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Thread: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

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Oh Tin (if I may be so familiar?) you have me a mite confused.

When you said "Wilmington" did you actually mean "Wellington"? If it was just a spelling error, I think it was a nice one. "Wilmington" has a really friendly sound to it somehow. If it's not actually "Wellington", I'd like to go there!
It sounds like it could be in The Shire.

You're probably right about Russia. Would we have to become Bolsheviks?

Odo
ahgklaj! :oops: I was thinking of Wilmington North Carolina, sorry, I meant Wellington. And it is a very nice place in the U.S.
And besides, I've ALWAYS wanted to go to NZ just to see the locations and everything, and Australia to see Steve Irwin (he and Tolkein are my heroes) but he's now dead... :cry:
None the less, we need to find somewhere with plenty of woodlands of different types, mountains, rivers, you name it.
And right now, NZ (and possibly the U.S.????) are my only options.
Should we really be getting you American folk involved, Tin? Don't you all live at Disneyland? <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

Odo
Well, as we are considering this as an Independent Film, we don't have to worry about any of Jackson's contracts.

And Russia has all the kinds of landscapes you mentioned in Spades Odo 8-) . I'd love to visit NZ too Tinuviel, but as Sam Raimi has also filmed all his Fantasy shows (Hercules, Xena, Legend of the Seeker) there, I think it's time for a new location. NZ is starting to become a little too familiar on-screen, as gorgeous as it is.

[b:3nmf2bu7]GB[/b:3nmf2bu7]
All we need is a place that looks exactly like Beleriand!

Something else comes to mind. Did the sun and moon exist in Beren and Luthien's time? Or was it a kind of 'twilight' world? It's a serious question.

Odo
Good question Odo. I think they did by that time, but I'll have to double-check my copy of the Silmarillion tomorrow.

[b:1whvkyhv]GB[/b:1whvkyhv]
Yes, I might have to pull my finger out and look (at the book, not my finger!) I need to know the answer before I start planning 'lighting'. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

Odo
If this helps, I always pictured it as a twilight world, or maybe dawn, something not complete, but in a wonderous beginning...
Perhaps in the northern UK? like Ireland or scotland? Then it will really be true to the book!
Well, much of Beleriand was later submerged, so it wouldn't necessarily be Shire-ish (which is most intended to represent Britain).

[b:1aa0mut8]GB[/b:1aa0mut8]
The landscape I guess could be anything, but the lighting situation is important to get right!

As to northern UK, Ireland and Scotland, Tin: are you suggesting those places are always kind of gray and dreary? :shock:

Odo
No, but it has that kind of feel... the... (for lack of a better term,) archaicness of it, like the beginning of Middle earth would feel? Or, like I said, somewhere with alot of forests.
I guess a northern European type forest - but a clearly primeval one.

Odo
That's why Russia might be the best bet. British and Western European forests have been whittled away by civilization. But Russia still has vast tracts of unadulterated (and Gorgeous) Wilderness. Google Lake Baikal for a small sample.

[b:1raprawb]GB[/b:1raprawb]
Maybe we have our location then!

Where are we with the script?

Odo
:o :shock: o dear!
Don't panic. We were still discussing the Opening Sequences when we digressed to Locations. We should revisit that and try to map out from there on. After we've hammered out the basic structure, Odo can start writing up some scenes and dialogue, and then I can start storyboarding, and then we can confab, revise scenes that need it and move on.

If we actually get that far :roll: , we should approach CT and get his blessing (if he hasn't already sold the rights). Then we can start seriously hitting people up for funding. If we get that, then we can start hiring production and acting talent, and line up distributors (though finding distributors may also have to be done during the Funding phase).

If none of that pans out then we can just whistle Dixie in the Wind :lol: .

[b:10f4dqru]GB[/b:10f4dqru]
ok <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
I quite enjoy screen writing actually. Just give me and idea and away I go. How do we want it to start? proluge or no?
This "Whistling Dixie to the wind" GB, is it some kind of incantation? We're still at $100.00 (though DK has gone decidedly quiet lately) and your 50 is but a twinkle in your eye, unless your circumstances have changed! An incantation might be an option!

Tin, I reckon start with Gorlim and fill in background stuff as we go, integrated into the plot, either in conversation or flashback!

Odo
I still like the idea of narration free prologue while the opening credits are rolling showing the fashioning of the Silmarils. Then jumping to Beren's silent Orc Hunt.

