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The opening posts from this thread were lost in tranferral from the old site but I have recovered them here.

I began the thread with


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One of my favourite stories that emerges from the Silmarillion, without actually being a story in its own right, is the tale behind the Ring of Barahir. This ring featured in many of the events that took place in the Silmarillion, and LotR, but never received the recognition it's younger siblings received.

Originally the ring belonged to Finrod Felagund and had been forged by the Noldor back in Valinor. During the Battle of Dagor Bragollach, Finrod was cut off from his men and it was the Edain, Barahir who fought his way to Finrod's side and rescued him. Finrod gave him the ring has a pledge for later aid should Barahir or his kin need it.

Later when Barahir was slain in Dorthonion, his hand bearing the ring was cut off as proof of his death, but his son, Beren, managed to rescue both the ring and the hand. He later took the ring to Nargothrond during his quest for the Silmarils, and Finrod fulfilled his pledge by going with Beren on this quest. When they were captured by Sauron, and thrown in the dungeons of Minas Tirith, Finrod gave his life to save Beren from a werewolf.

Preserved by Dior and Elwing, the ring survived the end of the First Age and came into the hands of the Faithful of Numenor during the Second Age. To come here, it must have been given to Elros by his father Earendil.

Having survived the downfall of Numenor, it became a heirloom of the North Kingdom in Middle Earth. After the fall of Arthedain, however, King Arvedui fled North and was rescued by the Lossoth, the primitive men living in the Northern Wastes. For saving his life Arvedui gave the ring to the chief of the Lossoth, saying it would be randsomed for great wealth if they returned it to his people. He then took a ship that Cirdan had sent North to find him, which promptly sank in the ice, drowning him.

The Lossoth returned the ring south, and as Arvedui had told them, the Dunedain ransomed it. It was then kept at Rivendell as one of the heirlooms of the North Kingdom, and so was eventually given to Aragorn when he came of age and his heritage was revealed to him.

Fashioned as two serpents with emerald eyes, one supporting and the other devouring a crown of golden flowers, it is this ring that he can be seen wearing in the films.

The story of this ring is not told in one place, and you have to follow its path through your own research in many places, but I think its history is one of the best stories never to be written. While its younger siblings from the Second Age grab all the glory, it remains one of those special jewels you occasionally uncover.


Thingol77 replied with

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GEE,MAN, THAT IS ONE HELL OF A RESEARCH.
I SHARE YOUR OPINION ABOUT PEOPLE NOT GIVING THE RIGHT VALUE TO THOSE STORIES.

HOWEVER,THAT WAS AN AWESOME RESEARCH.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING IT WITH US.





Thanks Thingol77. It was one of those things which I noticed last year... a ring that kept cropping up throughout Middle Earth history. It has a beautiful heritage, and I think its story would make a great film in its own right.

What I have written above is obviously only a very brief summary of the actual events. That is one of the wonderful things about Tolkien, though. You are able to pursue avenues of research that actually take you somewhere. It was while researching the ring that I discovered much about Arvedui which I did not know before.

There are so many great stories hidden away, just waiting to be untangled.
That is a great tale Val. I remember the ring going to Beren but didn't tie it to Aragorn's inherited ring. Thanks.

Rather than making the story of this ring into a movie, I think it's epic nature could better be handled as a mini-series comprised of one or two hour segments the numbers of each to suit the portion of the story being told. Of course this could also be the framework upon which to hang the entire Silmarillion.
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Of course this could also be the framework upon which to hang the entire Silmarillion.
That is the one thing that struck me most about this ring. With the exception of the tales concerning Turin and his kin, it's history wove a path through most of the major events that occurred in the Silmarillion. I was really pleased to see Aragorn was wearing it in the film.

I like the idea of a mini-series. It would work really well. Maybe someone should write a suggestive email to Mr PJ.

I'd like to know who actually forged it, though. The twin serpents with a crown of flowers was the emblem of the House of Finarfin. Feanor, whose grandson Celebrimbor forged the later Rings of Power, had a frosty relationship with his two half-brothers so I don't think it was made by him or his sons.

Finrod was great friends with Turgon, who himself was a great craftsman (he forged Glingal and Belthil, in the likeness of the Two Trees), so I suppose Turgon is a possibility. If anyone actually knows who forged this ring, I'd love to know.
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As far as I know, the ring does not have any magical properties, it's value being in its heritage alone. That is most probably why Sauron did not try to get of of it.


