Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: The House of Finwe: what's your opinion?

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Silmarillion > The House of Finwe: what's your opinion?   << [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] >>
Quote:
Indeed, if the Silmarils would be thrown into a horde of Orcs they would break and set free the light of the Two Trees - which would indeed kill all those Orcs, without exploding of course.
I don't think a Silmaril would break very easily; they always seemed pretty strong to me. Even if it didn't break though, it would still be devastating to hordes of Orcs if someone rode through them on horseback, holding it aloft, leading a cavalry.
The Silmarillion says of the material used to make the Silmarils that '...no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.'

So no Silmaril-grenades, then - but that got me thinking. What would the sons of Feanor (or Feanor himself) done with the Silmarils if they had got them back before or during their wars with Morgoth? I like the idea of sticking one on a battle standard and leading a charge on an army of orcs - at least everyone would know where you were!

Luthien and then Dior were just wearing the Silmaril won by Beren as a jewel set in the Necklace of the Dwarves. They did not use its power as any sort of arm against the Orcs. Indeed, after his first death Beren stopped entirely to fight with Orcs, he lived calmly with Luthien on his happy green island and did not move even to help his kinsfolk from Hithlum after Nirnaed Arnoediad. However, he arose to fight with the Dwarves who killed Thingol... All this is a bit strange to me... to be so unconcerned about his own kin who was in desperate need of help - and yet to make a war against Dwarves only to revenge Thingol, without even being able to help him anymore...
Eryan, I think that Beren never interfered with Men cause he just came out of Mandos; he was kinda special and it may had smth to do with him returning from the deads! Most unusual for a Man, right?

The Silmarils could not be broken by violence, yet I'm pretty sure Feanor knew how to split them up; actually, I think he was the only one to know!

Namarie!
I think you are right bugyfeanor, Beren was living on borrowed time and Luthien didn't want him to take any chances, but when the Dwarves killed her daddy, well that was another matter.

The Silmarils were the prettiest baubles that ever there were, but they were only good for display. Still, they were 'the paste that launched a thousand ships,' which lead to another epic adventure.

Morgoth wore the three in his Iron Crown, and Erendil wore Beren's one upon his brow.

My talking about using a Silmaril as a hand grenade was meant to be a joke, in fact I said they didn't have any power to be used that way.
Yes of course, but could Beren feel comfortable from the ethicall point of view, just to live calmly among the elves while there was so much misery around? To live calmly, and not try to help? Or, perhaps he was not happy at all, in spite of being reunited with Luthien? The Valar said clearly, that Beren and Luthien will have no guarantee of happiness in their "borrowed time". And think about one extremely sad thing: they were now both mortal and had to die, but Dior was not, which means that they were rearing a child which will be separated from them for eternity!
Quote:
The Silmarils were the prettiest baubles that ever there were, but they were only good for display. Still, they were 'the paste that launched a thousand ships,' which lead to another epic adventure.

Wrong : Luthien used the power of the Silmaril to chase Carcharoth away. And Morgoth burnt his hands on it so you cannot say it's just delivers a good view.

Quote:
Yes of course, but could Beren feel comfortable from the ethicall point of view, just to live calmly among the elves while there was so much misery around? To live calmly, and not try to help? Or, perhaps he was not happy at all, in spite of being reunited with Luthien? The Valar said clearly, that Beren and Luthien will have no guarantee of happiness in their "borrowed time". And think about one extremely sad thing: they were now both mortal and had to die, but Dior was not, which means that they were rearing a child which will be separated from them for eternity!

I think Beren had enough of all the mess of Beleriand and that he had enough of the misery : he knew his time in Beleriand was short for him (and only for Luthien) when he returned, so he just wanted to spend his last few years with her on Tol Galen.

BTW : we are going off topic again Wink Smilie

[Edited on 12/12/2003 by virumor]
Quote:
Wrong : Luthien used the power of the Silmaril to chase Carcharoth away. And Morgoth burnt his hands on it so you cannot say it's just delivers a good view.
You are right Virumor, and to get back to the House of Finwe, while maintaining this discussion of the Silmarils:

Maedhros Finwe's grandson was also burned in the hand by one of the the three Silmarils so badly, that in agony and dispair cast it and himself into a fiery chasm. And Maglor another of Finwe's grandsons was tormented so much by the second stone, that he threw it into the sea and wandered Middle-earth alone until he was lost in time. These two were the last of Feanor's sons.