Night Falls, Beren slumbers restlessly. His sleep distubed by his dreams. Through his dreams we see Gorlim informing Beren of his betrayal of Barahir, which we get to see as Gorlim tells his story.

Beren's second dream the following night, shows him finding his dying handless father. His third dream the night after that shows him finding his father's murderers and taking back his ring, and embarking on his Orc Slaying Spree.

Then we have a sequence showing Beren killing Orcs in Summer under a Blazing Yellow Sun, then hacking Orcs among a flurry of Golden Autumn Leaves swirling about, then lopping Orc limbs and spraying Red Blood across the White Snow. Then it's Spring, Forest Flowers are Blooming in a Rainbow of Colour, animals and birds happily gambol around Beren in a scene evocative of Snow White (probably Disney's best film).

As he and the Forest Creatures make their way through the forest they come to cheerful Bubbling Brook. Something catches Beren's attention, He startles, drawing his sword. Then spying across the stream and up the Rocky rapids, he catches his first glimpse of Radiant Beauty, with her own flurry of birds about Her. His features soften, his jaw drops. After a Pregnant Pause, finally we hear Beren's voice, calling out "Tinuviel".

[b:1yu05pc1]GB[/b:1yu05pc1]
Um... that's about ten to eighteen(ish) scenes sketched!

Hey! "Snow White" and "Beren and Luthien" in the same breath?!

And birds and beasts gamboling around Beren!!!

The irony of it all! TH becomes LOTR, B+L become TH. Wow! And I mean, WOW!!!)

As to Prologue over credits - that would become, in a sense, BEREN AND LUTHIEN (SCENE ONE) Maybe you could refashion it into Script Material and post it there GB. It would be a start!

Go for it Tin!

Odo
Yes indeedy :lol: . I don't think the "gamboling" would be as silly as it probably sounds. I just thought it would be a lovely way to introduce Beren's rapport with the birds and beasts :oops: .

Disney's version of Snow White really captures a lot of the Mythic qualities of the Grimms' Fairy Tale. Both in it's terror and it's beauty. I know the whole "One with the Animals" thing has become a trope ripe for Parody (see Shrek), but with an artistic touch, such a scene can still be done in a lushly visual way that doesn't seem completely ridiculous.

I might indeed take a whack at actually scripting this stuff out, but I tend to work a bit more loosely by roughly sketching and fleshing out the details as I go along, usually visually--which is why I'd be better off story-boarding. If someone were able to take my sketches and mock them up into a verbal script, that might work. Directors often work very closely with writers and artists to have them map out their vision. This really would require more of a team effort to even come up with just one script, let alone several individual scripts.

[b:17eha89e]GB[/b:17eha89e]
I'm not thinking multiple scripts, that's why I suggested starting with SCENE ONE versions - choosing one after discussion - then moving on to SCENE TWO. A gradual process. Doing it over a forum would otherwise become a big old mess. Maybe if we stay motivated long enough, we could have an AGREED SCRIPT thread where each Agreed Scene could go, one post after another as we Agree them!

As to our Beastly friends, I think we should try and make this aspect of our story as realistic as possible. Of course there will have to be things that need suspension of disbelief - we don't want to limit ourselves too much! I think the best time to introduce our Beasts is after Barahir is killed and Beren gets his ring back by killing the Orc. This then will follow the proper story arc as laid out in the text. I do have something concrete in mind about how we use our beasts, but that can wait...

One of the trickiest things will be all our sub-creating. The story is told swiftly and briefly and we'll need to make up dialogue and create scenes and "interpret" quite a lot. So long as we stay as true to the spirit of T's text as possible, I think it'll be okay. Can't avoid it anyway.

Anyway, head down, bum up...

Odo
Read your post on the SCRIPT thread old chum. I'm not totally against your idea, but it's not how I would start!

Odo
I've put up something for scene one. It's very rough, a brain pour as I like to call it. Sometimes it doesn't really flow, but it's my thoughts in words, so it's more than likely to sound like hoggwash!

What do u thinK?
Tin, you could knock me down with a feather! Your SCENE ONE was really really good!

If you don't mind, I'll try to download what you've got to a Word doc and maybe work it a little. There's a couple of things I think I might be able to fiddle with or rejig to make it a bit closer to Tolkien's text, I think. And maybe fiddle a little with some of your dialogue too. This is to do with 'my' interpretative process, and not so much to do with what you've done, which I think is pretty darn good.

