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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Fellowship of the Ring > the balrogs wings   << [1] [2] >>
We is havin' a slappin' competition! Care to join in? Wink Smilie[Edited on 25/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Even in this movie the balrog had wings and in the books they are descriped with wings, although i don't no were Smile Smilie
oh grondy... Sad Smilie u deleted all the best bits!

so the balrog has or has not got wings?
i was under the impression that it did. some vague description in the book.
not sure.
Just checked on the movie Balrog. It does not have wings, unless they were invisible.

As for the book balrog ... I guess we will never really know that one unless someone finds a reliable medium. I am inclined to think that it did not though.
Ah well, so much for the Samuel L. Jackson tributes! Big Smile Smilie No-one will ever definitively prove the whole Balrog wings thing. Wonder what CT thinks of it?
Dear Grondmaster that pages doesn't prove anything.

I still go for the winged version though my statement about the appaerence of the wings has changed to the wings are made of shadow. Afterall we are dealing with a maya whom didn't need to take physical form so i think the wings could be made of Shadow (it's a fantasy book after all)
wringwraiths, sauron etc blah blah blah

and for not being able to fly.. well chickens can't strousses can't pinguins can't do i need to go on? So his wings were used for terror to impose fear upon it's beholders

as for it's size remember Gandalf, whom appeared to grow in size (speaking to bilbo about the ring during is farewell thingie

this is a really nice discussion we could go on (as the post off plastic suggested if believe there are wings there are if not there aren't this reminds me some how of the discworld)

as for Gadalf came flying down the stairs .. well Isomehow always imagined he was flying.... just hovering above the ground.. coz if he could actually fly he didn't need a bird to escape from Orthanc

*Disclaimer* Okay me English isn't very good so I'm not sure I understood everything said in that article. I'm even very sure I didn't Big Smile Smilie
Boring: You got the general drift of what it said, and as Plastic Squirrel has been saying for ages, it can't be definitively settled one way or the other. And those who wish to argue will choose one side or the other and become fanatical in their defense of that choice. Big Smile Smilie
Help - I do not know what you guys are talking about. Balrog - which creatures are these. The one at the great hall where these creatures scale down the pillars??

Uugh - its been ages I've caught the movie (actually only two weeks).
Coccyx ( I think, but cannot be arsed to look it up) Smile Smilie And yeah, the big flaming B*stard who kills Gandalf (ish)
The Balrog had no wings, but he wore fluffy bedrrom slippers. Proof is here (well, the debate anyway Smile Smilie ):

http://www.flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/slippers.htm
ROFL

They were carpet slippers, similar to the ones sometimes worn by the ferocious Cuddly Badgers awarded by the Plastic Squirrel; same as the ones worn at home by Badger in 'The Wind in the Willows'. I know this for a fact, because no self-respecting Balrog would ever be caught dead wearing fluffy bedroom slippers*.



*Unless of course they resembled long eared, pink bunny wabbits to which Balrogs are partial--to wear, not to eat, as they don't taste anything like chicken, as Gandalf could attest, had they not been carpet slippers. :P
[Edited on 27/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Doesn't it say in the book that "a shadow reached out LIKE two vast wings, from wall to wall" sth like that. If it says LIKE, it can just be an image you get when you see this Balrog approaching you. You can think: hey this thing's got wings, when it hasn't... Big Smile Smilie
Doesn't the balrog in the movie reflect the depiction by Ted Nasmith of Tolkien scenes. As a matter of fact, I think the art director took a great deal from Ted Nasmith's art. Is the art gallery back up on this site? If so, then check it out yourselves.
I was almost certain that Ted Nasmith did his own balrog, but in the meantime, here's another artist's rendering:

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pictures/fantasy/Tolkien/balrog.jpg

*drags this topic out

The Balrog had wings!

Quote:
It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itselfup to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen....


About two paragraphs after Toms quote.
And you can order Balrog wings from Barliman in the chat room which is complete proof...

Big Smile Smilie
I thought Alan Lee and John Howe were the artists that were working on the visual production of the movie?
uh, well my rememberences from the original art gallery in this site were several pictures from Nasmith that seemed immortalized in the film. And it may be that there can be only so many acurate artistic renderings of what the postAuthorID describes.

I was wondering if they used any Tolkien artists in the art direction of the film. I'm glad they did.
The link-picture looks just like a bull with wings. And where does it take place, definetely not in the mines of Moria. :P

42: I noticed that too now, and I've posted a comment in "the belrog". Wink Smilie
Retraction of Earlier Comment:

I just saw a better, clearer version of the FOTR. The Balrod definately had something resembling bat-like wings, although I couldn't make out any webbing just bone-structure.