And finally, Finwe's great-great grandson Earendil took the third Silmaril into the air with him, though I don't think he took any hurt from it, for he was not of the line of Feanor and wasn't bound under Feanor's oath.
Quote:
Maedhros Finwe's grandson was also burned in the hand by one of the the three Silmarils so badly, that in agony and dispair cast it and himself into a fiery chasm. And Maglor another of Finwe's grandsons was tormented so much by the second stone, that he threw it into the sea and wandered Middle-earth alone until he was lost in time. These two were the last of Feanor's sons.


We see the Doom of the Noldor and the Curse of Mandos at work here. Apparently, the Light of the Silmarils was not to be unmared by anyone, not even their maker's sons! Makes u wonder: what would've happened if Feanor got them back? Would they burn his hands too?

Namarie!
After the kinslaying: yes I do believe so....since Enw told Maedhros and Maglor that their heritage was forfit and they would not be getting the Sils without burning themselves....so I think the same thing goes for Fanor!
Returning to the magical powers of the Silmarils... I just realised the following: Light itself has a magical power in a lightless world. Our world is so full of light that we do not see anymore how magical it is. Our days are sunlit, and on the night our cities are illuminated and it suffices to turn on a switch to have as much light as we wish at any time, day or night. One must go far away from civilization to understand once more what is Darkness and Night.
In the First Age Arda was basically very dark. Aman was full of light because of the Trees, but Beleriand was lit only by stars, magical artifacts made by Varda.
Light is magical because it reveals world such as it really is, iwth all its glowing colours. Light allows us to see clearly distant things, and to perceive at once many things, both near and distant. Light brings us courage: we are not afraid any more of unknown dangers lurking in the shadows. When the Trees were destroyed, the Silmarils were the most wonderful sources of light in the whole world. They were not just shining glasses, but the vessels of Light, a magical power allowing to see things normally unseen. We must remember that at the moment when Feanor refused to hand the Silmarils to the Valar, there was still no Moon and no Sun. The world was dark indeed, dark and miserable!
If the Silmarils were just nice shining toys, it would be so effeminate of Feanor and his sons to desire them so! But they weren't!
Quote:
We see the Doom of the Noldor and the Curse of Mandos at work here. Apparently, the Light of the Silmarils was not to be unmared by anyone, not even their maker's sons! Makes u wonder: what would've happened if Feanor got them back? Would they burn his hands too?

Of course Fanor would burn his hands, concering all the grief and harm he caused. And everything he knew that everything he did was wrong but still he continued.

If there's one who deserves the title of Dark Elf, then it's our dear Fanor. He was lucky he didn't join Morgoth in the Void himself.
What a fantastic post, Eryan! You are right - THAT is what is so magical about the Silmarils.
Thanks JonnieA! Big Smile Smilie
Great post, Eryan! I think u just hit the spot!

Now that I think of it, Feanor couldn't have touched the Silmarils cause they were hallowed by Varda! If that wasn't so, he might've commited even worse deeds without been concerned that he couldn't touch them!

No, Vir, Feanor could never be called a Dark Elf, were that be just for what the Avari stood for: they were the Elves who rejected Light, while he did his best to preserve it!

Namarie!
Just a thought: Since Feanor and his sons made an oath calling on the Everlasting Darkness on them, is that considered a blasphemy of any kind? Is it a slight upon Illuvatar to call on the Void that only Melkor explored?
Interesting thought uruk_slayer......I dont get it why Maglor gave in to Maedhros will to recover the silmarils from Enw when they were safe and their oath was forfit since Varda and Manw(Fanor called them as witnesses to the oath) discarded the oath...and why not just leave the silmarils on the ground and let Enw pick them up later on? Why throw them into the sea and into a fiery chasm?
Quote:
No, Vir, Feanor could never be called a Dark Elf, were that be just for what the Avari stood for: they were the Elves who rejected Light, while he did his best to preserve it!

No he didnt. Feanor never did anything with the intention to preserve the light : he only wanted the Silmarils back, those things were the only thing he cared for. If he really cared for the Light, he would have allowed to break the Silmarils to restore the two trees (if he got the Sils back) but he refused this.

