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Thread: Melkor,Illuvatar

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Silmarillion > Melkor,Illuvatar   << [1] [2]
I would take that a step further V. How do we know that each human perceives everything in the same way? How do we know that what we perceive is actually real at all, and that our senses aren't deceiving us, as they have done before?
Some where on the forum is a topic which asks something like "Do we all see the colors the same?" How would we know?
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Some where on the forum is a topic which asks something like "Do we all see the colors the same?" How would we know?
rIndeed you are correct Grondy. Just hop on down to the Green Dragon for some very interesting discussion and theories.

Click Here for the thread that has more answers to the question.

(Grondy fixed the link.)
Not if you're colour blind.
Ross: How do you know that when we look at anything red, we don't see two completely different colours? Neither of us can see what the other sees, and we have both called it red all our lives, so how can you tell?
That was why waggly horns was there!
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Aule tried to creat life out of love and the wish to teach. Good motives. In trying to do this, however, he was also showing a degree of naivety which I believe he also inherited from Eru. Naivety is an aspect you would not expect to find in something as powerful and knowledgable as Eru, but personally I think he was. It was said that Manwe was the Valar who most closely resembled the nature of Eru, but he was so naive, he could not even comprehend evil.


Just my two cents: Manwe and the other Valar couldn't comprehend evil because it was foreign to their nature, but as all things lie within the scope of Eru he, on the other hand, could and did. Without getting into parallel theological debates I'd say that while Eru could comprehend existence in the absence or denial of him, Manwe and the other Valar could not, as his experience was limited to and wholly defined by existence in harmony with Eru.

I also do see parallels with Judeo-Christian theology along the lines of "once fallen, always fallen" {unless acted upon by some overwhelming outside force; the kind of "reform" the Valar expected in the first Chaining was unrealistic, at best.) Thus, Melkor disruption of the Music was the consequence of his earlier departure from Eru in both body and spirit. Within Tolkiens mythos, here is our definition of good and evil: the Valar act in accordance with and in deference to Erus plan while Melkor tries to disrupt the Music made real just as he did the Music when first played. Further evidence exists in the fact that Morgoth was alone among dissenting Valar while the rest were unanimous in their opposition to him.
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Further evidence exists in the fact that Morgoth was alone among dissenting Valar while the rest were unanimous in their opposition to him.

Although he brought a huge number of lesser Ainur with him to Arda, like Lucifer with his Angels when they fell.
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