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Thread: Is Gimli Becoming A Comic Relief?

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I agree with you Arwen. I thought many of Gimli's lines, especially in the Two Towers (movie) were too modern. You make a good point though, it is probably to lighten things up for those that find the movie too dark. I personally don't think a character should be compromised to please an audience, but I don't think PJ's Gimli is completly ruined, in the first movie you get a better idea of his strength and stubborness.
Sure, as Gimli is the funniest person in the books, he should have some funny lines. But does he really have to convert completely? You don't take him seriously at all anymore. It's a shame!

They are also being constantly mean to Gimli. When the warriors gets to Helm's Deep, Eowyn comes rushing. Gimli tries to speak some with her, but all she cares for is where Aragorn is. (And that's another thing, Aragorn and the cliff? Not to speak about the HORSE! So Angry Smilie )
And when Aragorn finally arrives at Helm's Deep Gimli meets him to tell him how happy he is to see Aragorn alive, and all Aragorn do is shov him off asking for the King! It get me so ANGRY! Aaargh! Are they REALLY allowed to treat Gimli like that? So Angry Smilie So Angry Smilie So Angry Smilie So Angry Smilie So Angry Smilie So Angry Smilie
I agree with you guys, they've ruined Gimli. When AmariŽ and I was at the theater to see the movie, people all around us laughed as soon as he opened his mouth to speak. At first I thought "It isn't that bad", but when Gimli contained to act like a stupid moron throughout the film, I got really mad!
A dwarf would never approve of such a disrespectful role that Gimli has been given, he would probably jumped out of the screen and slayed us all before we could scream "run"! This, and several other things in the TTT, really annoys me deeply...*sighs* But I'm to young to have a heartattack, so I'll just leave this matter alone for a while...but I'm still irritated! Shaking Head Smilie
I don't think Gimli is ruined at all.A little bit more funny but probably because without laugh this movie would be a drama or something like that...besides you can't denie that all of his lines were quite funny and said in place...
I was devastated and felt betrayed. Gimli didn't have much to do in the FOTR, but never came off too bad (except for the "tosses" bit) and in the extended version is quite good. In the new movie, he never does anything but act in a completely stereotypical, non-Tolkien D&D dwarf way. The first part of the book, to me, was about the three heroes chasing across the plains of Rohan. But here, it becomes the two heroes and an idiot who falls down and complains all the time, and is always lagging behind. Then, for the rest of the movie he is just comic releif--burping at a serious council meeting? Falling off a horse--Gimli never even wanted to ride one! The too-big mail shirt (he brought his own!), etc. At least he did a bit of good fighting, and laughed along with Legolas's "box" joke to save a little dignity, but the depth of his character was sacrificed for Hollywood comic relief, and I hated it.
I agree completley with you Dain_ll. They shouldnīt have made Gimli play that role. He should be a great warrior and very well brought up. But here you see him burp in a REALLY SERIOUS meeting. But the box joke was very funny because Legolas treats him as a good friend and jokes around with him and Gimli laughs to ensure Legolas that he thought it was a funny joke.... And Gimli shouldnīt blow Helms horn. He should be coming out from the caves with a bandage on his head and pronunces that he has beaten Legolas in the game.... one more thing. GIMLI RULES!!
Exactly. The one joke where he laughed back, fine, but the continous buffoonery was too much. That said, he did fight well. I guess they let him blow the horn because he would have fallen off the horse again had he charged with them... Shaking Head Smilie One of the men of Rohan should have blown their ancient and special horn, though. Also, from the Silm "[Dwarves] suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples." But, I suppose somebody had to complain or it would have seemed too easy to chase orcs for three days and nights without stopping! Maybe the orcs should have complained! Big Smile Smilie
I was not upset by the light comic relief that Gimli provided. It was all in good faith and did not make him look a fool. As for his grumbling, I've always seen dwarves in that light anyway.
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Dwarves suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples." But, I suppose somebody had to complain or it would have seemed too easy to chase orcs for three days and nights without stopping!
Well it was Gimli who did that in the book anyway...

From TTT - Riders of Rohan
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"And yet even I, Dwarf of many journeys, and not the least hardy of my folk, cannot run all the way to Isengard without any pause," said Gimli. "My heart burns me too, and I would have started sooner; but now I must rest a little to run the better."
Okay, he perhaps did not complain as much as portrayed in the film, but it was Gimli who struggled to keep up with the other two.
It was Gimli with the short bandy legs who had to move them twice as fast just to keep up with the elf and man. Yes, the Dwarf constitution lets them work for hours on end without tiring, but they tend to run down when they are working twice as hard. It is after trials like this that the Dwarves need their beauty sleep.
I agree completely with Val. I think everyone else must have went to see a different movie than I did. Stupid moron? Continuous bufoonery? That is a very drastic overstatement! It's not as if he was stumbling around like Curly going "woo woo woo... ayng ayng ayng!"