And about the Avari : they rejected going to Valinor, that's all. There's nothing bad about that.

Quote:
Interesting thought uruk_slayer......I dont get it why Maglor gave in to Maedhros will to recover the silmarils from Enw when they were safe and their oath was forfit since Varda and Manw(Fanor called them as witnesses to the oath) discarded the oath...and why not just leave the silmarils on the ground and let Enw pick them up later on? Why throw them into the sea and into a fiery chasm?

They did this because of the oath. Even though Eonwe told them the oath was forfit, they still thought they had to follow their oath.


[Edited on 17/12/2003 by virumor]
It might be considered so, uruk_slayer, since the Void was totally opposed to what Iluvatar represented! Yet:

Quote:
They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by the name even of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Darkness upon them if they kept it not...

Silmarillion, Chapter IX

So, my guess is Iluvatar only could've forfit this oath.

Quote:
And about the Avari : they rejected going to Valinor, that's all. There's nothing bad about that.


That brings back one of my older thoughts: how good was it after all that the Valar called the Elves in Valinor? I mean, if Eru intended to do so, He woud've placed the Awakening spot a lot closer to them, not in the farthest East! Just my thought, of course!

Namarie!
Quote:
That brings back one of my older thoughts: how good was it after all that the Valar called the Elves in Valinor? I mean, if Eru intended to do so, He woud've placed the Awakening spot a lot closer to them, not in the farthest East! Just my thought, of course!

Maybe it was Eru's intention that the Valar would call the Elves to live with them in the West, so that there would become diversity in the race of the Quendi : Avari, Vanyar, Noldor, etc
Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year to all of u, as I'm going away for the moment!
I'll be back with smth for u ... just check the 'Feanor' thread under characters on January 1st!

Namarie!
Mae govanenn! I'll bring this thread back to life...
I've been so late with my Feanor essay I've promised, but soon, my preciouss...
This I find very interesting: 'Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.' I think it can be very much related to the Noldor! How 'bout u, what do u think?

Namarie!
I am going to have to read those chapters again before I comment.

All I can say now is that someone needed serious anger management counselling!
Well, it's a start, Vee... I do not think that anger was natural for Feanor... it's just smth that came up with the lies and deceit of Melkor, his father's slaying, the theft of the Silmarils and so on...
*Bugyfeanor returns now to his work on the little 'Feanor' essay*

Namarie!
Fanor would prolly be little bit more calm and reasonable if his father had not been slain.....thats the Great Smiths idea....
i think that the whole sequence of events there was a series of choices on each of the family members' parts. like, tolkin has each one "brooding" or "desiring" or whatever different things, and then they decide that they are gonna do something about whatever it is, and each of their decisions is one more link in a chain of reactions. blame could be shared by everyone, cuz i'm not really sure there was anyone there that was completely innocent of wrong-doing, in that they each made poor personal choices. like, you can say, oh it's only because he wanted the simrils so badly, or whatever, but with each one of those little factors is a personal decision on the characters' part to allow that little factor to be that way. i guess that's pretty anal, but when you get picky about that kind of stuff, i think the more you pull it apart, the more you see the inter-reliance of all these little choices which i think results in blame shared by everyone, you know?
Wb, Great Mahal; your counsel is to be heeded when Noldor are around!
Welcome, Whimseyedriven! I appreciate your comments and wait for more to come...

For one to truly understand the Noldor and their thoughts, one must search everything there is to know about that tumultuous First Age, as well as the Ages before... I've heard some people (not here on PT) blaming Feanor for every single evil that happened after the Killing of the Trees... forgeting a little aspect, some guy named Melkor who roamed freely when he should've been shut behind unbreakable doors and the key thrown away!
Aaargh!!

I have finally managed to write a post without getting logged out all the time!!!

Hi Bugy, good to see you again.
I have to say that study of the Noldor is a most rewarding topic in Middle-Earth - the First Age revolves around them and everything else follows from that...
JonnieA, great to see u again! Welcome to the club (logging out is a bother, right?)...

As for the Noldor (Feanor, to be more exact), read the little essay I've posted under his thread in 'Characters'. I can hardly wait your opinions about it and new subjects and aspects to debate!