Would you mind if I tried? If you don't mind, let me know. I'll then try and get my 'take' done quickly and post it on the SCENE ONE thread. We might then compare.

If this is your first attempt, well, all I can say is: "Wow!"

Odo
I agree with Odo. Great Job Tinuviel :mrgreen: . Of course I like that you incorporated a bit of my approach too <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> 8-) . Now we'll see how Odo tweaks it :ugeek: .

[b:yjkcusk7]GB[/b:yjkcusk7]
Thankee :mrgreen: and go ahead and tweak it. I'd like to see what changes you'd make.
And so it begins....
Thanks Tin!

But I've been thinking again (which is something someone like me should probably refrain from, but there you go!)

I've had a look at the beginning of the Chapter and at your SCENE ONE (which I still think is mighty fine), but it occurs to me that it might be useful if I do something of a precis of the chapter in point form, try to get a chronology, or sequence of events going. If we were to make a bare-bones outline, maybe then we could just then flesh out our scenes and sub-create where necessary. I'm till keen on keeping our movie as close to the book story (and sequence of action) as possible. This might end up meaning we take a scalpel to what you've done and re-position the 'bits' to where they'll fit better chronologically. :ugeek: I think you're pretty close anyway - but I just want to give it a try and see if it will help simplify the process for us. If we can agree on a basic outline, then we can return to our scene-making. (I hope you don't think I'm making a scene by suggesting this!!!??? :oops: )

I' ll do the first first pages and see how I go. Then post it here for the perusal (approval?) of everyone. :mrgreen:

Odo
Things sorting themselves out nicely. I'm keen to hear your views GB and Tin!

Odo
GB and Tin, I'm a bit tied up at moment and don't know when I'll be able to get back to this, so please keep going! (Busy expanding number of Junior Teams for my Basketball Club - lots of phone calls and e-mailings!) (You've got SCENE ONE done, Tin, maybe you should try SCENE TWO?)

Back soon... Will pop in when I can. Hopefully won't be too long away...

Odo

NB Tin, I have posted my revision on the Script thread. Hope you like it. I've kept your other bits for future use! Hope you like my suggestions so far. Please feel free to keep what you did, or change what I've done if you basically like what I've done but want to improve it.

After Gorlim gets captured (SCENE TWO?), I'd like him to show the meeting with Sauron (SCENE THREE?) and use Tolkien's actual dialogue. I have written a snippet of dialogue in an earlier post somewhere, which we might use to flesh out the scene.

Anyhow, good luck. Back with this as soon as I can!

Cheers.
Wow! this topic sort of dropped! I think we should pick it back up again after the hype goes down with the Hobbit Movie abit because this is a very interesting topic. Shall we promise not to forget it?
Odo's a little busy now with coaching, getting ready for Christmas etc.But he dropped me a line and said he'd pop back in again when things got a little less hectic and people started posting more here again. By the way, go to the Born of Hope thread and check out the link for this new fan film. You'll love it Tinuviel. And maybe it'll give you some ideas.

[b:3ela0ur4]GB[/b:3ela0ur4]
I saw trailers for it! oh goodee! thnkee GB! :mrgreen:
I really hope this thread hasn't dropped off completely, I've been unable to read all the posts till now, with school and all, I can hardly ever get time to look at the hobbit news. What you guys started is great work and I can't believe how you got through ideas so well. I'm not a scene writer or storyboarder in any sense but I would try to help in any possible way, though I probably couldn't help as much as I wish I could. I'm off to get the Silmarillion from the library. I can't wait till I own it for myself. Keep up the good work.
What with one thing and another, I haven't done anything with this for awhile, but I haven't forgotten it.

Last I posted here I suggested someone else might add a new bit, but as no one has risen to the bait, I thought I might at least add an idea I've had.

In regard to Beren befriending 'wild' things, maybe he could save a baby hawk (or eagle, or a thrush, or a raven, or similar) who he trains to help him spy out his enemies. He might even save a bear-cub or fox, or whatever, to sniff out the same. This would in some way address this 'befriending' business and so honor Tolkien's story hints.

These "helping" hunter-animals and their activities could be done reasonably realistically, and with only a little bit of disbelief suspension needed. I've always found this 'befriending' business intriguing. Were they his soul-mates, locker-room buddies, or just companions to ease the loneliness? Helpful hunters is an idea I think that would work. After all, Beren is up against it and all on his lonesome.

