves had lost something along the way then, Aule, when your back was turned. Wink Smilie
Yeah, Val, but u got to give the Vala credit: he can't be watching all those little beings at one time! hehehe

Namarie!
I agree that the dwarves were resilient to evil, like with the Seven Rings for example : Sauron couldn't corrupt their hearts. But they have other flaws : they are mad about gold and mithril; don't forget they awoke a Balrog that way in 1980 third age. Sauron used this flaw to lure Thror into Dol Guldur, and we can also see some of this flaw when the Dwarves invaded and ruined Menegroth and its inhabitants.

So, i agree with Aule that Dwarves would never surrender to evil (although the Dwarven race was never very numerous) or ally with evil the way some Men and Elves did, but they weren't immune to evil at all. No, they would never negotiate or surrender to evil, but they were under the influence of evil too and they did evil acts too under this influence.

I rest my case.

[Edited on 28/10/2003 by virumor]
Wise words virumor....and I totally agree......but yes some elves fought on Sauronīs side at the Dagorlad but it was not because they were forced or such....but because they were evil dwarves....or something like that.....but an elf would cower faster then a dwarf wouldTongue Smilie
I rest my case!
During the Last Alliance, some of the Dwarves fought on the side of Sauron. Only the Elves did not have anyone on Sauron's side.
Yea, nicely put, Vir and Lasgalen!

Aule, nobody said that Dwarves could be turned into wraiths, or smth like that! It's just they could fight for the Enemy as well as every other race does, except the Eldar!
The stone they were made from stopped them from passing into the shadows worls, yet it didn't stop them from taking sides in wars, especially when it came to Elves!

Namarie!
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It's just they could fight for the Enemy as well as every other race does, except the Eldar!


Hmm in one way, Morgoth made the sons of Feanor fight for him if you think about it - although they didn't even get it themselves.
And without Morgoth there wouldn't have been rumble at Aqualonde too... Morgoth is really intriguing.
No, Vir, the sons of Feanor, as Feanor himself, fought only for them, never for Morgoth! Though I understand what u're trying to say, that by their deeds they looked as the Enemy's tools. Well, I just don't agree, that's all! No harm in that, right?

And yes, Morgoth was veeeerry intriguing! *that ...*

Namarie!
Yes the Sons of FŽanor always fought against Morgoth; however, some of their other deeds were indeed evil, but that was related to their pride rather than any intent on helping Morgoth.
Well put, Grondy: never for the Enemy, though some of their deeds did please him! A Feanorian (and, to some extent, a Noldor - except Maeglin!) would hate Morgoth so much that he would rather die than serve and/or listen to his lies! Never with Morgoth! Mad Smilie Mad Smilie Mad Smilie

Namarie!
You missed my point.

I meant the sons of Feanor caused a lot of harm and by this helped Morgoth. Why did they cause harm? because of the oath, and they took the oath because Morgoth stole the Silmarils and killed Finwe.

I didn't mean that the sons of Feanor fought for Morgoth like if they were under his command, i meant they helped Morgoth by going after the silmarils and by this spreading chaos in Beleriand. And of course the sons weren't aware of this.

Without the Valar interfering, Morgoth would have totally won the war of the Silmarils easily just because his enemies were divided - and the sons of Feanor are very much responsible for this.

Anyway, the sons of Feanor were fools. It would be much more wise to have all Noldor united against Morgoth. How would they be able to get the two other Silmarils off Morgoth's crown without Fingolfin's and Finrod's and Turgon's house on their side??

They ruined everything.



[Edited on 30/10/2003 by virumor]
Oh, I see it now, Vir! I do agree with u: the Noldor would've been a greater threat to Morgoth if they'd been united against him! Yet I don't think the Feanorians are the only ones to blame; after all, they were deprived of their natural right! When Finwe died, I ask u, who was the rightful heir to the Noldo throne? Was it Fingolfin? Finarfin? Hmmm ... me thinks not!

The situation is similar to the Valar's: they may not always agree with Manwe, but they choose to obey; they've alredy seen what rebellion is causing! So, IMHO, the Noldor should've followed Feanor (in battle, that is; I don't care that they liked Fingolfin or Finarfin better, they had just ONE king!).

OK, this being said, the Noldor did their part against Morgoth; too bad it wasn't a greater part!

Namarie!
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The situation is similar to the Valar's: they may not always agree with Manwe, but they choose to obey; they've alredy seen what rebellion is causing! So, IMHO, the Noldor should've followed Feanor (in battle, that is; I don't care that they liked Fingolfin or Finarfin better, they had just ONE king!).


Well bugy, Fingolfin offered friendship to FŽanor and said 'i will be brother in heart for you' so he accepted that FŽanor lead the Noldor. This happened at the feast in Tirion.

And to be honest : FŽanor knew nothing of battle. Fingolfin was the right man for battle stuff. FŽanor was just good in making stuff, and Finarfin was just the most noble of the three. It's the power of the three, really.

If those three would have just formed an alliance or something, in which all three would have been equal, they would have formed a far more greater threat to Morgoth.

But this was impossible, because FŽanor was too proud and didn't love his stepmother and her sons.