Namarie... before I get logged out!
I think Feanor was such a great genius, that he became insane, arrogant and proud. That's why he wiped out the Teleri, burnt their ships and so betrayed his half-brother Fingolfin, and finally got wiped out by Balrogs because he thought he was Bruce Willis (or Viggo Mortensen) and could invade Angband on his own. Apparently he forgot he wasn't a great warrior.

He made the Silmarils, the greatest works in the history of Arda, which contained the light of the Two Trees himself, and ironically the light of the jewels caused his mind to darken. We can call Feanor mini-Morgoth.

Of course, we must thank him too (and Morgoth with him) for causing so much pain and grief, because without them we wouldn't have those great stories to read.
Have you read Bugy's post about Feanor under Characters?
Quote:
... forgeting a little aspect, some guy named Melkor who roamed freely when he should've been shut behind unbreakable doors and the key thrown away!

We all know what person to blame here now dont we? But the fact is noone can blame kind and wise Slimo because he is the King of Arda next only to Mister Eru himself. But if I were to make a mistake then he would be saying: You made a mistake you idiot and such........I should be the k......forget what I said he-he....*looks around his peers to see if they noticed anything*
I like Slimo but I thought he shouldve held Morgy in for all time....or at least take council from Ulmo, Tulkas and I.
Well....see yall on the flipside!
Quote:
I like Slimo but I thought he shouldve held Morgy in for all time....or at least take council from Ulmo, Tulkas and I.

I thought he did.
OK, at Vir's kind suggestion, I'd like to start a discussion about the House of Fingolfin! Since u all know where my allegiance stands (lol, that sounds funny to say!), and as I'm sure there are a lot of Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon or Aredhel fans around, I'll let them start!

Namarie!
Quote:
OK, at Vir's kind suggestion, I'd like to start a discussion about the House of Fingolfin! Since u all know where my allegiance stands (lol, that sounds funny to say!), and as I'm sure there are a lot of Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon or Aredhel fans around, I'll let them start!

Well, Fingolfin was the most valiant elf ever (if you think Legolamb is valiant, you should have your head checked) : the way he managed to disturb Morgoth for a few minutes was exquisite. One of my favourite parts of the Sil.

Fingon was a lot like his father : also a very brave lad, but in the end he was creamed quite easily by a couple of Balrogs. Bad luck. Fingon's son is Ereinion, better known as Gil-Galad : also a brave lad, he had a glorious death together with Elendil when they managed to topple Sauron.

Morgoth was very keen on killing Turgon, because back in the old country (Valinor) Morgoth experienced a strange feeling of fear when watching Turgon : he probably sensed something of the future, in which a descendant of Turgon would prove his undoing. Turgon was stubborn (which is almost equal to 'brave' here) because he didn't want to leave his Gondolin. But hey, it was another glorious death : Gondolin, the Alamo of Middle-Earth, even the Thermopulai of Middle-Earth.

Well, the last of Fingolfin's children, Ar-Feiniel, was also under the Doom of Mandos, but before she gave birth to Maeglin, whose perverted mind eventually made him betray his mother's ppl to Morgoth.

Anyway, the House of Fingolfin endured together with the House of Finarfin, through Idril ----- indeed, Aragorn and Arwen are descendants from Fingolfin.

I don't think the House of Fanor endured : they were all too busy with messing around and proving the downfall of the Eldar, instead of marrying and helping their women do the dishes. Well, only Curufin is mentioned as having a son Celebrimbor, who stayed with Gil-Galad after the 1st Age. But Celebrimbor and his ppl were completely destroyed by Sauron in the 2nd Age.

In one word : Fanor isn't lonely in the Halls of Mandos at all : he can talk with his sons and other members of his House about their foolish and desperate acts for all time.

Nice Summary Vir Thumbs Up Smilie
Well, nice job, Vir! I actually agree with most of it (that's a first one, right?! hehe)... except that not all the Feanorians are dead... Of course, Feanor, his sons, as well as Celebrimbor and his smiths were all slain, yet some escaped with Elrond in Imladris; yeah, that's right, Imladris is the last refuge of Feanorians on Middle-earth!