Of course, we would have to kill them off or set them free before Beren flees Dorthonion, as they would be an unnecessary intrusion later in the story.

Anyway, just a thought.

Odo
Whatever it was it's gone now. Was it Greek?

Odo
I"m not to sure... odd!
? What was that?
It was some kind of Balkan Spam <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> . The Cyrillic alphabet is based on the Greek alphabet but has numerous distinctions. It is used for many Eastern European languages, including Serbian and Russian, and also for a number of Central Asian languages of the Caucasus Region.

[b:m0flrkss]GB[/b:m0flrkss]
I wanted to revisit this, because the wheels have been turning in my brain again and ideas r coming out :idea:
If we still want to go with the flashback beginning idea, I think it would be very artistic if when he saw something, such as a crow or maybe a group of _______, it reminds him of the previous events.
I'll probably write something soon, so if your confused, hoepfully u won't be. But I'm not going to let this drop because I have a lot of faith in it. We'll see wat i come up with... <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' /> :lol: :mrgreen:
Looking forward to it Tinuviel 8-) . I've been a bit too busy to do any heavy posting myself. But I might join back in if you or Odo get the ball rolling again <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

[b:2ptor9o2]GB[/b:2ptor9o2]
For Huan, maybe he'd look like this dog. Its some kind of dog, KK are the initials of its name, that is certainly big and fearful enough to be a model of the mighty hound <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
[img:3pypdq8q]http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/qw7zOoJsY_I/0.jpg[/img:3pypdq8q]
* Kurdish Kangal Dog
I dunno. Looks kinda cuddly to me. But then, most dogs do.
After re-reading Beren and Luthien, and doing a little online research, I am fairly certain that Huan would have been akin to an Irish Wolfhound. They are some of the largest dogs on the planet, sometimes reaching the size of a pony. One could easily see them being ridden. Built like a Greyhound, they are very fast. And they were used not only to hunt and kill wolves, but also by the Irish to take down soldiers on horseback. Very loyal, gentle with children, yet fierce warriors.

[url:qoug636x]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Wolfhound[/url:qoug636x]

[img:qoug636x]http://www.nahgfaimages.com.au/sydneyroyal2008/25032008/images/Irish%20Wolfhound.jpg[/img:qoug636x]

[img:qoug636x]http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/irish-wolfhound-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/irish-wolfhound-0009.jpg[/img:qoug636x]

[img:qoug636x]http://www.windhundwelt.de/images/!!irish-wolfhound-095.jpg[/img:qoug636x]

And researching Irish dog names I found Luath as one of the Irish warrior Cu Chulainn's dogs. And I also found Cuan meaning hound or wolf. I think this clinches it. It seems to me clearly, that as a linguist Tolkien was referencing the Celtic Myths and Language in naming his "Wolfhound" Huan.

Though I am now certain that Tolkien had Irish Wolfhounds in mind when writing Huan; after some more research, I think the Kurdish Kangal Dog could fill the role as well Tinuviel. They also (along with Great Danes and Irish Wolfhounds) rank among the world's biggest and tallest dogs, and they have historically been used to guard sheep from wolves.

[b:qoug636x]GB[/b:qoug636x]
Yep, I think we've got our hound, guys! But bigger (on steroids?)

Odo
Exactly :mrgreen: .

[b:1a4glsf2]GB[/b:1a4glsf2]
Hello All first of all sorry if the topic in the wrong section (frekin noob in forums lol)

This is Mssslife from Saudi Arabia <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

I am happy to be between you guys and I hope I can be a helpful person with my contributing in this forum

Looking forward to see some replies

At last hope you accept me as a new welcomed friends here <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

And yeah thanks for having me ^^

[b:r9ruuy26]Mohammad Saleh[/b:r9ruuy26]
Nice to meet you my friend. You are most welcome in this place. Post away wherever you want to, to begin with. Gandalf's Beard can move your posts around if necessary until you find your feet here.

You'll find Gandalf's Beard always ready to help - and me always ready to offer his help.

Cheers
Odo
Hello Mohammed. We welcome anyone that wishes to discuss Tolkien or any vaguely related topics.

But SPAM is not allowed.

Please feel free to join in with any of the ongoing conversations. We love having a diversity of opinion here.

[b:2cxrlw4z]GB[/b:2cxrlw4z]
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