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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Fellowship of the Ring > mistakes   << [1] [2]
I fail to see your point. Arwen didn't save Aragorn's life, but Frodo's. I think Arwen knew that Aragorn could take care of himself. What King would he be, if he couldn't. I guess she also changes Aragorn's diapers ?

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Well, we don't really know enough about Arwen from the books to make a decision as to what risk she is willing to take on her own.

Sure we know enough about Arwen "from the books". From what i have read in LOTR, it seems very likely that Arwen would never do what she did in the movies.

Anyway, comparing is useless, as a lot of characters are different in the movies. Movie-Arwen and book-Arwen are different as day and night, so i wonder why i even bothered.

Meh ?

Anyway, speaking of real mistakes : i think it was a mistake that after she splashed away the Nazgûl, that she suddenly started the "No!!! Frodo, don't give in", etc. and the entire silly weeping. I mean, she didn't even know him. Imagine ppl working in the ER doing the same after a patient in dire need of medical assistance is brought in.

Is it the typical "women are emotional, so make them emotional!" trick? If i were Arwen, i'd have rushed off to daddy in no time.
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I fail to see your point. Arwen didn't save Aragorn's life, but Frodo's. I think Arwen knew that Aragorn could take care of himself. What King would he be, if he couldn't. I guess she also changes Aragorn's diapers ?

Of course he could take care of himself, that doesn't mean that Arwen would leave him to it then. She could still long to come and assist in anyway possible. Sounds like you have issues with women helping men. Wink Smilie And who knows if she saved Aragorn's life or not...but she did lead the Nazgul away from him, which I think constitutes as an attempt to save his life.

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Sure we know enough about Arwen "from the books". From what i have read in LOTR, it seems very likely that Arwen would never do what she did in the movies.

But we don't know anything about her!
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Of course he could take care of himself, that doesn't mean that Arwen would leave him to it then. She could still long to come and assist in anyway possible. Sounds like you have issues with women helping men. And who knows if she saved Aragorn's life or not...but she did lead the Nazgul away from him, which I think constitutes as an attempt to save his life.

The thing is, Aragorn had to prove himself worthy of Arwen. Not only to Elrond, but also to himself. It was something he had to do alone. So Arwen helping him like in the flicks is a big no-no. Supporting him from a distance, yes.

But that's the book thing. Tis different in the movies. In the movies, Aragorn is full of self-doubt(the "weakness"-speech). Of course that poor baby can't do it alone. And of course, anyone would have fled movie-Elrond if possible. What a jerk.

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But we don't know anything about her!

Orc Going Huh Smilie
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From what we know from LOTR, Arwen would never do what she did in the movies.
That may or may not be true, but mayhaps she (like Eowyn) suffered the bonds that her elder kinsman placed upon her, keeping her at home and barefoot, while her brother(s) got to go adventuring. So once each of them was able to slip away from dear old dad (nuncle) they played it to the hilt, just as did Arwen's forebearer Luthien. Just a thought, don'cha know?
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So once she was able to slip away from dear old dad (nuncle) she played it to the hilt just as did Arwen's forebearer Luthien. Just a thought, don'cha know?

Bad comparison. Why would Arwen need to slip away ? Lúthien slipped away from dad because of Beren. Arwen didn't need to slip away : when she first met Aragorn, she was already 2710 years old. And when they got betrothed, Elrond didn't send Aragorn on a suicide-mission to get rid of Aragorn, but he accepted it. Also note that Arwen spent most of her time in Lothlorien, in her mother's land, until she met Aragorn (after which she returned to Lothlorien again). Only back in 3009 Elrond sent message to Arwen to return to him so they could spend their last days together. So Lothlorien seems to be Arwen's home, rather than Rivendell. And Elrond playing the dominant, over-possessive dad like in the movies, is a no-no.

Arwen loved her father dearly; she knew that their parting would cause him a lot of grief : that to me is the main reason why she would never leave Rivendell in the last days of the third age. Not because she can't help or doesn't want to help Aragorn : she does help him, but from a distance - remember she made and sent him the Banner.

Also, don't forget what happened to Celebrían in 2510 when she left Rivendell : that to me is a big reason why Elrond would never risk his daughter leaving Rivendell. And because Arwen loved her father dearly, she would never want to hurt him by leaving Rivendell against his will. The idea alone, is ridiculous. Arwen is an Elf who's nearly 3000 years old, considered wise. She's not Éowyn.

Furthermore, again, Aragorn needed to prove himself worthy, not only to wed Arwen, but also to become a King. Arwen wouldn't help him actively in his "quest", she'd only support him by giving advice.