Now... talking 'bout the Second Noldorin House...
Fingolfin was, indeed, the most valiant Elf ever (the duel with Morgoth is one of my fave parts also). He was wiser than his elder brother, but I'm afraid that's not so concludent, since Feanor was anything but wise! lol
Fingon was also a great Noldo prince with a tragical end at the hand of Gothmog, same Balrog who slew Feanor (*throwing cheers for Echtelion and his great job of killing the d*mn demon*). He was also a great friend; Maedhros knows best! That scene when he saves his cousin shows his great heart and courage.
Turgon heeded Ulmo's warnings more tha Orodreth of Nargothrond did, and that's proven also by the times when the cities finally fell; yet he didn't go all the way!
Aredhel was a very interesting character: though ever friend of her cousins (the sons of Feanor), she ended up ensnared by a Dark Elf who lured her in his realm. The same Eol who'll be the death of her, when, in a desperate act of maternal love, she jumped before her son Maeglin and received the stroke aimed at him!
Ereinion Gil-galad was another great representant of this mighty House; after reading UT, the letter he sent to the Numenorean King made quite an impression on me, cause it told a bit more about the one who wrote it. The Silver Star fought against the Darkness 'til the end, when he fell after striking Sauron his death blow. Glorious end for a glorious King!
Maeglin is a very controversed character: though valiant (he's the most courageous prince of Gondolin in Nirnaeth Arnoediad) and crafty, he has a dark side that destroyes him in the end: his unnatural love for his cousin Idril.
Of course, Idrilis mostly known for being Earendil's mother (that's a lot, already!). She's therefore a bit neglected, as I see it.

Namarie!
Moderator Smilie I've just moved a couple of posts about Feanor to the Feanor thread in the Characters section.
So Finarfin was king of all Noldor for the rest of Ardas time? Even if Finw got out from Mandos wouldnt he take the throne back(not as in taking but that Finarfin gave it up to him)? Thats one thing I cant stop thinking about....if they died and came back they were only an elf and not a king?
Or....what the heck....forget what I said....or do not....its up to you...I think.....I shall stop writing now...
Quote:
Aredhel was a very interesting character: though ever friend of her cousins (the sons of Feanor), she ended up ensnared by a Dark Elf who lured her in his realm. The same Eol who'll be the death of her, when, in a desperate act of maternal love, she jumped before her son Maeglin and received the stroke aimed at him!


I like Eol! My kind of elf. OK he was a little dark, moody and bitter.... but he thought he had good reason. He blamed the Noldor for the return of Morgoth and for disturbing the peace of Beleriand. He liked dwarves. Trying to kill his son was a bit loopy but he was twisted with hate and jealousy and maybe envy.

The Silmarillion says that "it is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling, nor that her life in Nan Elmoth was hateful to her for many years."

Typical marriage really - trouble with the in-laws etc.
U have a point there, Vee! Yet he was not right concerning the Noldor: they did not bring Morgoth back to Middle-earth... he was already there! They fought with him as best as they could, protecting (voluntarily or not) the Sindar as well! He could've been a little more understanding, right?! And, no, I didn't mean she was unhappy with Eol (at least, not at first!); when she wanted to go out of his woods, that's when everything changed!
I agree with Vee, Eol is one of the most fascinating characters in the First Age. I think Tolkien manages to breathe more life into people when they are driven by dark desires rather than being good boy scouts all the time.
Eol is a lord in his own right (but appears to value power over others very little, and has but few servants), and is very skilled. Unlike Feanor he (as far as we know) had no-one to teach him so perhaps he could be said to be even more inventive, having to start from scratch.
Eol, more inventive?! That's debatable... who could say how Feanor would've turned up if he wasn't taught anything by the Valar?! I still think he had enough creative inner power to be the greatest of all Elves!
OK, i'll do my share on El although i don't consider him a member of the House of Finw --- nor did he want to be considered as such (quite the opposite eh). He ensnared a Noldorin lady so he could marry her... she was kinda forced to marry him, as there wasn't anything else to do in Nan Elmoth.

Like Fanor, El was very biased and only cared about his own people, crafts and lands. Of course, Aredhel would long to leave the tiny confinements of Nan Elmoth to return to her people and of course Maeglin would follow his mother because her stories she undoubtedly told him made him long to see what was beyond his father's lands. But El didn't want this... he is very stubborn and narrow-minded and his views on the Noldor are ridiculous : he claims the Noldor brought war to Beleriand, which is rubbish.
If the Noldor wouldn't have returned to fight Morgoth, well then our beloved Dark Lord would've taken the entire land in no time. Yes, even Doriath --- Sauron would've been able to pass the Girdle of Melian wouldn't he?

