Thread: BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE MOVIE): directors and actors
    >>
It's a big project, so if someone's got a spare three or four hundred million laying about, please contact me (then we could get really serious!)
Pending the cash input, what say we begin by looking at potential actors?
We'll need Beren and Luthien, of course. And Sauron, who is not only a fallen angel of sorts, but also a werewolf - is that right? And Huan the Hound. And Thingol! Oh! And don't forget Morgoth!
A suitable Director needs to be found too, of course.
Does anyone have starting suggestions?
NB I'm not interested in making a "B" Grade Movie. This one is for the Tolkien Purist!
Luthien....hmmm...how about Jessica Alba? (because Luthien is supposed to be like the greatest beauty of all time (though I always imagined Galadriel was the best when I was reading all the books... ) and...well...you can't get much hotter than Jessica Alba!
The scene I would most love to see from the book?
It would have to be the army of Balrogs (can you imagine that???!!! COOL!!!!) battling Ungoliant!
I was warned before reading Silmarillion that it was very dense and hard to read...but I actually found it really exciting reading. I don't have my old copy of it so I might have to go to the bookstore and buy a new copy and read it again. I love book shopping!!!
Jessica is Hot, Hot, Hot, and she was awesome as Sue Storm and Dark Angel, but does she have the Gravitas (and the accent) to play such a heavy role? Just asking!!!
I must look up my directors! I don't kow Ridley, but of course I've seen some of his movies. (I didn't like Gladiator, GB! Nor Braveheart either - which strikes me as having the same feel to me - so forget Mel both as Director or Actor! Didn't like Troy either - but I'm wandering...)
Jessica Alba - beautiful! But would she be a little old for Luthien? Which begs the question, we know Luthien is old in years, but how old would she look in mortal terms. A girl in the first bloom of full womanhood? Yes, I'm out of my depth here. Whatever the case, please not a Kate Blanchett Galadiel-type. Great actress, poor Galadriel! Made her seem a bit silly!
Sauron (if a werwolf??) could be anyone in gear, but please not Wolverine!! In angelic form? Some tall gent. Maybe the ladies on this forum might be good choosers on this. Must be slim and almost feminine in his beauty, I think. Hmm... just a thought. Angels are beautiful, aren't they?
Beren would require a Viggo type. In fact, maybe Viggo might even be a better Beren than an Aragorn. (Yes, I know we can't have Liv and Viggo - more's the pity!!! I think they would be great for a Purist Silmarillion!)
Who might voice Huan the Hound? Rhys-Davies? Does Huan talk? I can't remember...
No idea on Morgoth yet.
NB Too lazy to look it up. Did Sauron ever take a werewolf form?
Considering Aragorn and Arwen are a sort of "latter day" Beren and Luthien, why not have Liv and Viggo fill the roles? Sure, it might confuse some people, but it would be poetic. (Jessica Alba is still quite young by the way ).
Sauron in his demigod form could be played by Tilda Swinton (the White Witch, but also the Archangel Gabriel pulling a Lucifer in the film Constantine). Believe me, she has that androgynous quality. There is also David Bowie, but he is to old for the part now. Hmmm, come to think about it Cate Blanchett might be better as Sauron than Galadriel (she did quite a turn as Bob Dylan, indeed many critics thought she gave the best performance as Bob Dylan in the film I'm Not There which featured 6 actors playing Bob during different periods of his life).
Sauron does turn into a werewolf and gets a thorough walloping by Huan (after a dandy of a battle!)
This would be a brilliant movie. One movie. Four hours should do it. Romance, violence, tragedy, good elves, not so nice elves, balrogs, bats, werewolves, dark lords (two of ém!) - enough foul villains to satisfy even PJ, I reckon.
Must say: talk about romantic power. Daeron loves Luthien and hates Beren. Celegorm loves Luthien and hates Beren. Even Thingol hates Beren. Luckily, Huan comes to love them both! (And of course B and L love each other!)
And as to Finrod Felagund. What a noble Elf!
Checked the bank balance. I reckon I could put up fifty bucks. Only about $399,999,050 to go! (Might have to do some overtime one thinks!)
Anyway, I must get back and finish this tale. If I remember correctly, it's one of the rare Silmarillion stories that has a (reasonably) happy ending - at least for Beren and Luthien! Thank goodness!
The guy who plays Lucius Malfoy to play Celegorm?