You're definitely right about that Val! Here is a quote directly from page 352, appendix A in ROTK,
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This is a thing of worth beyond your reckoning. For it's ancientry alone. It has no power, save for the esteem in which those hold it who love my house. It will not help you, but if ever you are in need, my kin will ransom it with great store of all that you desire.

Elf Smilie

[Edited on 19/5/2003 by Elfstone]
Which translation of the Illiad did you read, Sepdet? Robert Fitzgerald has one of the best out there. I read both Illiad and Odyssey from Fitz for one of my lit classes. But you're right Val, Sauron wouldn't really have need of something that more of a symbolic significance. He's looking for power.
Val do you have any sources where it says WHO made the ring of Barahir?
I am very interested in the creation and history of this magnificient ring which survived threw all these years!!!
Sorry, Aule, but that's something I'd like to find out too. As I mentioned in the above posts, it was forged by the Noldor in Valinor, but I cannot find out specifically by whom.

As the Noldor returned to Middle Earth just prior to the beginning of the First Age, it must have been made during the Age of the Two Trees, and was thus ancient.

If I find anything further as I plough through the HOME series, I'll add it here.
What are these HOMEbooks you keep refering to?
Me no speaka inglesBig Smile Smilie

HAHAHHAA no but seriously I do not know what you are refering to Val....please explain!
Thanks Perwing!
But check out this site: http://www.tolkientown.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=705

it is extremely nice...The ring of Barahir I mean.....I´d like to have one of those!
Anything on the history on the Scepter of Annuminas? I know the basics but how about an in depth run through of it? Probably not as ancient as the ring though, huh?
Certainly not, since it was made in Annuminas the capital of Numenor and not by the Noldor in Valinor. I don't know when it was made or who made it, though
It's not as old as the ring but by the end of the Third Age, it was said to be the single most ancient object fashioned by Men's hands then in existence. A silver rod, it originally belonged to the Lords of Andunie in Numenor, and so by the end of the Third Age it was over 5000 years old.
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since it was made in Annuminas the capital of Numenor
I think you may be getting a little confused here, Virumor. Annuminas was the capital of Arnor not Numenor. The scepter was forged in Numenor, but it was taken to Middle Earth by Elendil after the destruction of Numenor. After the death of Elendil, Isildur took it North to Annuminas, but after the fall of the North Kingdom, it was kept by Elrond at Rivendell for its safekeeping. He gave it to Elessar after the War of the Ring to be a symbol of the Reunited Kingdom.
Yeah i kinda mixed up the names there.
It should have been Armenelos instead of course.
Hey Val! The Sceptre of Annuminas was that the thing that Aragorn got from Elladan and Elrohir when they came to join him in the aid of Gondor and Arwen had wrapt it up in a blanket? Or was that Andúril? Or did he really get Andúril after he had left Rivendell with Frodo and the rest of the fellowship?
From the passing of the Grey Company
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And Aragorn said to Halbarad : "What is that that you bear, Kinsman?" For he saw that instead of a spear he bore a tall staff, as if it were a standard, but it was close-furled in a black cloth bound about with many thongs.
It was of course the standard which Arwen had sewn for him.
OH OKAY!!! Thanks Perwing....That´s right.....Of course he got the sceptre at his crowning!DÖH!!! My fault Perry!
I might be wrong too but i thought Aragorn carried Anduril with him (it was used in the battle in Balin's tomb in Moria) but the scepter was brought by Elrond at Midsummer. According to Numenorean custom, the scepter, not so much the crown, was the symbol of postAuthorIDity and kingship. I can't remember what Elladan and Elrohir brought with them from the top of my head.
Oh well! okey!
And Andúril was reforged from the shards of Narsil and presented to Aragorn prior to the Fellowship ever taking leave from Rivendell.

It was PJ who got the timing off in his movies. I don't know why the movie Boromir was told to: "Seek for the sword that was broken: In Imladrils it dwells; ..." and after hearing Aragorn's prophesy: "Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king." they left without the darned thing. Doesn't make sense to me, but I didn't gamble the big bucks, so I guess it isn't my place to do anything but await the coming of Andúril in the movie and see if it makes for better entertainment PJ's way.

But this was really about the septre not the sword, about The Silmarillion, not the movies. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

[Edited on 5/4/2003 by Grondmaster]
What other ancient artifacts of great significance is there in ME? I'd be very much interested in learning the ancestry of anything in LOTR that can be traced back to the Elder Days.
Okay, Uruk, lets try the history of a couple of gems...

