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Oh this book is so sad (so far) does it have any happy endings. Got The Blues Smilie

Oh woe - Turin and Niniel Very Sad Smilie

Oh woe woe - Aldarion and Erendis Very Sad Smilie Very Sad Smilie

Oh woe woe woe - Ancalime and Hallacar Very Sad Smilie Very Sad Smilie Very Sad Smilie

Get yourself to gether M !!!!!

Also - (sorry it's a twoby again) I read the Sil first and picked up that Galadriel was involved in the Rebellion, now UT says that this was wrong - which is correct or am I mis-reading - again Elf Confused Smilie
Define rebellion... she was not involved in the kinslayings as far as I know, but I am not certain if she kept herself from fighting.
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Also - (sorry it's a twoby again) I read the Sil first and picked up that Galadriel was involved in the Rebellion, now UT says that this was wrong - which is correct or am I

The Silmarillion doesn't follow JRRT's final version of Galadriel and Celeborn, where the two of them met in Alqualonde and already left for Middle-Earth before the darkening of Valinor and the rebellion of the Noldor. This would then be the reason why Galadriel was forced to stay in Middle-Earth even after the War of Wrath. Hence she couldn't be involved in the Rebellion (In the Sil Galadriel and Celeborn meet in Doriath).

Personally i don't follow the Sil's version as it doesn't make clear why Galadriel was still forced to stay in ME after the War of Wrath - the ban should be lifted for her as well if she set off to Beleriand with Fingolfin's ppl.

In the Sil it's mentioned she was one of the leaders herself, who stood tall after Fëanor's speech, because she longed to see and rule other lands. So in the Sil she was involved in the Rebellion allright.

In JRRT's final version she wasn't involved in the rebellion of the Noldor, but she also rebelled, be it personally and hence also punished by the Valar : she-elves must not have a cow.

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Oh this book is so sad (so far) does it have any happy endings.

Yes, very sad. I really had to weep when Morgoth got defeated... [:'-(

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Define rebellion... she was not involved in the kinslayings as far as I know, but I am not certain if she kept herself from fighting.

Obviously, she wasn't involved in the kinslaying : as she was of the House of Finarfin, the Teleri were her mother's ppl.
How do you know soo much Virumor, you must read a lot - thanks for the help. It's hard when the two books (the Sil and UT) vary. I'm still reading UT for the first time.

Thank you, you Genius Smilie
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It's hard when the two books (the Sil and UT) vary. I'm still reading UT for the first time.


UT is for those dedicated fans who wish to delve deeper into Tolkien's world. Tolkien spent a lifetime developing his world, and over time made alterations to fundamental parts of it. UT, while going into more depth, shows us various changes and ideas Tolkien had. It does leave the reader with some confusion, however, as to what really happened... Is the Sil the final solution or not?

Basically JRR never finished his great masterpiece, and it was left to his son to pull together from all of his notes and scripts. This in itself must have been a mammoth task, choosing which versions of stories to use etc. In places he got things wrong, and in other areas there are bits he missed out. If after UT you move on to HOME, you will find the confusion becomes even worse.

Stick with it though. There are some great stories. The Hurin story, for example, brings so much more depth to Turin than the Silmarillion managed.
Thank you Val, so I'm not a complete Dunce Smilie

That has cheered me up as I feel like a completer novice most of the time Very Mad Smilie so at least I'm picking up that there are differences.

The stories are more in depth in UT, still wading throught it. Read Smilie

Happy Elf Smilie Wiggle Smilie
Sure these tales delve a LOT deeper. UT actually isn't really confusing. Try HOME and you'll find out why. Very Big Grin Smilie
But they're definately worth reading. Indeed I read Lays of Beleriand many times over even though it was sooo confusing... It gives a lot more detail and makes everything more seem more legendary. I LOVED how Turin's story was told in that, although it wasn't exactly finished... wish Tolkien could've gone on with the many poems he started on.
But the whole houses of the Noldor mess-up really confuses me. Very Mad Smilie ...
I don't know about u all but I just loved reading UT especially the second time when I payed attention to comentarries on the bottom of the pages , but I was certanly trilled when I was reading it together with SILM. that's just grrrreeeeeaaaat reding.....


I'm even thinking about putting it all together into somekind of Silmarillion "expanded version"
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Maydmarion wrote: Also - (sorry it's a twoby again) I read the Sil first and picked up that Galadriel was involved in the Rebellion, now UT says that this was wrong - which is correct or am I mis-reading - again.

Virumor responded: The Silmarillion doesn't follow JRRT's final version of Galadriel and Celeborn, where the two of them met in Alqualonde and already left for Middle-Earth before the darkening of Valinor and the rebellion of the Noldor. This would then be the reason why Galadriel was forced to stay in Middle-Earth even after the War of Wrath. Hence she couldn't be involved in the Rebellion (In the Sil Galadriel and Celeborn meet in Doriath).

Personally i don't follow the Sil's version as it doesn't make clear why Galadriel was still forced to stay in ME after the War of Wrath - the ban should be lifted for her as well if she set off to Beleriand with Fingolfin's ppl.


Tolkien himself published that Galadriel was a leader in the Rebellion (in The Road Goes Ever On) and that's the official story to my mind. I think late in life JRRT did not always remember what he had put into print. RGEO was published in October 1967 (US) for example, in which Galadriel was said to be banned after the overthrow of Morgoth.

Roughly three and a half years later, in letter 320, Galadriel (still a leader of the rebel Noldor) is said to have refused forgiveness or permission to return at the end of the First Age. Revision? or JRRT forgetting the detail that she had been banned?

Going back to 1967 again, Tolkien is consistent with RGEO in another draft letter: 'The Exiles were allowed to return -- save for a few chief actors in the rebellion, of whom at the time of The Lord of the Rings only Galadriel remained.' JRRT 1967, Letters

So again, for me the official story includes Galadriel as a leader of the Exiles (and Celeborn as one of the Sindar), which nicely fits in with her lament in the books too. The variants in Unfinished Tales are interesting and not to be ignored, but yet in my opinion they do not have textual parity with something that 'passed the test' for JRRT's Readership.