The White Witch to play the Dark Lord (Mark 2: Sauron)? Why not?
NB Oh yes, Huan talks THREE times!
Let's try not to hire Michael Bay, Spielberg or Lucas though . No offense to them, but they are all too over-the-top nowadays. Very little subtlety left in them (not that Bay ever had any), though War of the Worlds showed that Spielberg still has the vision and the chops when he puts his mind to it.
And forget a crap CGI Hollywood Werewolf, only real wolves for this flick. And what a great role for "Lucius" Odo--good call.
Christopher would love to hear from us, I'm sure. We wouldn't take liberties!
Hey! How could a Producer say no to us? Especially as you reckon we can do it for only 250 million. Cheap at the price. (I only hope not too cheap! We're talking about Tolkien, GB).
NB Got the Two Towers on as I write, and yes, Liv would definitely be a good candidate for Luthien. Not so sure about Aragorn now though.
I still like my idea for Luthien...if I chip in another $50 can we choose Jessica over Liv?
I've seen Tilda play Gabrielle and the White Witch, and she certainly can pull off an androgynous role! I also like the idea of Cate Blanchett as the sensual fair Sauron. Don't get me wrong, I really like Cate as an actor, but I was pretty disappointed she got Galadriel. But I agree she could pull off Sauron. Overall, I'd suggest Cate.
Are you sure you could fit it all into one movie? Might have more luck selling it to the studios if it were in multi-parts. Everyone's in love with trilogies!
Whatever we do, don't have George Lucas anywhere near the script. He'll kill any romantic scene between Beren and Luthien with lines like
"I don't like sand, it is rough, I like you, you're smooth."
Our financing concerns may soon be over. Don't spread this outside this forum, but I just got a desperate plea of help from the daughter of an ex-dictator in Nigeria who is looking for someone in Australia who she can wire $2.1 billion to!
And even adjusted for inflation the LotR films didn't make it onto the 25 most expensive films list (the cut-off was 150 million). If I remember correctly, by filming them all at once, Jackson managed to keep costs at roughly 100 million apiece. So a bloated budget isn't necessary for a quality production.
And if you're not into Viggo Odo, how about that chappie who plays Wolverine ?
And funnily enough I got an email from a Nigerian princess too .
As much as I love Alba, she merely makes me horny. Liv Tyler made my heart break. But tell you what, if Liv turns us down we'll have Jessica as a stand in . She's going to have to undergo some serious training though, to get her accent up to speed. I'd rather have Natalie Portman, who is beautiful, can pull off a perfect British accent, and has an incredible acting range. She can make me cry too (though in Star Wars it was because Lucas squandered her talents).
Natalie Portman? Yes, good thought, GB. But Jessica's in now, we need the money - thanks PK. (Sorry Liv - I'm all for you, it's just a business decision. Mind you, if you had, say, $100 Liv... Come on, I know you're as smart as you're beautiful - you can work it out!)
Cate could be Melian perhaps. But no goofy smiles or statements like: "I would be beautiful, beautiful but pretty darn nasty with it, especially if I had a golden ring!" Or whatever it is she said in LOTR. (Yes, and no sudden color changes either or stormy stuff around her head! Eek!)
The Wolverine guy... Yes, yes, yes! (Without the Wolverine bit, of course!) He'd make a good Beren. He can actually act. Shame about Wolverine... but can act.
As an economy measure, I could be persuaded to be an extra, no charge.
I reckon I'd make a good villager clad in rags shoveling muck in the background somewhere in the movie. I'd have wild hair and a wilder beard which I'd grow on leave. I could also be a rock too - I've a good shape for that kind of thing. All we need is a grey blanket - which we could use for other purposes too; three or four actors could sleep under it on location. Jessica could fit - and Natalie (as an extra) and Liv (as another extra) and.. well, me I guess.
I think this idea is really beginning to take off!
As to those Croatian chaps - I like the cut of your jib. Great idea. (So long as they don't use real swords. We want to cut down on First Aid costs - forgive the pun!) They certainly sound bloodthirsty enough for the First Age!
1. Whoever said Natalie Portamn should be Luthien was dead on. She's BEAUTIFUL, and i don't want to see Liv Tyler again, she's Arwen, not luthien...