The Elessar.
In the film we see Arwen give Aragorn a green gem, set in a brooch shaped like an eagle with outspread wings. This is the Elessar stone.
Tolkien wrote two accounts of this stone, and depending on which one you follow, there may be either a single Elessar or two of them.

The original was made in Gondolin by a smith named Enerdhil, said to be the greatest Noldor smith after Feanor (although another account has Celebrimbor as the creator). This gem was made for Idril, daughter of Turgon. When she passed over the sea with Tuor, she gave this gem to Earendil. He later took it on the voyage with him, and it was lost forever to Middle Earth. This gem apparently had powers of healing, able to restore much of the damage Melkor had done to the land.

The second Elessar was supposedly made by Celebrimbor in Eregion prior to the forging of the rings of power. This he made for Galadriel to lessen the pain she was feeling for the decline and decay of Middle Earth. Celebrimbor made this gem for her because he loved her, even though she had chosen Celeborn. Like the Elessar taken over the sea by Earendil, this gem was said to have had the power of healing too. Galadriel wielded it to grow all things fair, until she was sent Nenya, after which she gave the Elessar to her daughter, Celebrian. This was then passed onto Arwen, and from her to Aragorn.

In another account of this gem, there is only a single Elessar. In this tale it is taken over the sea by Earendil, as in the first tale, but is then returned to Middle Earth by Gandalf. Again Galadriel is grieving the fading of Middle Earth, and Gandalf brings her the stone as a gift from Yavanna. The stone not only aids healing the forests around her, but also serves to remind her that Middle Earth has not truely been forsaken by the Valar.

The Elendilmir.
The Elendilmir, or Star of Elendil, was the crown of Arnor (although the chief emblem of royalty was through the Sceptre of Annuminas). It was a single white gem bound to the brow by a slender fillet of mithril, but like the Elessar, it appears there were two Elendilmir stones as well.

The first was given to Tar-Elendil, the fourth king of Numenor, by the elves of Middle Earth. This he gave to his daughter Silmarien of Audunie, where it became a heirloom of their house, and so passed down to Elendil and then to Isildur.

This gem was lost with Isildur during the disaster at the Battle of the Gladden Fields, along with the One Ring. Interestingly, when Isildur used the ring to cover his escape, it was said he had to cover the Elendilmir with his cloak as its light shone through the power of the ring when it was uncovered.

After the loss of this first Elendilmir, a second stone was made for Isildur's son, Valandil, by the elves of Rivendell. This one became known as the Star of the Dunedain, and eventually was passed down to Aragorn.

After the defeat of Saruman, a close search of Orthanc revealed a hidden vault in which two items were discovered. One was a golden case large enough to hold a ring on a chain, while the other was the lost Elendilmir. It seems Saruman had perhaps discovered Isildur's remains in his search for the One Ring, but thanks to Gollum, the ring had eluded him.

Rightfully Aragorn took this Elendilmir too, but not wishing to imperil it again, wore it only on High Days in the North Kingdom. In FA 16, he is said to have given the Star of the Dunedain (the younger of the two Elendilmir) to Samwise Gamgee.
The thing I can't quite figure out is how the Ring of Barahir left the line of the Kings in Númenor and wound up in the hands of the Faithful. I suppose it was during the time when Sauron was convincing the king that Elves were bad, and therefore he got rid of it, but I'm surprised Sauron didn't finagle to get hold of it himself. Perhaps since it was already forged he couldn't muck with it.

I'm sure PJ would love this thread because one thing he decided about LOTR is that it was really the story of the Ring, in a way, especially in the Prologue, where it's the star character. It certainly was the subject of all the stories at the Council of Elrond.

So telling the Silmarillion through the agency of a ring would be a nice parallel.

Thanks especially for the Elendilmir and Elessar summary. I'm getting familiar with Silmarillion (you'd think so after ten years!) but I don't remeber it as well as LOTR and Hobbit, and I've only just started diving into HOME and such.

I guess they're probably not going to mention the scepter in the movie.
I notice that Aragorn's still wearing the Ring of Barahir in the movie; in the books, he gave it to Arwen as a sort of engagement ring. (The most valuable thing he had, I'm sure).

I thought in the books that Arwen had left the Elessar with Galadriel to give to Aragorn. If I'm remembering that right, then Arwen had some foreknowledge, when her brothers brought her out of Lórien to the safety of Rivendell shortly before Frodo arrived, that Aragorn would be going that way soon!

