Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Who has seen it and what did you think?

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Fellowship of the Ring > Who has seen it and what did you think?   << [1] [2] [3] [4]
Now that is a great idea, Grondmaster! I want to see the brave guy who comes dressed as Sauron.

I think the whole high culture/ low culture argument is a bit futile, since no matter how well either side argues its position, no one changes their mind (although Jonathan Frantzen vs. Oprah was amusing). I will say, though, that I have found art films and popcorn movies equally enjoyable and valuable (Ran and Jaws make a great double bill, if you have a whole lot of free time and ice cream). I don't think every film has to evolve the medium- how many permutations can you have? Cliches get to be cliches because they're effective. Lazy storytelling, perhaps, but I can't say a movie cliche is without merit simply because "it's been done." I've never found a movie genre that didn't have at least one enjoyable film (well, not really a porn fan, so maybe one genre Smile Smilie ) "Just a popcorn movie" seems harsh. Even if this film isn't art on the level of Kurosawa or Bergman (whom I find dull. oh well.), it is still art. Skillful manipulation of cliche and archetype is an art in itself. Whether it's a valid art... is a pub topic. Wink Smilie

On this topic... Ungoliant- I didn't miss Glorfindel, and I kinda liked Arwen as a substitute (until the "she-elf"/ "come and take him" exchange- dear lord!). I have nothing against Glorfindel. He's a fine character. But then I know who he is. I was glad not to see him because it meant I didn't have to answer another round of "Who's he? Why's he important? Are we ever going to see him again?" He's another elf, just shut up and let me watch! As many fans as the books have, I'm not sure there are enough of them to keep New Line solvent without the help of people who don't know a hobbit from an ewock. PJ and company kept as much as they could, I think, but some things had to go. And if Liv with a sword is the price I pay for a nice Balrog and a wonderfully realized Hobbiton, well, it's a short scene.

Feel free to yell at me. Smile Smilie
Seriously, i didn't think that scene with Liv waving her knife in the air screaming was all that bad at all!
it was kinda cool. she's got a nice voice and the scene shows that she's got guts.
ok, so it was totally different to Arwen's character in the book but so what...
like i said, the only real problem i have with the movie is that Legolas doesn't get enough screen time! Sad Smilie Big Smile Smilie
I agree, I liked the new Arwen. I always thought the book's Arwen was terribly dull. At least PJ's interpretation had some personality (even if it's borrowed from Eowyn Smile Smilie ) But I know people who were mortally insulted that she wasn't the same as in the book. Well, no. If Arwen just sat and sewed by Elrond's side and never said a word to the end of the trilogy, the critics would have savaged the movie. That's no longer an ideal image of femininity (I hope. Please let me be right, guys.)
Aw shoot! You're right Jehanne. Smile Smilie
And I totally forgot the most ripped off director ever, Kurosawa! Have you seen City of Fire? then go watch Reservoir dogs after and tell me it's the breakthrough piece of cinema everyone said it was. Big Smile Smilie
Popcorn was designed specifically to annoy those who actually like watching movies as opposed to those who go there trying to get their girlfriends to.....[Edited on 18/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
If Arwen was meant to represent the ideal of feminity in Tolkien's time, then who was the ideal of masculinity? Aragorn?
But he's still the ideal by today's standards, ain't he? I mean, the guy can cook and fight, he's smart, loaded, tall and handsome (i hope, i hope) not to mention chivalrous and faithful (the whol thing with Eowyn). what more could you want? oh and he's got a great job. Big Smile Smilie
Just because I like the movie better doesn't make me a moron any more than your use of four letter words makes you a victim of turrets.

I still think it's a poorly writen book by a very good storyteller. He needed a better editor, or even a ghostwriter in my opinion (as a writer, BTW). If that's "light" reading, :Jane Eyre" must be absolutely ghostly.

And I don't think Arwen was Tolkiens ideal of femeninity, I think Galadriel was. My evidence for this is that Gimli (who didn't like elves, remember) was so charmed by her that he defended her name and "virtue" throughout his life.

I don't know what his "ideal" man was. All the men are so varied, Strider just wasn't lighthearted enough. The elves were always too dour, the dwarves too gruff, making the hobbits the ideal men... LOL

Have to agree with Jehanne and Swampfaye on this one. Galdriel is closer to his ideal of "woman". Which doesnt say alot about him. Galadriel is still basically the Arthurian/Celtic White Lady - mystical, beautiful and virginal. Definitely a prize in the eyes of Tolkien. Not very active though.
But his, ideal of men is not much better. Swamp seems to be right. Hobbits are his refernce - once again noble and completely asexual. Too much chivalry. At least in Arthurian and Nordic legends there was lust and desire. It is a considerable force to be dealt with (look at Ovid) ; Tolkien just threw all that away. Pity. I guess he couldn't deal with it.