*runs and hides
If I remember rightly Alyssa (which I probably don't) they were terribly smoky and shadowy and thus, vague. Allowing us to continue these arguments as long as we like.
*withstupid*
Luckily for us (and for him, I guess) PJ wasn't very clear in this. If he had been, he would have disappointed and upset a great many people by either leaving them out or putting them in. It's a complicated world... :o
I don't see what's so wrong about PJ being vague about the wings of the balrog. They are mystic creatures so let there be something mysterious about them.
I think the Balrog's wings were made of smoke which came from his fiery heart through vertical vents in his sides. That way they could intimidate by filling an entire room, wall-to-wall, yet couldn't support his weight in flight. Cool Smilie
Could be true. In any case I don't think they were strong enough to carry his weight, otherwise he would have used them, and if they were, he could not possibly have lived in Moria.
According to this link the Balrog has wings. This is the official company making all the miniatures for the New Line. I have been buying all my minatures from them since the begining. They had to get the approval of the model from PJ and New Line before they could produce the model. So at least in the movie the Balrog had wings. LOL

________________________________________________________
http://www.gamesworkshop.com/lotr/painting/balrog.htm
________________________________________________________

Take a look and see what you think.

See, the Balrog's wings are too made of smoke. Tongue Smilie

And the debate goes on, and on, and on, ..... Ha Ha Ha Smilie
Yay! Very Big Grin Smilie

The photos took too long to download, so I didn't see most of the pictures on that link, but hey, do we have to believe this? Very Big Grin Smilie
the balrog has wings.. why you ask... because it says so in the book.... it shows them in the movie... and most importantly, because I GIMLI the only one of you to have actually seen a balrog in person, says so!

[Edited on 5/7/2002 by gimli_axe_wielder]
Oh, and I suppose you weren't lying either, when you said, "I chopped down the cherry tree with my little hatchet." Oh, that was George Washington, 'The Father of our Country' whose birthday we celebrate today, the countries, not George's.

Happy Birthday Smilie America.

[Edited on 4/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
well, we could celebrate his aswell, if you want to... :P
The Balrog has wings? I think you must be confused Gimli what with all that time spent in mines and whatnot, breathing in too many toxic fumes i fancy. Balrogs dont have wings!!!!!!!!! Birds, insects,airplanes, angels (fallen or otherwise), pegasi etc and sanitary towels have wings. Balrogs don't. Or at least thats what I think now. When I first read it I thought they had wings. hmmmm. Puppy Smilie couldnt find Balrog icon so this is close enough, and it even has inocuos wing things on the sides for the "wings" faction
I wonder if Tolkien did this on purpose to create a conversation piece. The first mention of the Balrog’s "wings"
Quote:
…..His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out LIKE two vast wings.

Then 2 paragraphs down
Quote:
…..It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall;…
I think that Tolkien is referring to the shadow spreading from wall to wall. No actual wings. But Grondmaster is right, this conversation will go on forever and ever and ever and ever……
Exploding Head Smilie
btw: How do you set the quotes of in little boxes like y'all been doin'.

(The quotes marks have been Grondied) Moderator Smilie

[Edited on 6/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
Rednell: Look just above the composition area and find the yellow comic strip conversation baloon (it is between the envelope and the world), click on it and add your text between the middle two brackets. Smile Smilie

Once you see the format "quote" between brackets for on; and "/quote" between brackets for off, you may find it easier to type them in the middle of your text, rather than using the button. Main thing to remember is the "/ " is the off command. Use this same format for Bold, Italics, and Underline. I have yet to fathom the # button's usage.

[Edited on 6/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
Yes, Gadalf was a Maia, wasn't he? Did have a pair of wings tucked under those robes of his? Not that I was aware of, but I suppose it is possible, if you abscribe to the "If Tolkien didn't say it was impossible, then it must be possible" theory.

Leaf shaped ears? Depends on the leaf....what if you consider Maple leaves? I am still not buying it.

I think it is possible that dwarf women look like men without beards. Unless one was in the know about their existance, one would probably assume that they were just young berdless, male dwarves.