Things, made things, play an integral part of so much of these stories -- you can see vestiges of the Sampo everywhere. The Ruling Rings, the One, the Scepter, the Silmarils, the Palantir, the Elessar, the Elendilmir, the Nauglamir, a coupla winged crowns-- and one White Tree.

A great many of those objects actually helped caused the worst wars and sorrows of Middle Earth. Others were symbols of hope and renewal. I find that all very fascinating, because there are some epic cycles whree things are NOT a major component. All I can think of in Homer is the armor of Achilles, which isn't as significant as any of these things, and the bow of Odysseus.
Here something good to think about. What about the origins of Orcrist and Glamdring? They are both from Gondolin and lasted through the 1st and 2nd Age and made their way into the Hobbit. What happened in between?
I believe that after the fall of Gondolin they both fell into enemy hands. They then disappear out of history until turning up in a troll cave during the Hobbit.
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The thing I can't quite figure out is how the Ring of Barahir left the line of the Kings in Númenor and wound up in the hands of the Faithful. I suppose it was during the time when Sauron was convincing the king that Elves were bad, and therefore he got rid of it, but I'm surprised Sauron didn't finagle to get hold of it himself.
I think it actually happened much sooner than this, Sepdet. Numenor's fourth king, Tar-Elendil, had a daughter as his eldest child, Silmarien. Although her younger brother, Tar-Meneldur became king, her son, Valandil, was the first Lord of Andunie. It was from this line that the Faithful originated.

In my opinion, the Ring of Barahir was most probably given to Silmarien by her father and became a heirloom of this house along with the Sceptre of Annuminas and the Elendilmir.

As far as I know, the ring does not have any magical properties, it's value being in its heritage alone. That is most probably why Sauron did not try to get of of it.
Uruk-slayer-- see my journal for the answer to that, since it's a little off-topic. Smile Smilie

If memory serves, I think Celebrimbor was in Nargothrond in the First Age after thumbing his nose at his family's little obsession with Silmarils? Or was he in Gondolin? I'm wondering, since he seems to be the main ringmaker, whether the Ring of Barahir was also his handiwork.

Now I'm pondering how many items from the First Age were still around on Middle-Earth in Aragorn's day. All the other things I can think of, including the Palantíri, are Second Age. Also, was anything pre-First-Age left, besides the Silmaril in the sky?

Which is a little off-subject, but I am always confused by a line somewhere in the Akaballeth or afterwards stating that seven stones were aboard the ships of the Faithful when Númenor fell, but that they were lost long ago. Are they or are they not the Palantíri that Saruman and Sauron and Denethor were still using in the Third Age?
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I think Celebrimbor was in Nargothrond in the First Age after thumbing his nose at his family's little obsession with Silmarils? Or was he in Gondolin?
Tolkien toyed with both possibilities without leaving a definite answer.
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Now I'm pondering how many items from the First Age were still around on Middle-Earth in Aragorn's day.
Aragorn's sword Narsil was forged by Telchar the Dwarf in the First Age. Glamdring and Orcrist were First Age swords too, having been forged in Gondolin (Glamdring was actually Turgon's sword originally).
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Are they or are they not the Palantíri that Saruman and Sauron and Denethor were still using in the Third Age?
I've always believed they were the same.
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but I am always confused by a line somewhere in the Akaballeth or afterwards stating that seven stones were aboard the ships of the Faithful when Númenor fell, but that they were lost long ago. Are they or are they not the Palantíri that Saruman and Sauron and Denethor were still using in the Third Age?


First of all (not to be lame) but it's the Akallabeth, and yes they most certainly are! I’m pretty sure there were 8 seeing stones ( palantiri) total. The Masterstone never left Aman, and is located in the Tower of Avallone upon Eressea. The other seven were given to the Numenorians as gifts from the Eldar. At the time of the Downfall of Numenor, Elendil had the faithful load the seven stones on one of the nine ships that the faithful used to escape the destruction of Numenor. It was obviously in this way that the seven palantiri possessed by the Numenorians survived, and were brought to Middle Earth.

It was after they were brought to Middle Earth that they were lost. When the faithful made it to Middle Earth, the seven stones were divided. Elendil took three, and his sons (Isildur, and Anarion) each took two a piece (BTW this is straight from the Silmarillion pages 349, 350). The three that Elendil took were placed at Emyn Beraid, Amon Sul (aka Weathertop), and Annuminas. The four taken by his sons were placed at Minas Ithil (later Minas Morgul), Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith), at Orthanc (which made it pretty convenient for Saurman to find his), and in Osgiliath.