It was indeed "light comic relief" and it was welcomed by me. Seems some people will go out of their way to find something to complain about.

"Toss me... ack! But don't tell the Elf!" Big Laugh Smilie

[Edited on 2/9/2003 by ProgHead777]
I disagree, and perhaps because he was my favorite character from the books, I notice it more. I mean, he makes more gaffes in the Two Towers film than Pippin did in the fellowship! Burping, falling off horses, getting stuck under wargs and falling down hillsides are the actions of a buffoon, not a heroic dwarf. Meanwhile, they make Legolas, by contrast, into the most badass uber ninja elf ever. I know few people have much respect for dwarves and so he's an easy target, but still, he could be funny without losing his dignity--that would be the sign of a well-done script and classy directing--but, apart from the part where he laughs back at legolas' joke, he doesn't. And the "tosses" parts are almost the worst, because it references that silly scene in the first one where they waste five minutes on a crumbling staircase, and tehn he has to be saved by someone grabbing his beard. I mean, how did the dwarf race survive and prosper if one of their greatest representatives is such a bumbling moron? Doesn't help that John Rhys-Davies is such a ham, though a pleasant one at most times...

Valedhelgwath: your quote is actually a good example of the transformation. In the book, Gimli is articulate and apologetic in his complaints, whereas in the film, he falls down a hillside and is out of breath every time we see him. Not quite an example of "Dwarves too can go swiftly, and do not tire sooner than orcs" is it... Of course, Legolas and Aragorn are going to be better than Gimli in a chase like this, but that would hold of almost anybody, so he does rather well. Actually, I didn't mind the chase so much in the film, except for the falling down bit...

I guess when you've been waiting years to see your favorite heroic dwarf in a film, and he turns out much like most of the other dwarven buffoons we've seen before, you get a little disappointed.
Well, that pretty much explains it then. While reading the books I was relatively indifferent to Gimli. I enjoyed the progression of his relationship to Legolas, and certainly the Paths of the Dead scene would not have been quite as effective without him. But all in all, I noticed Gimli in the films more than I did in the books because... well, because he was far more noticeable!

Perhaps movie Gimli will be redeemed in your eyes in RotK... maybe even in the TTT extended version Wink Smilie Recall that Gimli's coolest scenes got cut for the theatrical release of FotR.
Yes Proghead777 I think that you are right about that he might be redeemed in the extended version or in RotK. But it is a very cruel thing to do against Gimli son of Gloin. Why do they depict Gimli as a comic relief when Legolas gets to be a ninja elf Big Laugh Smilie Its rediculos... I think that Gimli shouldnīt have blown the horn of Helm Hammerhand. That shouldīve been done by either Gamling or another one of the Rohan people...If Thťodred wouldīve been alive then he shouldīve Big Laugh Smilie hahahahaha
I too feel very outraged about what there did too Gimli. Gimli was one of my favourite characters in the book. I enjoyed his character because when I first read the book, I treated Gimli with disdain but after Helm's Deep, I was filled with the utmost respect of him. Not only from the events in Helm's Deep, but mostly from his contact with Galadriel. I really loved the friendship that Gimli shared with Legolas...it really made me enjoyed the book...
Yes MadWannabe I agree. But I always held Gimli in higher reverence than Legolas, even from the beginning. Maybe because of his father helping Bilbo in The Hobbit! Cool Smilie
Tolkien is choose character of Gimili to be what he realy are.If you didn't know Tolkien is spending much of time thinking what will carachters says and i read here this:
when Aragorn come back from battle in Helm's Deep Gimili say to him that he is very happy to see them alive and Aragorn says what is with king??? Big Laugh Smilie
I think that Aragorn was vorried for the king!!!!
dont you think so.BUT AND I THINK LIKE ALL OF YOU!BUT T O L K I E N IS TOLKIEN Wink Smilie
Quote:
Tolkien is choose character of Gimili to be what he realy are.If you didn't know Tolkien is spending much of time thinking what will carachters says and i read here this:
when Aragorn come back from battle in Helm's Deep Gimili say to him that he is very happy to see them alive and Aragorn says what is with king??? Big Laugh Smilie
I think that Aragorn was vorried for the king!!!!
dont you think so.BUT AND I THINK LIKE ALL OF YOU!BUT T O L K I E N IS TOLKIEN Wink Smilie


No Tolkien didnīt write this danijelciglenjak....this was from the movie The Two Towers....itīs about the movie we are disgussing why Gimli has been turned into a comic relief....
Gimli was funny, but it hurt to see him reduced to a clown. Poor Gimli..
Merry and Pippin are back in action in ROTK so hopefully Gimli will be himself again then..

