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I also thought the interaction between Treebreard and the Hobbits was handled wrong and that Peter Jackson missed the boat as far as what happened at Helm's Deep. However, I was still a fine movie, it just told a different story than the one I read in the book.

By overcoming the hopeless cause via Treabeard's Huron, and the breaking of Saruman's staff by Gandalf, the Rohirrim were now free to go to meet their destiny on the Fields of Pelannor, no longer having an enemy in their backyard.
Yup....I felt the same way to....I donīt like the way he does these things....ah well...Iīll get over it....at least I can watch and be amazed of the GREAT ACTING although he has completely destroyed my interest for LOTR(the movies not the books....the books will forever be in my heart!)
Sometimes I think I'm a PJ apologist: while I wince at certain changes, I feel like it's a child, and I was just glad to see it born after waiting so long. Fulfillmed many of my dreams, though it disappoints others.

I see why the Huorns aren't there.

1) We already have the Ents storming Isengard; let's try and make sure the battles are different in flavor.
2) Jackson would've had to spend time explaining the Huorns as opposed to Ents. Would this have advanced the story in a big way? Not really.
3) Gandalf's light blasted out the orcs pretty well: they may be better-equipped for daylight, but the divine light of Aman is still too much (which is in the book).
4) It would have cheapened "the cavalry is here!" feeling at the end, which PJ had taken pains to "punch up" a few notches from the book.
5) PJ made the controversial decision to have his elves be more proactive, instead of advising in FOTR, then vanishing and saying, "bye bye boys, have fun storming the castle!" Having no elves in this movie would've been a letdown for non-canon-purists. Where are they? Why don't they help? Why are we left holding the bag? Also this way Jackson could hint at the complex history of Middle-Earth, the role of Elves and Men, and give Arwen more "context" - we see her culture. As a result, adding "the cavalry is here" with Elves and "the cavalry is here" with Éomer really made a third "cavalry" moment redundant and silly.
6) PJ is picking up on a theme spoken at the Council of Elrond, that thre strength of men has f ailed. Boromir and Aragorn argue over whether Aragorn's not trusting enough in fallible but honorable men. This battle shows Men in the scheme of things, not just CGI creatures, and let's face it; we identify with them strongly.
7. PJ was interested in a Cecil B. DeMille sort of way of showing what it really fells like to be in an assault, the terror, the boxed in feeling, the confusion, the thump of spears, the civilians waiting resignedly or terrified, and most of all that eerie sound of rain hitting splint mail. The latter really did it for me: suddenly I was there, and it was real.

For me 7 was a real treat. I've heard that sound before, and it brings back such vivid memories. But seeing siege and the plight of the people of Rohan shows what's being fought for: an important, important detail. It shows how the country is ravaged, and that even when the good guys win, "winning" isn't a simple thing: the world has changed and will need much healing. I saw this as equivalent in to the loving portrayal of the Shire in the first movie, and just to make sure you get it, Sam spills out the point.


Again I'm not sure it was worth it to expand Helm's deep so much, but though I grudge what's missed, I enjoy what's in.
What you say rings true sepdep and it was a good movie. When I finally get the DVD and can see it for a second time it will start to grow on me. Right now all I can see in my memory are PJ's changes, but reading all your analyses have made those changes completely understandable and all I have to do is see the movie again to cement them in place. Thanks. Happy Elf Smilie
Well I think it was quite silly that the elves when running towards the orcs, when they had breached the wall, didnīt mind getting skewered by some orcs.....I mean hello! Was Aragorn the only one who was smart enough to swing his sword so that he fought of the spears?!?! Fool of a Took!Tongue Smilie
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I mean hello! Was Aragorn the only one who was smart enough to swing his sword so that he fought of the spears?!?! Fool of a Took!


Big Laugh Smilie I guess Elves aren't as smart as we thought!!
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but why didnt they use the Hurons anyway.


I hope this isn't too off topic, but I'm pretty certain that the Huorns will be featured at the battle of Helm's Deep in the extended DVD edition of TTT. I think all of us who were a little (or alot) upset with the treatment of Treebeard, the Ents, and the Huorns, will be far more pleased when the extended DVD version comes out.
Elf Smilie
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I think all of us who were a little (or alot) upset with the treatment of Treebeard, the Ents, and the Huorns, will be far more pleased when the extended DVD version comes out.
I certainly hope so Elfstone, that indeed would be an improvement.
Yes me to....a darn great improvement Elfstone....
In the 'July' edition of Empire Dominic Monohagan, who plays Pippin, claims that in the TTT E/E we will get to see the Ent draught scene and the scene where Pippin and Merry find Saruman's larder of food, pipeweed etc that is described in Flotsam and Jetsam as well as some info. on Farmir and Denethor's relationship. Whoopeee.
And Elijah Wood played Frodo Baggins whilst Sean Astin played our dear Samwise Gamgee......Ian McKellen played Gandalf, Viggo Mortensen played Aragorn, son of Arathorn aka Elessar, Strider and Trotter(Tolkienīs earlier name for StriderTongue Smilie )

