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Thread: Barbie in LOTR!

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Yes, it is true! Ken and Barbie as Legolas and Galadriel!

Am I right in thinking there is already a Ken and Barbie as Aragorn and Arwen?

(shudder)
Arwen ain't blond. Not that that's an issue for Mattel but still. And why Legolamb and Galadriel?? Can't they try to stay true to the books and stick to Celeborn and Galadriel? Idiots.

Erika from Princess and the Pauper is not blond-she'd make a great Arwen! Ask my daughter...

Hideous idea, Barbie as anything Tolkien. Very disturbing.
Yes, rather a wretched idea that.

I thought Ken had been discontinued, some thing called "Blane" had taken his place.
"Some thing" called Blane is right, Stoney-are we all sure Mattel is not trying to pass off a tiny version of John Tesh as a male doll to us? Very eerie doll, to be sure. Might come alive at night to murder us...
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Very eerie doll, to be sure. Might come alive at night to murder us...
Or to tuck-in his owner and gently plant a kiss on her forehead. Kiss Smilie

(He'd probably ignore the male owners, not wishing to wake them for a mere handshake.) Fast Asleep Smilie
Ken and Barbie in LOTR? Barbie must have had a new Hairdo then. I remeber she had straight hair.

And besides that, I didn't see any pink in Lorien, at least not the barbie pink.
And Legolass as Ken? Wasn't the new boyfriend of Barbie a surfer dude. That fits the description of Legolass in the movies.
ken and barbie in LOTR ???? absolutely not.... Shaking Head Smilie
Got a link for us Vee

*shudders when she remembers the awful Aragorn and Arwen Barbie*
I saw a Eowyn doll... Not much to see. Elf Rolling Eyes Smilie The box was better than the doll.
It wasn't labeled Barbie though, some collectors thing I guess.
Galadriel
http://www.barbiecollector.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=H1179

Legolas
http://www.barbiecollector.com/shop/product.aspx?product_id=61170&shelfid=150005

Now you can say what you like now that you know what they look like. Haha.
i just went to look at the galadriel and legolas and they were very scary *shudders* never want to see that again
not good, but if Galadriel and Legolas are 'Ken and Barbie' then where is poor Celeborn? is Galadriel having an affair??? with a very young legolas (well Legolas is young compared to her)
Poor Gimli, caught in a terrible triangle. Elf Winking Smilie
Oh no, first it was the pregnant Midge business and now it's Gladys and Leggy! Barbie has bad influence on LOTR...
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not good, but if Galadriel and Legolas are 'Ken and Barbie' then where is poor Celeborn? is Galadriel having an affair??? with a very young legolas (well Legolas is young compared to her)

Technically Galadriel & Celeborn were never officially married, hence no problem there. They were merely living together, that's all.
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Technically Galadriel & Celeborn were never officially married, hence no problem there. They were merely living together, that's all.


Source? Celebrimbor certainly got the impression they were more than just living together (or maybe not; he did give her a Ring, after all. ) Are you telling me Celebrian was illegitimate? Seems very un-Tolkienlike for them to be "living in sin" but that's just me. Just 'cos we never saw them married doesn't mean anything; we never saw Arwen and Aragorn or Beren and Luthien married either, but given the reaction of the two brides fathers to the mere suggestion I can't think "oh, no, I don't want to marry her, just shack up. Highness." would have flown. It's also entirely possible the internet doesn't transmit facetiousness well. As to Kenolas and Barbadriel... ugh.
Well as nor Galadriel's father nor Galadriel's mother had acknowledged their 'union', as both stayed behind in Valinor whilst their daughter was off to Beleriand, the 'marriage' between Galadriel & Celeborn never became official in Middle-earth.

But of course, it depends what version of the story of Galadriel & Celeborn one follows; I am talking about the Silmarillion version here, where G & C met in Doriath.

There are of course other versions where G & C met in AlqualondŽ, for instance, which is something completely different.

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never saw Arwen and Aragorn or Beren and Luthien married either, but given the reaction of the two brides fathers to the mere suggestion I can't think "oh, no, I don't want to marry her, just shack up.

Well in the books both couples were in fact officially married, with the acknowledgement of the fathers (eventually). This is not the cause with G & C.

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Are you telling me Celebrian was illegitimate? Seems very un-Tolkienlike for them to be "living in sin" but that's just me.

Don't underestimate JRRT. After all, there's Turin & Nienor.

Sorry if this is a tangent from this thread, but I could not leave this point unanswered.
I must disagree with that premise, Mir. Galadriel and Celeborn were indeed Lord and Lady, which meant they were married. I do not know offhand the place in the Silmarillion to which we might refer, and maybe the proof is not there either. But I do not think you can posit something completely alien to Tolkien's mind and claim it must be so simply because you cannot find positive proof otherwise. Look at the overwhelming evidence of the other unions he presents to the reader in LOTR and all his works. Every union of this type was in fact a marriage, and he could not have presented this one enduring as anything other than a marriage.