How they all became lost from that point, I’m not all sure about. I’m far from an expert on this, and I must confess that I have just started reading UT for the first time, so I’ll probably learn a great deal more in the chapter about the palantiri in the days ahead. Whatever I don’t cover here, I’m sure Val will fill in the gaps, as he is certain to know more about this than I do. However, I do know this for sure, the palantir that resided in Osgiliath was lost in T.A.1437 (in the appendices of ROTK, page 405) when Osgiliath was burned. The palantiri that were at Annuminas, and Amon Sul were lost in T.A. 1975. I believe that the Witch-king of Angmar captured one when he invaded Amon Sul, and it was in this way that Sauron came to possess one of the two he had during the time of the War of the Ring. The other one Sauron possessed he obtained in T.A. 2002 when the Nazgul sacked Minas Ithil, and turned it into Minas Morgul. I believe these two were considered to be “lost” because at the time, it was unknown to the White Council that Sauron was in possession of them. I hope that some of this helps a little.
Elf Smilie


[Edited on 21/5/2003 by Elfstone]
For information about an additional surviving palantir, see my posting of today's date under dreams/ prophecy in LOTR under the Book LotR.
Thanks for that post Grondy, great info! It makes alot of sense too, because I seem to recall reading in The Silmarillion that when Elendil got the longing for the sea, or for the West in his heart, he would go to Eymn Beraid, and gaze into that stone so he could see Eressea.

Also, I was looking over my post in this thread concerning the Palantiri to double check on some things (because I’m still learning too), and I just wanted to state for the record that when I listed the correct spelling for the Akallabeth, I was in no way trying to offend anyone specifically, or be snooty. That was just my Tolkien obsessive-compulsive disorder taking over (I can’t help it). If you look at the post, you will see that I stated in parenthesis “not to be lame”. This phrase is Californian slang that basically translates to the equivalent of I don’t mean to be rude. Since I was responding to questions that sepdet had asked, and also since I recalled seeing somewhere that sepdet lives in Los Angeles (I may be wrong), which is only about an hour away from me, I automatically assumed that she would be familiar with this phrase, and know that I was not intending to be snooty by correcting the spelling. Obviously I knew it was just a typo on her part (which happens to all of us), but I just wanted to clarify that for future viewers of this thread that may have gotten the wrong impression.
Angel Smilie


[Edited on 8/5/2003 by Elfstone]
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I notice that Aragorn's still wearing the Ring of Barahir in the movie; in the books, he gave it to Arwen as a sort of engagement ring. (The most valuable thing he had, I'm sure).

I thought in the books that Arwen had left the Elessar with Galadriel to give to Aragorn. If I'm remembering that right, then Arwen had some foreknowledge, when her brothers brought her out of Lórien to the safety of Rivendell shortly before Frodo arrived, that Aragorn would be going that way soon!


I just want to back up sepdet on a couple of things she mentioned. Since I have recently come across this myself while doing some other research, I wanted to add that Aragorn did indeed give the Ring of Barahir to Arwen. This happened in T.A. 2980, and can be found documented on page 409 (Appendix B) of ROTK. I can find no information anywhere to suggest that Arwen gave the ring back to him, so I’m not so sure that we should be seeing it on Aragorn’s hand in the films, even though I will admit that it was a very cool touch, and I’m glad that at least in some way PJ choose to acknowledge the history of the ring. Just a small side note, I recently received the “Helm’s Deep” Toy Biz action figure version of Aragorn as a gift, and he has the Ring of Barahir on his finger. Yes I’m a geek, but I thought it was pretty cool!

Also, since I have re-read the Farewell to Lorien chapter twice in the last 10 days, I wanted to add that sepdet’s statement about Arwen leaving the Elessar stone with Galadriel for Aragorn is correct. Here is a short quote by Galadriel from that chapter (pg. 421, FOTR);
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for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.

Elf Smilie

Another reason for PJ to have the Ring of Barahir on Aragorn's finger was for the marketing of the copy of this ring and the enriching of someone's coffers. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

See it at: http://www.noblecollection.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=NN9687&capostThreadID=17
Since I have recently finished reading the chapter on The Palantiri, in Unfinished Tales, I wanted to add some information to go along with my original post in this thread concerning the palantiri. I had stated then that I didn’t know at that time, how all of the palantiri became lost. I now believe that I can offer a pretty accurate assessment of what eventually happened to each palantir.