2. As Beren, I think Colin Farell perhaps...He seems kind of Rugged
3. LOTR was done for a low amount of money, and this can as well, if we can find dedicated, experienced fans in the film business who would want to work on the movie offering their services for a little amount of money, then we could DEFINITELY pull this off.
4. The director, I believe, should be unknown, someone who wants to do their best job their first time, and will really put their heart and soul into it. I'm still very young, (14 actually) but I plan on becoming a director or screen writer in 5 years or so, going to one of the top film schools in the country. I would LOVE to direct this movie someday, but for me that's at least 6 years away... so someone else would be IDEAL if we were to begin this soon...
5. It all depends on who you know. If you know people who are experienced with CGI, or who are blooming film makers, hire them, because they aren't aloof and successful YET, and will take any job such as this with the highest respect.
http://www.inmirror.com/files/imagecach ... ley1_0.jpg
If we really want to attempt something like this as a "fan Film", it may be worthwhile approaching the folk who made The Hunt For Gollum and getting them on board. Then for the CGI work it would be necessary to find a team of CGI artists who would be willing to work for free.
Now, I would love to rope in some experienced actors and an experienced director, but it's hard to find successful artists who would be willing to essentially work for free. So the question we have decide if we were serious about this, is do we just want to just make a "fan film", or do we want to make a commercial film which is bankrolled by, and made for, dedicated Tolkien Fans?
Odo's original post suggests the latter. Fan Films are great, but it would seem we would like all the benefits of a Huge Hollywood production, without the headaches of Studio control of the product. So assuming a group of fans could raise the capital, and obtain the rights from the Tolkien estate (two huge "ifs", we would then be tasked with enticing some serious talent (including Natalie Portman). And finding an experienced director with vision who would be willing to follow the story to the Letter as well as "Spirit". I think this means we would have to try and obtain a director who was experienced in this sort of thing. But that doesn't necessarily mean a Hollywood director. Dragon Wars was a Korean production (with unfortunately weak characterizations), but was visually brilliant. So it might be possible to find someone outside of Hollywood with what we would need.
Tinuviel, the pre-production process for a Big Movie (and this would be) can take years, especially if it's a group of people starting from zilch. If it takes five (even ten years) to begin filming, then you could be a candidate yourself as Director. I bet PJ started out with the nutty idea he could become a big time director, so why not you? (I know you would pay the story proper respect!)
Make no mistake, this thread is fun, but some of the suggestions for Director and Actor seem more than reasonable to me. My suggestions (amid all the corny jokes) are serious suggestions. I'm a fantasy writer myself (unpublished, aren't we all, alas!) and if someone wanted me to write a script for this movie, I'd have a crack at it. I'd need it to be a fair dinkum movie, though; I need to eat and would have to earn a wage while doing so.
At the moment we've got pledges for $100.00 (thanks again PK!), so I haven't got the pen out yet, and maybe there would be someone better qualified than me to write it anyway (it's possible, you know!).
Yes, we've got a fair way to go. But, well, who knows?
As to Keira - nah - Natalie before Keira. Your pictures were nice, Tinuviel - but both ladies were a bit tanned-up and made-up for my liking. We would have scrape off the goo, I feel. My daughter is a dancer and she gets made-up, and looks beautiful from a distance on the dance floor, but up close, the make-up doesn't look anywhere near as nice. So it'll have to be light make-up for the close-ups, thank you very much. Yes, we would need to "naturalize" K and N before we could seriously consider either!
GB, I'd really like a movie where even the CGI looks natural. Some of the LOTR stuff seemed cartoony to me. We want our CGI to be indistinguishable from real life footage. Our budget may be low at the moment, but our standards must remain high!
Anyway, back to business! Any suggestions for Morgoth? Is anyone game enough to try and suggest someone?
Though when I look back at the Matrix sequels (regardless of what else one may think about them), it is remarkable how realistic they were. One is hard-pressed to find anything to complain about, and they hold up extremely well next to more recent Behemoths like Transformers. I feel much the same way about (most of) the CGI heavy sequences in TT and RotK.
And I agree, by the time we might seriously be able to get something like this off the ground, Tinuviel could well be on her way to becoming the director of this possible project .
And I totally agree about the makeup,...ick . A little goes a long way. Here's to Portman getting the part.
Edit: I am sure when I get my finances stabilized I could contribute $50 too. Of course it would be nice to also have a paying role in the production (maybe art or music director).