I still cant believe that a creature that has wings could fall into a chasm. Even if they were only partially operational, they would at least slow his decent (parachute like) and save it a great deal of injury. It could also have finished off Gandalf by dropping him on the way, as it glided to a more gentle landing itself. Yet Gandalf survived at least as well as it did, if not in better condition. Maybe he landed on top of it and was cushioned? But it would still need to be falling at least as fast as he was. I am no expert in such matters, does this make sense Grondy?
Wings I tell ya WINGS!!!
I'm with Gimli, I totally think it had wings. I have nothing to support my belief other than what has already been said, but I believe. Besides, doesn't it look cool with wings? Cool Smilie

Anyway, I'm just seeing if my theory works for this thread. What theory is that you ask? Well apparenltly, whenever I start participating in a thread it DIES! Quickly. You may call me...Threadslayer! Very Evil Smilie

Paranoid Smilie

[Edited on 7/28/02 by ProgHead777]
ProgHead: You may be The Threadslayer, but I'm usually the one that kills off the Storyboard type threads. Maybe it is because I take a neat concept and then instead of letting it run for a while, I think up a gag and nobody feels the need to continue on. Guess we just need to answer a question with a question. Don't you think?

Regarding Balrog wings: They are like pointed ears on elves; maybe they exists, maybe they don't. The postAuthorID wasn't specific; thus, you can argue either way and be right or wrong, depending on the nature of your audience. Big Smile Smilie
well my opinion is (if that matters) balrogs mayhaps lesser Valar, and aren't Valars kinda like angels? angels=wings

OOOPPPSSS what have i done...did i just do a threadslaying here.....oh nooooo

baaahh.proghead...threadslayer?! thats nothing compared to ALONE
okay okay....FALL is coming but still Sad Smilie

[Edited on 29/7/2002 by tuesday]
Not quite slayed yet, Balrogs are Maia like Sauron and Gandalf yeah, but neither of them have got wings, and neither have the valar either, so still no wings kids. Big Smile Smilie
Balrogs do not have wings, dwarf women do not have beards and elves do not have pointy ears! Where do movie directors get these notions? Shaking Head Smilie
there r those who say that elements of tolkiens lotr are stuff lifted from trad. lit. , mythology, etc. stuff...not only for some characters but for storyline! AGREED?
IF SO...sos f ERU is god, his assistants VALAR are angels, MAIAR valar assistants for sure are lesser angels too. SO....has wings!!!!!! and the Valars tho of pure spirit took the physical form resembling elves or men called by the eldar, fanar then same works for maiar for sure.........then for the only balrog left on ME as he wielded power of shadow and flame thats y shadows about it lifting up like 2 vast wings quote by someone and the fiery persona definitions i got from Guide to Middle Earth Tongue Smilie

and allyssa elves like fairies always have pointed ears, it wat sets them apart from mundane men Smoke Smilie and some unlucky maiden dwarves shave or they crush athelas and pipeweed, then apply
The games workshop Balrog has wings too

Elves do not have pointy ears! they are supposed to be taller slimmer adn fairer then men thats what sets them apart

and dwarf women do have beards! thats why they aren't seen very often caus they look like dwarfmen
Gandalf and Sauron aren't giants engulfed in flame either,so possible wings! Wink Smilie

I don't know anything about Dwarf women and whether or not they have beards and shave. I think it's likely as I've seen human women in desparate need of a shave. Why not Dwarf women?

I thought I read another post, maybe on this thread, a quote by Tolkien describing Elf ears as 'leaf shaped' which suggests points to me. Smile Smilie
Quote:
I still cant believe that a creature that has wings could fall into a chasm. Even if they were only partially operational, they would at least slow his decent (parachute like) and save it a great deal of injury.


Why not? An ostrich or an emu has wings, but is unable to fly. What if years and years ago balrogs had wings and could fly, but this one had been inside the mountain for such a long time. He didn't need to use his wings there, so during all these years the muscles of the wings disappeared, the wings became weaker or maybe even started to get smaller, disintegrate and therefore became useless, except maybe to make his body look bigger and more scary. So when he fell down the chasm, his wings couldn't save him anymore. Tongue Smilie
I'm sorry Allyssa, but I like my Elves to have pointy ears and I also wholly accept Gnampie's explanation of why the Balrog didn't use its wings, if it actually had wings, to fly out of, or down into the chasm.