As stated in my original post in regards to this matter, there were a total of eight palantiri. The Master-Stone never left Aman, and is located in the Tower of Avallone upon Eressea. The other seven were given to the Numenorians as gifts from the Eldar. The seven that were brought to M.E. by Elendil after the downfall of Numenor were divided. Elendil took three, and his sons (Isildur, and Anarion) each took two a piece (this is straight from The Silmarillion, pages 349, 350). The three that Elendil took were placed at Emyn Beraid, Amon Sul (aka Weathertop), and Annuminas. The four taken by his sons were placed at Minas Ithil (later Minas Morgul), Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith), at Orthanc, and in Osgiliath. Tolkien, I believe refers to three of the Seven Stones being “major”, and the other four as being “minor” Stones. It is in this way that I will attempt to address what happened to each Stone.

The 3 “major” Stones that were brought to M.E. are listed as being the Osgiliath-Stone, the Stone at Amon Sul, and the Stone that was located at Eymn Beraid. Tolkien lists the Osgiliath-Stone as being the “Master Stone” of the seven that were brought to M.E. Tolkien lists this Stone as being lost in T.A. 1437 in the Anduin during the civil war of the Kin-strife. The Stone of Amon Sul was lost in T.A. 1975 in the shipwreck of Arvedui (along with the Stone of Annuminas). The Stone that was located at Eymn Beraid (or Elendil-Stone), was unlike the other Stones, and was not in accord with them. This Stone looked only to the sea. As far as I can tell, this Stone was kept pretty secret, was never lost, and it, and it’s tower were maintained, and guarded by Cirdan and the Elves of Lindon. However, it is said that Cirdan put this Stone aboard Elrond’s ship when he left for the Undying Lands (for more info, see Grondy’s post in dreams/prophecy in LOTR under the Book LotR).

Tolkien lists the four “minor" Stones as being the Stone of Orthanc, the Anor-Stone, the Ithil-Stone, and the Stone of Annuminas. The Ithil-Stone was captured in T.A. 2002 by Sauron’s forces in the fall of Minas Ithil. This is the Stone that Sauron possessed during the time of The War of the Ring. This Stone was never found again, and it's believed that this Stone perished in the ruin of Barad-dur. The Stone of Annuminas, as I already mentioned, was lost in T.A. 1437 with the Stone from Amon Sul (after the destruction of Amon Sul by Angmar in T. A. 1409, both Stones were then placed at Fornost, where the King of Arthedain lived, it was in this way that they were together when they were lost in the shipwreck of Arvedui).

The Stone of Orthanc, and the Anor-Stone were never lost (for more precise info, please see the chapter on The Palantiri in UT). The Anor-Stone resided in Minas Tirith (the one used by Denethor). Obviously, the Orthanc-Stone resided at the tower of Orthanc (it was sort of forgotten, but not by Saurman). This is the Stone that both Saurman, and Aragorn gazed into. Since Aragorn was their rightful heir, both of these Stones were in his possession once he became king (although, as we know, Aragorn possessed the Orthanc-Stone before he was actually crowned the new King of Gondor). I know the Anor-Stone survived the burning of Denethor, because on page 131 of ROTK it says,
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And it was said that ever after, if any man looked in that Stone, unless he had a great strength of will to turn it to other purpose, he saw only two aged hands withering in flame.

Elf Smilie
Very good Elfstone. Happy Elf Smilie
Nice post, Elfstone. Thanks for taking the time to research these posts for us.
I found some information which i thought i'd throw in the mixer; perhaps giving a clue to the age and/or the origin Barahir's Ring from www.lotrlibrary.com:

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The Ring of Barahir was in the Third Age the most ancient heirloom belonging to Men. From generation to generation it had passed until Aragorn received it, and from him it probably passed to his son Eldarion.
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I found some information which i thought i'd throw in the mixer; perhaps giving a clue to the age and/or the origin Barahir's Ring from www.lotrlibrary.com:

Thank you, but we already know the origin. Read the very first post of this thread, where Valedhelgwath explains it.
He says it was made by the Noldor but he isn't specific. Moreover, in the thread 'Felagund's Ring' numerous names were suggested as possible creators of the ring. It was clear that the date and time in which it was made had a part to play in discerning precisely who created it. So, all i was saying was that that snippet of information might help narrow down the search and if nothing else cement what had already been said. Its important to confirm the findings of research done by others as it adds credibility to their claim. So i hold in high honour my previous statement, and suggest you edit yours! Miruvor
Well, he says more than your 'snippet of information' now, does he. It doesn't even mention anything concerning the First Age.

But still, kudos to beautifully kicking in an open door.