And again, this is true for book-Arwen. Who cares about movie-Arwen. Pah.
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Furthermore, again, Aragorn needed to prove himself worthy, not only to wed Arwen, but also to become a King. Arwen wouldn't help him actively in his "quest", she'd only support him by giving advice.

Is a person not worthy if he accepts help from others? Is Aragorn not worthy because he receives help from others along the way besides Arwen?! Man, you have a thing against Arwen taking up arms, Vir.
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Man, you have a thing against Arwen taking up arms, Vir.

I have a thing against book-Arwen taking up arms, yes. Lucky she didn't do that, eh ?

As far as i know, the only she-elf who took up arms was Idril Celebrindal.

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Is a person not worthy if he accepts help from others? Is Aragorn not worthy because he receives help from others along the way besides Arwen?!

There's a difference between helping someone and doing all the work. Are you worthy of winning the 100 m sprint if you are helped by a motorcycle or if you are carried on Maurice Greene's shoulders ? And pls don't put words into my mouth.
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Furthermore, again, Aragorn needed to prove himself worthy, not only to wed Arwen, but also to become a King. Arwen wouldn't help him actively in his "quest", she'd only support him by giving advice.

And again, this is true for book-Arwen. Who cares about movie-Arwen. Pah.


You make a good point, but the emphasis is wrong. Aragorn had to prove himself worthy, yes; and Elrond made clear that there was only one way he could do it: by defeating Sauron and becoming the high King of men. Nothing else would suffice. So it wasn't a matter of proving himself on a day by day, point by point basis, and anything Arwen could do to help would have been welcomed.
Also, movie Arwen is really is a JRRT creation is some ways; only she is "Appendix A" Arwen. The only major point of difference is her taking the place of Glorfindel. and maybe if Glofindel hadn't existed, Elrond would have been willing to have Arwen go. The Ring was in desperate need of a shepard. I'm not sure that JRRT would have objected; Grondmaster makes a good point by drawing parallels between "movie" Arwen and Eowyn.
We are in agreement about movie -Elrond; he's very different from, and beneath, the Elrond of the book. Shama Puma had a great discussion (I'm not sure where it is - somewhere on the website) about how the movie tended to morally dumb the characters down - and Elrond was one of the worst examples.
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The only major point of difference is her taking the place of Glorfindel. and maybe if Glofindel hadn't existed, Elrond would have been willing to have Arwen go.

That's where we disagree, then. I don't think Elrond would ever do that. I think he would rather go himself than to send his daughter.

And actually i doubt whether Arwen would be able to stand up against the Nazgûl. She's a descendant of Lúthien, but not Lúthien herself.

Anyway i think it's hardly any use comparing the books to the movies : movie-Aragorn is different from book-Aragorn as well, insecure about himself and his heritage, etc. Not to mention the romance is different as well : in the books they're already betrothed, but in the movies Aragorn tells Arwen to go to the Grey Havens (and actually thinks she's gone as well in TTT).

The thing is, it's hardly a mistake replacing Glorfindel by Arwen : it's just a choice PJ made when adapting LOTR. I disagree with this choice, but i can accept it.
I
I had a quick read of the posts and I haven't seen Vir say anything I didn't agree on. Don't have time to join the discussion today. I just wanted to say I agreed. Smile Smilie
Virumor stated:
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And pls don't put words into my mouth.

Who? Where? What words? Those sneaky little things. Paranoid Smilie
Nice to see a real contributing "last post before May". I think it's gonna be selected as POTW for sure.
Virumor: If you are proposing a candidate for POTW, please indicate to which one you are referring. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie Okay, I know you were doing so with tongue in cheek, but you forgot the Elf Sticking Tounge Out Smilie icon. Big Laugh Smilie
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I think it's gonna be selected as POTW for sure.

POTW? Post Of The Weak?

And anyways, Grondy, Virumor seems to be in the habbit of assuming that all of us here are very smart or maybe its just that trifles like smilies only seem to waste his oh-so-precious time!
What a sad page this is becoming. Can we please get back to discussing mistakes in the movies? I am sure there must be more orcs with watches and things like that.
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I am sure there must be more orcs with watches and things like that.

Well i saw one of the Uruk-Hai at Helm's Deep wearing a Big Ben.

And there are various scenes in which Legolamb's Elvish broche gets flipped from left to right.