Guess it's was easier to embarrace Gimli than to come up with 30 fun-things-to-say-while-waiting-for-a-tree-to-speak or 30 fun-things-to-say-when-you-are-heading-for-h*l. Shaking Head Smilie
It just shows a little lack of class, and a little pandering to Hollywood, but I don't blame PJ too much. After listening to the audio commentary of Fellowship, I like the "nobody tosses a dwarf" bit a little better now (though the whole scene is annoying--and the beard bit is a bit too much) and so the bit in the next film is ok referencing that. It will be interesting to see what the next one is like, because I don't honestly remember much about Gimli's role in it--though there is a lot more fighting. If you though Helm's Deep was a battle, wait for Minas Tirith! (Though I hope the elves don't show up there, too...wait, that's a different thread... Wink Smilie )
Okay, okay, you're right... the stuffy boring git from the books was much more appealing.

*waits for stones*
Shocked Smilie
You think what happened in the book was boring? I really enjoyed the Battle At Helm's Deep in the book, though I found it a little too short. Sure, there wasn't much of battle descriptions, but I really enjoyed the mood in the book...I don't really know how to explain it...so well, Sure I liked the movie's battle sequences, they provide me the sense of dread and excitment to see elves, men, dwarf and orcs duking it out, but I feel they neglected to provide the feeling of awe and admiration I felt when I read the book...
Once again the movie trashing sessions continue.... sigh...

Ok I admit, I wasn't too pleased with what PJ did with Gimli. Gimli was certainly more courteous and valiant and hardy and all the good stuff. But this is a movie for crying out loud! A movie has got to have entertainment value! Imagine every single character in the story being absolutely courteous and heroic, flawlessly crafted. Who would stand out???

Actually I found Tolkien's writings a little idealistic (uh oh... I'm stepping on soft ground here...). Did you happen to notice that every prominent righteous character is a smooth talking, polite and wonderfully courageous person? Where did all the uncouth, rude people go to? Now this is good really, because it projects a very positivism, and works nicely in the book. But in a movie, it would just be plain boring.

The comic elements found in the movie through Gimli actually makes an extremely serious movie like TTT light-hearted at appropriate moments. By the end of the movie, I didn't feel like Gimli had become a blundering idiot. I actually liked him for his gruff nature and soft heart, even his clumsiness.

Comic elements are needed in movies like this. Who better to pick on than an old friendly dwarf with such interesting personality, so unlike Elf or Man? Would you have been happy if they made the comic element... Aragorn? Or Gandalf? Or maybe even (God forbid) .... LEGOLAS (although I'd kinda love to see it Big Laugh Smilie ).

Try looking at the positive aspects of it Orc Grinning Smilie
Okay maybe you are right Erkenbrand. But it still doesnīt justify the ridicule of Gimli. And about this...
Quote:
Actually I found Tolkien's writings a little idealistic (uh oh... I'm stepping on soft ground here...).
you are most definately right about stepping on soft ground....So Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry SmilieSo Angry Smilie
Now why would you say that? Tolkien's writing IS idealistic, that's why we all like it so. The characters bear no relation to anybody in reality at all, the heroes are good, very very good (unless they are tempted by the ring) and the villains are bad (very very bad) which makes Gollum a heros incidentally (Hooray!). There's no grey area about this, Tolkien was creating his own kind of Utopia, and thus writing idealistically.
Thanks for listening.
Uh huh. I absolutely agree with that Plastic. I thought that was what made Tolkien's work special and very enjoyable.

Idealism is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just how you perceive it Smile Smilie
Oh, but there are grey areas, I think. I mean, man as a race in Tolkien is almost entirely grey, and dwarves aren't exactly pure in most of their motives, and even elves do really really stupid things (Feanor & sons), while orcs (though bad) do seem to have a little "humanity" (read sections in TTT where orcs speak to one-another, Tokien gives them the voices and mannerisms of...well, they aren't far from some men I know, for example--they sound more like soldiers (albeit nasty ones) than anything...). It's only (some of) the heroes who are bright and shiningly white, and Sauron and Morgoth who are completely black (to continue the grey analogy), I feel.