The "consent" of the parents is merely sought to legitimize proceeding, so that the daughter does not consent to marry without due thought for her own future. But the only real consent needed for marriage is that of the bride and groom. That Tolkien intended this real concept of marriage to be transmitted in his works is confirmed by his engraving "Luthien" on his wife's gravestone and having "Beren" engraved on his own. And since the marriage of Aragorn and Arwen was to mirror that of Beren and Luthien, how can we think that Celeborn and Galadriel, from whom Arwen was eventually to come, were any different? I must conclude they were not any different.
Now now, G-O. You know better than to get worked up by Mir. You should know by now that he is the king of sarcasm and what he says often needs a grain or kilo of salt. Wink Smilie

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Every union of this type was in fact a marriage, (...)

I wouldn't say every union was a marriage, I would say that every marriage is a union. Seems to me that "getting married" was what the humans did, probably an adaption of the way the "immortals" showed the world that they had found their life partner.
I actually meant that it is certain that G & C did share a union, but not necessarily a marriage. Nowhere in JRRT's works their marriage is mentioned, unlike with Beren & Lķthien, and Aragorn & Arwen. That they were Lord & Lady, was simply because the couple was accepted as thus by the Galadhrim after Amroth & Nimrodel had disappeared.

JRRT did write about Elven marriage in "Laws and customs of the Eldar", and i seem to remember that the consent of the parents was of primordial importance (though it's been a while since i read it). Not to mention, once must remember that Beren deemed Thingol's approval to his relationship with Lķthien quite important, too (in his eyes, there was no union possible without his approval - cf Sil).

And i agree with AmariŽ, not every union is necessarily a marriage. But this is true for the present, where it is perfectly normal (albeit not everywhere) for two ppl living together, without being married. But in JRRT's times, not to mention Middle-earth, it was quite something else.

Anyway, as I seem to remember that it was possible for somebody else to replace the parent of the broom/bride, i reckon that Melian and/or Thingol gave their consent (for the same, Galadriel gave her consent as a replacement of Arwen's mother in FOTR, when she handed over the Elessar to Aragorn - which was part of the Elvish marriage customs).

So Galadriel is home free, it seems. I will forget that she married her cousin..

Really, who cares if they were married or not, anyway. They loved each other and were together. That's all that matters.
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And i agree with AmariŽ

Ahhh, I like to hear such things. Makes me feel smart.

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But this is true for the present, where it is perfectly normal (albeit not everywhere) for two ppl living together, without being married.
But in JRRT's times, not to mention Middle-earth, it was quite something else.

*nods* I am as usual very bad at explaining my thoughts. It could also be that my thoughts are not logical to anyone but me.

This will probably just confuse people more but here goes.

Many birds choose one partner for life too, but we don't say they are married. Even if they have their rituals and create very strong bonds between themselves before nesting. It may not be a marriage as we see it, but it means a lot to them. In a simular (but more human) way, elves could fall in love and form a union, with rituals which means the same to them as marriage would do to humans (M-E humans). It may not be simmular enough to be called a marriage, since we have so many thoughts, ideas and rituals connected to it, but still it isn't less than a marriage.

The Ainur didn't get married as far as I have heard. Many of the first elves were placed two and two and woke up as couples, but I can't remember reading about any wedding rings. Still there is a union and a bond between the couples, but it isn't called 'marriage'.
I guess it all depends what one takes the word 'marriage' for. For some it is merely a legal bond, for others it has a religious connotation.

Marriage among the Eldar did have a whole lot of ceremony and custom involved, and it seems that G & C did not follow those customs but this does hardly matter. A union is a union, no matter in what form.
As I said, I must disagree with Mir on this. You are proposing a thing which is not possible in Tolkien--a union of man and wife without a marriage. I am not talking about particular ceremonies which would not translate to the elves. That is not the problem. Tolkien's entire mindset would have abhorred what you think of as "normal"--that two people in "love" can live together without marrying each other. You might expect to find proof of every major marriage like that of Galadriel and Celeborn, but I do not. That does not matter, because Tolkien has already set the tone for this. You do not look at his works and assume that these two were just living together without a marriage. You might as well argue that I am not married because there is no proof of it in the school papers I correct, or here on PT! Instead, logically, you must assume the status quo, which is that the Lord and Lady of the Galadrim were married--until you have proof to the contrary. More than likely, you will find a reference in the HOME or somewhere in the Letters that they were.
There was a union of love between G & C, that is certain. I really do not care whether one wants to refer to it as 'marriage', or not.

I myself, though, do not refer to the union between G & C as 'marriage', that's all, just like that i would not call the union between ManwŽ & Varda, AulŽ & Yavanna, Aredhel & EŲl, etc. a 'marriage'. I only refer to 'marriage' for bonds between Atani.