And then of course we have Sala Baker who plays SauronTongue Smilie
hehehe
Don't let them get to you Findekano. We know you have better spent your time studying the books, rather than the movie credits, for which we are thankful. Cool Elf Smilie
And lets face it, most people can't tell the difference between Merry and Guildenstern anyway Wink Smilie
I hate to rain on your parade, but i dont think that the hurons will make any appearance at all. The ents are already at Isengard so they dont need to have ents of any kind at helms deep, it would be giving them too much attention.

I also hate how the story gets very soap opera like twards the middle of the movie as everyone starts to go their sepreate ways.
Most of the orcs were killed be this dark forest when they tried to flee. Then they dissappeared somehow. I dunno. i was confusing.
Big Smile Smilie OMG that is my favorite part of the movie. I love the tension and the realness of it. It was so exciting. But I was disappointed in that Helm's Deep was only a very small battle in the book and in the movie it was like the big battle for mankind and there is still Gondore and all those places out there. But i really liked the part when legolas jumped on his shield and slid down the stairs shooting the arrows!!!!!

*sorry, LadyOfLorien, pictures are not allowed.

[Edited on 12/10/2003 by Allyssa]
Legolas sliding down on that shield reminded me both of Last Action Hero and Back to the Future (and Spaceballs). I didn't get how that elf was able to keep up the shooting - looks like he has some sidekick running behind his back all the time and refilling his arrow-ammunition.

I didn't understand why Aragorn was a chief of the Lorien army suddenly - apparently he decided to make use of these fresh forces by kamikazing them into some uruk-hai spears. (which resulted in Haldir being wiped out) But the elves weren't there in the book, so it was allright that they all died (melodramatically or not).

For any, i wasn't really able to follow the battle well in lack of a slow motion. It went all too fast, i think it would be better if we had a fighting scene like in the beginning of Saving Private Ryan, with lots of slow motion and zooming on the battlefield, instead of lightning speed whacking and slashing and firing one-liners (Gimli!).

I was disappointed that Eomer didn't stand at Aragorn's side at the battle of helm's deep, and that Eowyn was there. I think if Eowyn was at helm's deep, she would have fought for sure. Anyway, i've heard/read somewhere that in the TTT extended, she is gonna whack some Orc in the caves so that should explain some.

Also, we didn't really see Aragorn showing off a lot like he did in the books, where he did some remarkable stuff, so for me the battle wasn't really impressive. I hope the battle of the Pelennor fields will be better, although i doubt we will see the forces of Mordor catapulting heads with the mark of the red eye over the walls of Minas Tirith, but you never know.
Virumor (with the lovely avatar) said:
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But the elves weren't there in the book, so it was allright that they all died (melodramatically or not).


At least in the extended dvd the writers acknowledge the changes. And they were right, there was definitely a WOW factor to the elves arriving. Why is it so sad when an elf dies, yet thousands more men died. They live longer anyway and then go on to Valinor Butlins for a rest.

I quite expected dwarfs to turn up in RotK.

I loved Helm's Deep and I loved all the extras explaining the sets and stuff.
So nyer!
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At least in the extended dvd the writers acknowledge the changes

I am able to see that for myself now, since i recieved the special extended TTT dvd for x-mas - maybe as a practical joke, maybe not. I still stay with my earlier negative outburst : there should be no Elves at helm's deep, and even if there were no other option to put them in (which PJ claims) Aragorn shouldn't suddenly act as the wise veteran who already has 10000 orc heads under his belt, telling the Elvish archers not to spare the Uruk-Hai because they are evil... That line made me wonder how "Duh" sounds in the language of the Galadhrim.

Anyway it was a good thing that we saw Haldir be hacked in 5 pieces : he was annoying.

I wonder if there are any Haldir interviews on the 3rd or 4th dvd, now that i think of it. I need a laugh.
Virumor said:

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I wonder if there are any Haldir interviews on the 3rd or 4th dvd, now that i think of it. I need a laugh.


I seem to recall seeing the actor in the extras on TTT and thinking PHWOAAAAR, he looks better in real life. Me, shallow?