As I'm sure you would be in the top ten art and music directors in the world, I'm sure you'll get a guernsey; but not both tasks. Too big a job, even for a clever Beard like you! (I hope I'm not offending you by saying it?!)
I'm also warming to the idea of you directing, Tinuviel! But please bear in mind, I expect there will be a deluge of applications when the wider world gets wind of this project! (I'm not saying PJ, or Tarantino, or Spielberg would do a better job than you, but they certainly know a lot of producers).
No one has tackled Morgoth yet? Too hard? What about Thingol, or Curufin, or even Gorlim? ... the voice for Huan ....?
Your other queries will require me to read the story again before I can sensibly answer them.
[quote="Tinuviel":28mq8lvz]3. LOTR was done for a low amount of money, and this can as well, if we can find dedicated, experienced fans in the film business who would want to work on the movie offering their services for a little amount of money, then we could DEFINITELY pull this off. [/quote:28mq8lvz]
Are you kidding?! The main budget of LOTR was $270,000,000 (that's millions) and all told it was probably over $300 M. It was by no means a low-budget effort, and any subsequent Middle-earth based movies would have to be as spectacular (and in all likelihood as costly) so that audiences would not be let down by the "sophomore slump" of the franchise.
I started this thread so we could fantasize about possible directors and actors for BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE MOVIE).
Seeing you seem interested in the idea, I'll start a BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION) thread.
See you there maybe???
NB Have finished reading the tale about Beren and Luthien and plan to read it again. Can't get Morgoth out of my mind. I must find that actor! A godly type, I think. But can a human truly look godly?
And for the record, I think the less make up the better (for NP and KK) it's just that I found that picture comparing the two and I had to share it. Oooooo! THis is so exciting!
This morning I woke up with an inspiration.
How about that lead singer from Corrs as Luthien!
She has very dark hair, white skin and is an uncommon beauty.
And she would have a lovely Irish accent.
As for Morgoth....forgive my ignorance but it's been a long while since I read the Silmarillion...what was the description of his appearance? Is he going to be like Sauron and covered in armour? In which case it doesn't really matter WHO plays him as long as they are physically imposing...though I guess you need the voice....(could have multiple actors involved, like Darth Vader)
Actually, Morgoth strikes me as a bit of a cowardly type, so hiding behind armor might suit him (pun not intended!) At least in the Silmarilllion Sauron gets out and mixes it a bit with his enemies!
Mind you, I suppose these kinds of thoughts should go in the ADAPTATION thread.
Anyway, none of this answers your question, PK. Who, indeed, should play Morgoth?
The Corr girl might be good. Let's add her to our list of possibles.
Alexis Bledel. If dressed appropriately, I see her completely at one with nature...
Cleo Sertori, very natural as well. She's australian I believe...
http://www.videoclubmadison.com/img/act ... tonkin.jpg
Both are young and beautiful without much make up....
That's what we're looking for right?
(And are good actors...)
we would have to audition her for sure, but yes... i think she's a good choice to
What about beren? who do you GENTLEMEN have in mind?
Though, come to think about it, now that Skandar Keynes (Edmund) is getting older, he would be the perfect age by the time we might be able to get this off the ground, and he is a brilliant young actor. He can do sympathetic and seething, tragic and passionate.
I also like the young actors on the TV show Merlin very much: Colin Morgan (Merlin) and Bradley James (Arthur). They also both have an air of tragedy about them.
Anyway, just a couple of ideas.
Those guys from Merlin I'm just not sure about.
Skandar Keynes (great name that!) might make a good Gorlim. He could easily cut a lovelorn desperate figure, I think.
I don't know Russell Brand, so will have to research him.
If Keynes were much older I could see him as Gorlim. But it's a small part as he would be killed off very quickly.
I just threw the Merlin Guys in because I personally think they are awesome . But it's a bit of a low budget programme, so not everyone might feel as I do.
Speaking of Merlin, how about the guy that plays Uther (I think his name is Anthony Head)? Perhaps as Barahir?
Russell Brand is a bit out of left-field, as he usually plays humourous roles. However his role in Primeval expanded as the series went on. If you find one of the later episodes online, check it out and let me know what you think. I've seen him with long hair and a scraggy beard, he looks like stepped right out of a Medieval or Renaissance Fair.