And yes, my comment that 'G & C were merely living together' was in fact tongue-in-cheek, I think (I don't even remember what I had for breakfast this morning, after all).
And such marriages are no longer banned in Boston, but I'm not supposed to bring that can of worms into the conversation, so I won't. Still there are also common-law marriages in many jurisdictions where, if without benefit of justice or clergy, a man and woman live together for so many years, they are legally considered as married. Also G & C may have had a formal wedding at some time in the First Age, but the documenting piece of parchment may have rotted over the intervening millenia.
That is precisely my point, Grondy. If we follow the logic of Tolkien, we have to assume that G & C were married and that such a thing as a document, as you say, just turned to dust over time.
What's all this argument about G&C being married or not? Who CARES? They were together, and they did what wedded couples do, and they had the bond that wedded couples have, who cares if they were indeed wedded or not? They're as good as wedded, so there.
Yes, no matter the innuendos about Galadriel & Gimli (or Celebrimbor), she and Celeborn were very happy together.

So happy, that Galadriel in the end parted only and Celeborn stayed behind in Middle-earth for a couple of centuries.

Distance increases the longing.
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Distance increases the longing.

You mean "Absinthe make the heart go founder"?
No, absinthe apparently caused epilepsy and made people mad, hence its prohibition.
Mind explaining to us ignorant young'uns what absinthe is?
A French high-alcoholic (Pernod Fils had 68%, for instance) anise-flavoured liquor, prohibited in 1915. Twas very popular among French painters in Paris at the end of the 19th century (for example, look at Edgar Degas's painting "L'absinthe").
Still don't get what it has to do with distance increasing the longing... are you sugggesting celeborn was an alcoholic?
No, Celeborn was a miruvoric.
oh. I get where Arwen gets her wine-guzzling genes from now....
No, Arwen merely started 'guzzling' wine to get rid of her cold hands, as 'the life of the Eldar was leaving her' (sic) according to Elrond Smith.

Or maybe to get through those boring days in which she was waiting for her Ranger to return on a white stallion and take her away from daddy dearest.

It might have been more useful to knit that Banner of the White Tree, of course, but who knows what she spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all her life seemed shrinking, and the walls of her bower closing in about her, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?
Quite alike to her grandparents on her mother's side!

Galadriel: drinking in blissful Valinor (all those crazy parties!), and as if that weren't enough, she runs off to ME to continue her wild alcoholic pursuit (I bet Thingol had quite a stock hidden in his Manycaves). Why else do you think she married Celeborn?

Celeborn: young and carefree in good ole ME, drinking the boredom away (like his granddaughter). Has a boring father (also like his granddaughter). Gets married in hope of a more exciting life (his granddaughter again!)
And so we have finally reached the truth about the matter : G & C married because they were drunk after yet another bacchanal in Doriath, just like any random couple that leaves a chapel in Las Vegas nowadays.

(until now, I had always surmised that Galadriel had chosen Celeborn because of the latter's colourful Quenya name, "Teleporno")
Really? Wine is the foundation of love. Look at how much wine there is in Mirkwood!
No, whine is the foundation of love. Remember all those balcony scenes and pompous monologues.
Yes, indeed, maybe the reason Nerdanel stopped loving Feanor was because Feanor no longer whined.
FŽanor never stopped whining (remember the Speech before the Noldor). She might have been disappointed that he stopped whining about her.
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And such marriages are no longer banned in Boston, but I'm not supposed to bring that can of worms into the conversation, so I won't.


Funny enough, my first marriage was in Boston, Grondy. I wish someone had banned that one.
Probably not in Boston, Massachusetts, though. (;-)
Interesting reading !! You guys always KRAKEN me up Big Laugh Smilie

I have to agree with Gandalf, such a thing would probably never ever enter the Professor's world that he created. That would I think make a chaos of what he made perfect, and the family lines would be nothing then. I think it is implied throughout the entire canon of his work that JRR Tolkien meant marriage, not co habitation. I will do more research but I am quite confident that Gandalf is correct in this understanding. And am confident that to be called Lord and Lady then, in that world and right up until now in English life means the two are married, period.

I've seen the Barbie diarama set of Ellesar and Arwen in full wedding regalia and it's quiet beautiful. Haven't seen the above mentioned Galadriel one, but would imagine it would be with Celeborn. Matel do bring out limited edition sets of well known or recognisable characters from time to time, and they seem to do them well. I'll have to take a look on line.

That Celebrían  exists proves that Galadriel and Celeborn were married.

In Tolkien's world

'But these ceremonies were not rites necessary to marriage; they were only a gracious mode by which the love of the parents was manifested, and the union was recognized which would join not only the betrothed but their two houses together. It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete. (...) In days of old, in times of trouble, in flight and exile and wandering, such marriages were often made.'

JRRT, Laws And Customs Among The Eldar, Morgoth's Ring

 

 'But these ceremonies were not rites necessary to marriage; they were only a gracious mode by which the love of the parents was manifested, and the union