Of the subject; For those who'd like to discuss City of Fire vs Reservoir Dog. Lets go to the Golden Perch Tavern and pursue. Tarantino turned a HK Z movie by Ringo Lam (which I thoroughly enjoyed) into a major and important "independant"film. Lets continue elsewhere
Err, Galadriel's not quite a virgin is she? As for elven sexuality, see the Prancing Pony.
Well, no, she isn't a virgin, but she's definitely a virgin-archetype. I mean, imagine Galadriel or any of the other elf women as sexual beings. Maybe Luthien, but the rest are too pure and untouchable.

Sorry Grondmaster. -hangs head and heads off to the pub-
Well, Sam gets hitched with Rosie at the end, but i guess that's not really about 'sex' but more like 'marriage'.
LOTR is strangely devoid of sex, huh. i guess that's why it's so much like a modern-day fairy tale. Very sanitised view of the world, i must say.
i just came back from seeing the movie for the fourth time!!
and i saw the 'dead' orc lifting his head to watch Aragorn walk to Boromir. did not look injured at all.
teehee.. Big Smile Smilie
*stupid I guess he was. But that doesn't make the book any worse. I mean, what kind of film can you watch nowadays without bumping into s*x-scenes? I'm glad FotR is one of them, but then it's fiction, so this doesn't make sense... Hmmm... Smile Smilie No, honestly, I'm glad there is no s*x in LOTR at all. You don't expect it in a book like LOTR. I mean, nowadays a book can't be good unless there's sex in it. Same goes for a film. Pity... Sad Smilie

Quote:
I still think it's a poorly writen book by a very good storyteller. He needed a better editor, or even a ghostwriter in my opinion (as a writer, BTW). If that's "light" reading, :Jane Eyre" must be absolutely ghostly.


Don't tell me you think LOTR is a difficult book to read! It's fantasy, it's a fairy tale! To me it's light reading before going to bed with a nice cup a coco to have sweet dreams! (which means it's a fantastic book!) Big Smile Smilie

On the editor point: I read in the prologue in my copy of LOTR that Tolkien said he's glad he never edited or corrected anything in the book. (sth like that, I'll look it up for ya) If he had done that, there would be little left... Smile Smilie
[quote I mean, what kind of film can you watch nowadays without bumping into s*x-scenes? I'm glad FotR is one of them, but then it's fiction, so this doesn't make sense... Hmmm... Smile Smilie No, honestly, I'm glad there is no s*x in LOTR at all. You don't expect it in a book like LOTR. I mean, nowadays a book can't be good unless there's sex in it. Same goes for a film. Pity... Sad Smilie


WE WANT MORE SEX!!!!!!! In everything. Big Smile Smilie

this was in the news part a while back...

Quote:
**************** confirms that there's some Middle-Earth nookie. "We get a little deeper into the love story between Aragorn and Arwen. We see how much they really mean to each other," he promises.


Dunno what the ************** part is, but it seems you might get what you want, Plastic...which I think is kind of stupid, but that all ties in with my standard "They shouldn't have given Arwen a bigger part" rant...
WOOHOO!!!! Elf-humping time :P
C'mon everyone. Aragorn is King - last of his kind - he's starting a new Kingdom after his battling and traveling for years in the wild. This guy has catching up to do. Purely biological - he needs descendants! Thats what Kings do?!
As for Arwen, shes over 2000 years old (so I'm told) but personally I don't thgink she looks a year over 1800. And she's still a Virgin!
There be a lotta hormones in that woman and no amount of horse riding is gonna cool hjer down.
On a "serious" note, I find it was a pity Tolkien created aworld that is so asexual. Thats all. I don't think when I was 10 reading the book forst that I was actually worried about who was humping who? I was just worried about who was cutting off who's head. I guess I've matured! Heh?
oh well who can blame Tolkien? he was a stodgy stuffed shirt, true to his fellow country men/women. don't think having bunch of orcs having a big sexual orgy would've went down very well with his crowd.
how do you know Arwen's a virgin? i mean, living for thousands of years with all those hunky elves runnin' around... probably had a roll in the hay in her adolesence. and another thing, she's 2000 yrs old and she's marrying a bloke who can't be more than 50? Pedophilia!!! Big Smile Smilie
Not at all, once again I am compelled to agree. I understand why all the changes had to be made, but it doesn't mean I have to like them Big Smile Smilie You have a lot of good points there, 'bout a dollars worth perhaps Wink Smilie
Hi everyone, I'm new here and just wanted to share my old LOTR obsession with similarly ill individuals (to be fair, the obsession was dormant many years until the movie came out).