Whether or not the Balrog had wings is immaterial to me. Unless I were accompanied by Glorfindel, I would not care to be found anywhere in one's vicinity; and even then, I would hope I could out-run that Elven Lord. Super Wow Smilie Super Scared Smilie
So explain to me how come the Balrog who got chucked in the well in Gondolin didn't just fly out then?
YEAH! It was still alive when it fell, because it grabbed Glorfindel's hair as it went, taking him with it. Glorfindel's Balrog was in peak condition. Should have been nothing wrong with its wings - so why did it fall?

If the Moria Balrog had wings, but the muscles had atrophied, wouldn't the wings be dragging on the floor? not spreading from wall to wall? If it could spread its wings, it could surely use them to slow its decent. Since it in fact probably hit the bottom before Gandalf (cushioning the wizard), it seems to have fallen rather quickly, given its size and weight relative to Gandalf's (that was what I was asking Grondy, does the theory that large heavy objects fall faster than smaller, lighter ones hold true? I know nothing of science and engineering).

The Balrog fell like a stone. No wings, else it would have been slower.
Quote:
YEAH! It was still alive when it fell, because it grabbed Glorfindel's hair as it went, taking him with it. Glorfindel's Balrog was in peak condition. Should have been nothing wrong with its wings - so why did it fall?

Sorry, still haven't read the Syl yet, so I have no aswer for this one (can't seem to get by the first part.......so boring) Boring Smilie

Quote:
If the Moria Balrog had wings, but the muscles had atrophied, wouldn't the wings be dragging on the floor? not spreading from wall to wall?

Not necessarily. There is a difference between having enough muscles to spread your wings and have enough muscles to actually lift such a heavy weight from the floor.

Quote:
If it could spread its wings, it could surely use them to slow its decent. Since it in fact probably hit the bottom before Gandalf (cushioning the wizard), it seems to have fallen rather quickly, given its size and weight relative to Gandalf's (that was what I was asking Grondy, does the theory that large heavy objects fall faster than smaller, lighter ones hold true? I know nothing of science and engineering).

The Balrog fell like a stone. No wings, else it would have been slower.

If the law of gravity also applies to ME, yes a heavy object would fall faster than a light object.
About the wings slowing the Balrog down, mmm..... it depends on how it is falling I guess. Animated Wink Smilie
Possibility 1: he is falling horizontaly
In the best case he is falling faced down and with his body in a right angle with the length of the chasm, so that there is room enough to spread his wings and the wings can catch air. In that case you can expect the wings to slow down his fall. With his body in the same position, but faced upwards, the wings would also catch air, but it wouldn't be so effective.
If his body is situated parallel with the length of the chasm, there wouldn't be enough room to spread his wings, so they wouldn't slow down his fall.
Possibility 2: he is falling vertically
If he falls with his head down, opening his wings wouldn't matter because they wouldn't catch any air anyway. If he falls with his feet first he might be able to use his wings a bit. But again it is also possible he can't open his wings because the walls are to close to each other.
Ha Ha Ha Smilie
And what if it depends on the season? Maybe during some seasons they have wings and in other seasons they don't. Very Big Grin Smilie

Don't take this all too serious. I just couldn't resist writing this. It's so funny when I try to picture all these possibilities in my mind. Big Smile Smilie

Personally, I don't care if it has wings or not. It looks impressive and mysterious and I'm contented with that. I like the mystic around it.
Quote:
If the law of gravity also applies to ME, yes a heavy object would fall faster than a light object.
Sorry, Gnampie. Your statement is scientifically false. Heavier objects don't fall any faster that light objects except maybe for an infinitesimally slight variation due to air resistance, as in the case of feathers, which turn into lift bodies and soar rather than fall. In a vacuum they would all fall at an exactly equal rate. Read Smilie Smile Smilie

Oh, and I really do believe that Balrogs have wings that are made of shadow, which can be seen even in direct sunlight; but that they are useless for flying, as they are only meant for intimidation, at which they succeed in doing quite well, thank you. Super Scared Smilie

Why are we still having this argument/discussion? Didn't Plastic Squirrel's definitive posting of 18 JAN 2002 under 'The Movies' Fellowship of the Ring > the belrog inform us that "resistance is useless," we can argue until the cows come home, and that neither side can win? Or are we just having fun with the topic again? Very Big Grin Smilie
Come to think of it, how do we know anything of what the Balrog looked like. The description in the book is rather sparse. We know it was fiery, had something that at least suggested wings, a whip, a sword, and...um...feet. It could have been wearing a pink tu tu for all we know. Big Laugh Smilie

Actually, I believe it's described a 'fiery shadow'. Maybe the Balrog was made entirely of shadow, including its WINGS.
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