[Edited on 30/10/2003 by virumor]
Yes, Vir, I know Fingolfin promised that he would follow Feanor wherever he would go, but when it came to it, they've almost drawn their swords again! And even if Fingolfin would've agreed to follow Feanor, his House would still have a problem with this, just as Feanor's sons had a hard time accepting Fingolfin as their King, though Maedhros asked them to!

I don't think Feanor was so bad in battle; he was rash, I'll give u that! The three brothers leading the Noldor army as a triumvirate? Prolly the best solution; I doubt Morgoth would've had much chance against that!

Namarie!
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The three brothers leading the Noldor army as a triumvirate? Prolly the best solution; I doubt Morgoth would've had much chance against that!
But it surely would have made for a dull short story instead of the volumes the alternative provided. Cool Elf Smilie
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But it surely would have made for a dull short story instead of the volumes the alternative provided.


Not really, i wouldn't expect Morgoth to go down so fast. Would have been great to see the old mighty one pick up his hammer again. (not refering to AulŽ)
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The three brothers leading the Noldor army as a triumvirate? Prolly the best solution; I doubt Morgoth would've had much chance against that!
The expression, "a camel is a horse designed by a committee springs to mind." In war, I think you need a single strong leader. Combining the best qualities of three individuals is a noble idea, but one often doomed to failure. Sharing power generally results in undecisive action being taken because decisions either take too long to make, or have too many compromises. I think if the three of them had pulled together, Morgoth would have caught them dithering and defeated them anyway.
Well Bugy....I must say that Fingolfin did not TAKE the throne from the house of FŽanor....Maedhros gave it to him....which was the most intelligent thing he ever did! And FŽanor did indeed suck at war....even if they would have made it to Angband they wouldīve been crushed....the crazy twit never calmed down from the murder of his father......I say this because I donīt think he wouldīve been so rash if his father wasnīt slain by Morgy......and besides....whendid this turn into a FŽanor and Morgoth topic?

Oh and Lasgalen i apologize...it meant to read: but also dwarves fought at Sauronīs side at the Dagorlad......elves were the only ones not on Sauronīs side at all......
BACK TO AulŽWink Smilie
He is the best.....itīs as simple as that....Morgoth envied him tooTongue Smilie hehhe
Ooops! sorry, Aule! I went a bit off there; u're right: U ARE THE BEST! Yet I did like that friend of your's ... Was it Ulmo? Yeah, let's leave Feanor and Morgoth to other threads!

This is Aule's realm, here on PT!

Namarie!
Yes Ulmo is the second choice Vala I made....I love the ocean too....itīs so deep and mysterious...and it is the essence of life....without it...no life would exist.....
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Yes Ulmo is the second choice Vala I made....I love the ocean too....itīs so deep and mysterious...and it is the essence of life....without it...no life would exist.....


Yes, and i like Ulmo because he is the only Vala who never left the Noldor behind in Beleriand.

But we're going off topic again. Tongue Smilie
Indeed we areTongue Smilie

Now can anybody remind me what the heck the Noldo that I taught alot, who taught FŽanor all that he knew about metalstuff and etc? What is Telchar or Tehtar? I have no friggin idea...so please help me...my pupil is lost from my memoryTongue Smilie
Telchar is a Dwarf from Nogrod, who made Angrist and Narsil.

I am not sure, but i think tehtar are symbols used in Elvish script.
Yes, Tehtar (apart from being things Samwise Gamgee puts in his stew) are Signs used in the Tengwar to indicate vowel length, and as guides to stress on certain letters and in pronunciation. As tengwar evolved, tehtar eventually became used to represent entire consonantal combinations (similar to that double S sign in German) as well as abbreviations for whole words.

In this way the symbols &, £,$ and % could all be classed as being tehtar as well as the accents used in French vowels.
OK, time for my two cents here.

Tehtar are part of the Tengwar writing systems, which usually represent vowels, but often denote other things too, such as nasals and double consonants in Sindarin, and following y and s in Quenya. Any diacritic used in conjunction with Tengwar, either those of Rķmil or those (later universally used) of FŽanor, is classified as a Tehta. The word Tehta itself is Quenya, as is Tengwa. In most languages, concordant with all Sindarin modes, the Tehta used to signify a vowel is placed above the Tengwa that occurs after the required vowel sound, because in most languages, the majority of words end in a vowel, so this arrangement is more convenient. In Quenya, the Tengwa is placed on the preceding consonantal Tengwa, because most Quenya words end in a vowel. However, vowel sounds are not always represented by Tehtar. There is more than one 'full mode' for the transcription of Sindarin, where separate Tengwar are used to represent vowels. Diphthongs in Quenya are written using a separate Tengwa, which on its own means nothing, with a modifying Tehta, just as, also in Quenya, the letter U is placed on a 'carrying Tengwa', which is used solely for that purpose. You are now enlightened.
Indeed we are Peredhil, thankyou. That was quite impressive. Thumbs Up Smilie

I still think they are things Samwise put in his stew though. Smile Smilie
And don't forget the alphabet soup. Elk Grinning Smilie
Yeh, good explanation Peredhil.

For me tehtar still stays 'Elvish scription stuff' anyway.
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