El also seems to think that the entire Beleriand belongs to the Sindar... well first of all no one of the children of Eru can claim a part of Arda as his or her dominion... there is only one Lord who can and that's Manw. ("There is only one Lord of Arda, Saruman, and he does not share that power") I think if the Eldar would share the same views as El, no one of the Moriquendi would've been allowed to enter Valinor after their 'stay' in Endor... lucky for them they were a tad different.

But i guess the character of El was again needed to make the Doom of Mandos work : Gondolin had to fall (even no matter Ulmo's attempts to safe its people).

To leave this 'dark elf' - threadlike post and return on-topic, i'll return to Aredhel and Maeglin : Aredhel's sudden longing to leave Gondolin to visit Fanor's sons was the Doom of Mandos in full glory : she was lead straight to Nan Elmoth (by fate) and to El's 'lair' (by El). Because Maeglin had to be born...

So this is stunning : Ulmo tried to save Gondolin's people and sent Tuor for this. Tuor should be the message for Turgon and its people to leave - so they could be saved if the people of Gondolin would've left the city (including Maeglin)... but they didn't. Logical they didn't, of course - they seemed to be hidden perfectly (compared with the fact that Beleriand was quite unsafe at that point) for Morgoth nd most importantly the city was as glorious and beautiful as Tirion. And so the Doom of Mandos proved to be stronger than Ulmo's plan.

Anyway, it was very striking and noble from Ulmo that he never left the Noldor behind - no matter the Curse and the Doom of Mandos he still tried to help them.
Yeah, Ulmo was kinda surpassed in this matter; still, nice going for the Water Lord: he was alway there for the Noldor!
Yup, although few of them deserved it.
Hummm, who could those be?!?! *thinking*
Now, back to the House of Fingolfin... There's still much to say about Fingon, Turgon, Aredhel, Maeglin, Idril, Ereinion Gil-galad, before we pass unto the House of Finarfin!
Quote:
Now, back to the House of Fingolfin... There's still much to say about Fingon, Turgon, Aredhel, Maeglin, Idril, Ereinion Gil-galad, before we pass unto the House of Finarfin!

Well looks like the House of Fingolfin isn't so popular though, considering the numerous posts about it which appeared in here..

After all, the House of Finarfin has Finrod and Galadriel among its members, and about this two illustrious Quendi entire books of comment could be written. So i'll say we pass on unto the House of Finarfin.

There isn't much to say about the list of Fingolfians you've mentioned anyway : they all tried to fight Morgoth and the Doom of Mandos in their own way, but they all died while doing this, safe for Idril. She gave birth to Erendil, who caused the destruction of Morgoth and the redemption of the Noldor. Glory!
It seems to be to be the fate of Fingolfin and his house to be the bedrock that the other houses swirl around. After the death of Feanor, the seven sons get up to no end of mischief (inadequate word!) while the house of Finarfin cover themselves in glory in the service of good. In contrast, Fingolfin, Fingon and Turgon, though each in turn becomes High King, play little personal part in the battle against Morgoth beyond their kingly roles. Fingolfin lays the seige strategy to contain Morgoth, and when that fails rides to a glorious death, then Fingon takes over his mantle, and when Turgon's turn comes and Gondolin falls he barely rates a mention in the battle when the city is destroyed.

Don't get me wrong here - the house of Fingolfin is my personal favourite, and I'm sure Tolkien intends there to be much more that they are driving behind the scenes (holding alliances together, etc), but I suppose it is a king's duty to be a ward to their kingdom, while lesser knights (or even lesser kings) ride out on glorious adventures.
i wud support u to some extent jonnie coz i like Fingolfin very much and the way he fought morgoth. i also like old Finrod and of the sons of Feanor, Maedhros. the worst of the lot are the two brothers Curufin and Caranthir. Proud as they are, bugging everyone around (cudnt spare even Beren in his perilous affairs). but Feanor and his stupid , haughty sons do put a twist in the tale. i will drink to that Alcoholic Smilie


Grondy cleaned this up. You must better disguise your euphemisms or simplly use comic book style symbols, else you are in violations of our rules recently re-posted in various places around this Website. Moderator Smilie
  << [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] >>