If its Keynes, does it matter if he's killed off early? The idea is to have the best actor for all our roles. we're making a Classic movie, remember!
We must feel something for Gorlim. Good acting is the only answer to that!
I don't watch Merlin, (except in passing), so I don't know the guy who plays Uther. Is Merlin actually any good? Looks kind of boring to me.
I'll check for Russell Brand.
Oh yes, I like Ben Barnes for Beren - but let's not be hasty...
What I like about Merlin is it's a complete revisioning of the old Arthurian Romances. I'm tempted to say that it's an Alternate Universe version, but everyone has always put their own spin on the Myth anyway. Also it's a nice blend of humour and drama, and the characters are all well done. The special effects are second tier (though frankly todays second rate is yesteryears top-rate). There isn't always a lot of combat, hence it can seem slow if compared to the high octane intensity of American TV. But it makes up for less action by actually having good stories and good acting.
That's why I like the main characters, they actually draw you in and make you care about them. But I can understand why some people aren't into the show.
I'm not certain, but you might be able to find episodes of Primeval online.
Yea! It's Morgoth I worry about!
For some reason I see him as more earthly than Sauron, maybe even dirty looking in his armour, as he sits hunched slightly on his fire-lit throne with his head held down (physically and spiritually) by the weight of his iron Silmaril-encrusted crown. But who, Old Son, who should play him?
This IS difficult! What about the guy who played the mouth of Sauron? every time I think of Morgoth, his character in the movie shows up.
As for Beren... He needs to be a little older (30s i would say) and still has his youth, is handsome, and rugged. Therefore, I still think Colin Farell.
If Beren is about thirty, then his father would be at least fifty I would have thought. I don't know, but I feel Barahir would be still pretty robust, maybe forty to forty five? Maybe Beren was twenty to twenty five? In the antique times we're talking about, I would have thought a hard mortal life would also have meant a fairly short one. Folk would age and wear out quite swiftly. A twenty year old in Dorthonion who was being hunted by Orcs and other beasties day and night might physically be like a thirty year old before long -it's not like his life was pampered in any way. What do you think?
I don't know Michael Sheen and will have to look up that gent. Bruce Spence (the Mouth of Sauron) I'm not sure would be right, though The Mouth's disusting qualities sit with my feelings about Morgoth. I think this could contrast nicely with Sauron's Maian beauty, for I imagine Sauron, in the early days, was fell but beautiful. (I'm not sure how far this idea would accord with the text, but I think for the movie it might be prudent to have Morgoth and Sauron be quite different outwardly).
I don't know of any really good bad guys other than Sauron, nor any good bad guy actors, other than Christopher Lee...
What about Gerard Butler? He was the phantom in phantom of the opera and that guy in law abiding citizen... He has the voice, and make up is always available...
Since Sauron should look angelic yet terrrible, how about Eric Bana?
Though I could see him as any number of other characters.
How about Bill Nighy as Morgoth. He's REALLY Horrorshow in the Underworld films.
We need someone darn pretty for Sauron. Did someone suggest a female actor sometime? I think you did, GB. Though the White Witch might seem a bit severe somehow. Sauron is a seductive figure (think of the way he seduced Celebrimbor much later on), so perhaps he should look kind of innocent.
Hey! What a great part this would be for a beautiful young female actor. The combination of (almost) naive beauty and innate evil. Wow! And what if Sauron never shows anything but sweet innocence even when he's doing the most horrid things - as if he knows no Sin! Wow again, I say - Wow! (His Pure and Open evil can come out in the Second or Third Age - time enough for that!)
I'm so excited I think it best I go lie down awhile.
Did you see Eric Bana as the "Evil" Romulan in the Star Trek reboot Odo? That character seems to embody your description. Still, I'd prefer someone more Craggy and Sinister. I can't recall the name of Bill Nighy's vampire character in Underworld, but Google it for an image of him in that part...gives me the willies just thinking of him.
We MUST NOT dumb this movie down to suit any Heathen-type people. I keep saying, Tolkien trusted in his tales - so should we! I also think "Of Beren and Luthien" is very filmable, and this with very very little sub-creating.
GB. I don't know Mr Nighy, but I do like the direction you're taking regards Morgoth.
Yours faithfully, with Fundamentalist hat on,
And Bill Nighy seems a little too old... I think Morgoth should be (human wise) like a 45 year old who is strongly built because of carrying the silmarils.