My credentials: first read the books in high school 25 years ago and re-read many times since, but it's probably been 10 years.

My take on the movie: IT ROCKED!! Around here, everyone's not just a critic, they're a director, so Jackson couldn't get everything right. But the movie got the essence of it, and conveyed the awesome nature of Middle Earth and the quest. Gandalf and the hobbits were terrific, and I think those are the characters that you just can't afford to screw up. Boromir was great too; I look forward to seeing how they do Faramir.

I have a few minor complaints that I haven't noticed anyone else making:

1. Why mess with the "original" Ford of Bruinen scene? Arwen for Glorfindel was a good idea, and it was exciting, but just as exciting in the book. Frodo gets across alone and defies the Black Riders in a scene showing his courage, with one of the best quotes of the book ("....you shall have neither the Ring nor me!"). Come and claim him is a little lame next to that.

2. The other site I've been to called it the WWF--the "Wizard Wrestling Federation". Kind of undignified for such highbrow fellows, don't you think?

3. Did we really need over 5 minutes of precious time devoted to the cave troll? Moria was plenty exciting without it. They could have expanded the Council of Elrond with that time and given us a better introduction to the other characters and why they were there.

But let's be grateful for how good this was; I was afraid it would be buried by Harry Potter hype, but the rest of the world saw a work that respected the books, and that's what counts to me. When we got home my son insisted that I start reading the Two Towers to him because he couldn't wait to find out what happened next. I felt the same way.

Quote:
1. Why mess with the "original" Ford of Bruinen scene? Arwen for Glorfindel was a good idea, and it was exciting, but just as exciting in the book. Frodo gets across alone and defies the Black Riders in a scene showing his courage, with one of the best quotes of the book ("....you shall have neither the Ring nor me!"). Come and claim him is a little lame next to that.

2. The other site I've been to called it the WWF--the "Wizard Wrestling Federation". Kind of undignified for such highbrow fellows, don't you think?

3. Did we really need over 5 minutes of precious time devoted to the cave troll? Moria was plenty exciting without it. They could have expanded the Council of Elrond with that time and given us a better introduction to the other characters and why they were there.


Welcome! I think if you find the thread"What did you miss" you'll see these posted there. I missed Frodo defying the Nazgul as well. It gave him a little more character. And when he whispers for them to leave him alone it also shows how tired he already is of the quest.

I also missed the scene where aragorn has everyone blindfold themselves instead of just Gimli in Lothlorien. I thought it showed a very wise quality in him.
M.LeBehemoth...nobody'll hate you if you can back up whatever claims you make...which you did nicely, so, there you go. My only complaint being that your name is long and I had to keep checking back to see how it was spelled because I couldn't get it into my head Wink Smilie Big Smile Smilie
Hello oldfandave, if you hunt around the forum you'll find lengthy arguments devoted to every single difference between the movie and the book. Unfortunately we seem to have a real problem keeping them all in the same place so they're easy to find. Sorry about that Smile Smilie And as to us all being critics and directors, I see your point, really I do.
Welcome to the best place for intelligent Tolkien argument on the net. Smile Smilie
Big Welcome to MrLeBehemoth, or have we met already?

And Welcome to Offendave too. Dont think we met yet...

Reading all these comments makes me realise that I really must see the movie again. Going tomorrow.

I really hope Arwen and Arargorn control their "raging" hormones for a few more months, although I agree 2500 years is a long time for anyone to wait for sex. Wink Smilie

Tolkien would be horrified to see them cavorting together before the wedding day, I'm sure! and imagine Elrond's reaction if he found out...especially since he is now so angry and frustrated (according to PJ). The final demise of the Heirs of Isildur. They better play it safe... Sad Smilie

Will return with fresh comments on the morrow...
Yeah, have seen the FotR 3 times and reading the posts in here makes me realise how much i keep missing.

I am sure Arwen could escape Elrond for a cute elf, there were all those years in Lothlorien after all!
Come on people, think you will agree that if there had been any sex in FotR the movie, we would all have been offended, saying it's a shame how they've messed with the story, and Tolkien is rolling over in his grave, stuff like that. Big Smile Smilie
Though I must agree you have a point. Smile Smilie
Great movie-all I can say!
  << [1] [2] [3] [4]