Furthermore, wasn't the green ooze coming out of Frodo's eye when he's on Asfaloth a mistake ? I wonder what on earth that was when i first saw it.
I've only just got around to watching the last extras disc on RotK, but they mentioned one in there which tickled me. After a gruelling day putting on their best emotional heads for the tearful Grey Havens scene, they noticed after filming that Sean Asten (Sam) had taken his waistcoat off during his lunch break and had forgotten to put it back on. A second day was spent repeating this scene, but when the film came back from the developers, they found it was all out of focus, necessitating a third day's shoot. I got the impression Sean was not Mr Popular over that one.
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Absolutely not. I've said this before in other posts: the building up of Arwen is, from a Tolkien lover's perspective, one of the best decisions PJ made. It's completely true to the spirit of the story, and in some sense corrects one of the few errors JRRT made (leaving her such a background figure.)


I'm sorry, but I just can't let this slide: Oxford English Professors (a title only given to the department head) do NOT need correction by film directors. As far as the building up goes, I was kinda hoping to see the banner Arwen personally wove (using mithril, among other things) for Aragorn unfurled at the Battle of the Pelennor since it's one of the most vivid images in my mind from the book. The sad fact is, Arwen was not a prominent part of the story. She stayed behind the scenes, and for good reason (unless she snuck off for the movie like Luthien did with Beren.) Meanwhile, in the book the Flooding of the Ford was accomplished by a Ring (or Rings if you count Gandalfs flourishes) of Power, not some "Elvish magic" of Arwen. Jackson just felt the need to bring to the fore the underlying romance because he was making a movie and had to market it with LCDs.
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It's completely true to the spirit of the story, and in some sense corrects one of the few errors JRRT made (leaving her such a background figure.)

It's not. In the books, Arwen and Aragorn got betrothed on the hill of Cerin Amroth in III 2980, and since then Arwen had always been a big motivation for Aragorn in his quest for kingship.

In the movies though, none of this is the case : Aragorn even sends her away to the Grey Havens in TTT and then begins flirting with Éowyn. Not to mention, Aragorn even doubts whether he's strong enough to be the King (see the "the same weakness is in my blood" speech).True to the spirit of JRRT's story ? Hah.

And then, originally Arwen was supposed to fight at the battle of Helm's Deep as well, but PJ took it out after some "crackpot Tolkienites" complained too much.

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The sad fact is, Arwen was not a prominent part of the story. She stayed behind the scenes, and for good reason (unless she snuck off for the movie like Luthien did with Beren.)

She is a prominent part of the story, even though she stays behind the scenes. Compare to Sauron : isn't he a prominent part of the story, even though he stays behind the scenes ?
Highly visible, then. I didn't mean to discount Arwens importance, by any means, just to reiterate that she didn't need to be subjected to contrived (and reisionary) reasons for more camera time. The Helms Deep thing blows my mind.
Actually, isn't it ironic that in PJ's flicks, Sauron was highly visible in the form of a huge Eye ?

I'm actually fairly disappointed now not to have seen Arwen kick Uruk-Hai butt at Helm's Deep... twas already ruined anyway, so what the heck ? She wouldn't have done a worse job than the Elvish version of Pee Wee Herman : Haldir.

Maybe i played Lineage too much, but i have a weakness for Elven warrior chicks.
Ross said
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The biggest mistake of all was letting this PJ have the rights to make the film in the first place. I also missed Tom as it explains a lot about the nature of the ring, plus Glorfindel is one of the best characters and they missed him out. That PJ's a jerk.


You got that right friend!!!! Mad Smilie
A thing that always bothers me is when Pippin screams and rolls away from a Rohirrim horse in the camp of the orcs, his hands are free; but then when Aragorn is tracing what happened it shows Pip cutting the bonds from his wrists after the fact. Or am I mistaken?
I have listened to Viggo read some of his poetry and never thought he had a real Danish accent. And he was born in Manhattan and lived there a while and then lived in Venezuela, Argentina and Denmark, so I don't understand why he would not have some of those countries influence on his speech as well as Denmark. But no matter,for someone that had not even read any of the books when asked to be Aragorn, I thought he did remarkably well.
one mistake that i thought i saw (but please forgive me if a0 its not right, or b) its a well known fact) in RotK when frodo is taken captive after being stung by Shelob, the camera pans in on a wide shot of Cirith Ungol, zooming t'wards the tower, then in through a window, well in slow motion it looks like one can se the top of a pair of White, elastic top Boxer shorts on mr baggins, maybe im mistaken tho Big Smile Smilie
Are you serious? Are you sure that you just weren't mistaking a part of the pants that he did have on?
no seriously, check the DVD, the clothes he's wearing are dirty and brown, this is a bright white stripe, anyway, check the DVD, thats why i posted it, to check i wasnt goin barmy Big Smile Smilie
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