My Gimli point, boiled down:
says funny things that make people laugh, OK! Thumbs Up Smilie
says and does stupid things that make people laugh and make him look like a clumsy, bumbling idiot (not all the time, and not all the jokes he made, but enough of them, to me) NOT OK. Thumbs Down Smilie So Angry Smilie

There are ways of providing comic relief (examples: sam, gollum, taters; Gimli, Legolas, box) that do not ruin people's favorite characters.
Gimli is a dwarf who deserves A LOT OF RESPECT!! He is an elf-friend....probably the only dwarf to have reached the shores of Aman....(if he made it to Aman...which I do not doubt a second that he didBig Smile Smilie)
He is a great warrior, a fine travelling comrade and a very good friend.....I hope he gets to jump in the sack with Galadriel hahahaha Wink Smilie Big Laugh Smilie
Oh well enough of this ridiculous post that I am sending in....NamariŽ!
Quote:
Oh, but there are grey areas, I think. I mean, man as a race in Tolkien is almost entirely grey, and dwarves aren't exactly pure in most of their motives, and even elves do really really stupid things (Feanor & sons), while orcs (though bad) do seem to have a little "humanity" (read sections in TTT where orcs speak to one-another, Tokien gives them the voices and mannerisms of...well, they aren't far from some men I know, for example--they sound more like soldiers (albeit nasty ones) than anything...). It's only (some of) the heroes who are bright and shiningly white, and Sauron and Morgoth who are completely black (to continue the grey analogy), I feel.


There are ways of providing comic relief (examples: sam, gollum, taters; Gimli, Legolas, box) that do not ruin people's favorite characters.


I completely agree with you Dain_II...... Everything you said was good.... Smoke Smilie
You dirty............... Big Laugh Smilie
Quote:
You dirty............... Big Laugh Smilie

Me? hehehe Big Laugh Smilie Maybe so.......but you never know if Galadriel and Gimli are getting it on in Aman....Celeborn is still in M-E so he might take another bride.....maybe he got sick of that noldo/teleri old hag Big Laugh Smilie and got himself a nice little sindarian elfBig Smile Smilie
Moderator Smilie Come on AulŽ, you are talking to an eleven year old here. We don't need this kind of speculation. Lighening Smilie
Yea, I think they made him seem stupider in the film, but he was funny in the book too, like the thing with him and Legolas arguing all the time, and his Dwarvish ways were funny. But, yes, the movies made him seem like a comic relief and not a warrior.
Teacher Smilie
Alright sorry Grondy....but I just thought it was a funny thing to bring upBig Smile Smilie
clumsy, stupid, idoitic.......i didnt think he appeared as any of these things. The books allow for some occasional comedy from gimli, other dwarves and the hobbits. almost all the dwarves (from the Hobbit to the Silmarillion) have a partially comic role. Its not that they are being ridiculed, its just that their gruff nature plus short stature in contrast with the tall and eloquent Elves (and to a lesser degree men although not in all cases - i mean look at Butterbur!)
They therefore are the easiest to convert into a comic character. Its sad that hollywood feels the need to do this with a movie (like Jar jar ruining Star wars) but in LOTR's its done well.
Gimli has many occasions where he is portrayed as heroic in the movie. i.e fighting at Helps Deep. the scenes in question here though seem to include;
*stumbling down a hill in the chase. He looks funny cos we're expecting it. After all he is seriously lagging behind and out of breath........due to his STATURE!
*trapped under a warg??? so what!! Aragorn gets dragged along the ground and over a cliff! While ridiculous it doesnt detract from his heroic apparel!
*Obvious jokes such as the "dwarf tossing and the "box" comment in no means detract from his heroic appeal. If the heroes were in a more Dwarf friendly environment maybe the lanky gits would have had to defend themselves against similar comments!
*Neither do his burping or beard pulling he's just a different type of hero to Aragorn, Boromir, Gandalf , Legolas, Frodo, etc He's gruff and in a world of men he's gonna face some obstacles that might appear funny. falling off horses, unable to peer over battlements, not keep up with people twice his height (i did however think it a little unneccesary about the mail coat!)
BUt at the end of the day, who expected the movie to be like the book? People will get to know the real Gimli if they open it and start reading. In the meantime we can enjoy seeing the exagerated characature of Gimli on the screen.
Man I hadnt laughed as hard in years!!!!
Big Laugh Smilie
Quote:
Moderator Smilie Come on AulŽ, you are talking to an eleven year old here. We don't need this kind of speculation. Lighening Smilie


Grondy, really, it`s fine.

Back to topic!

I`m not sure whether he is or isn`t.

[Edited on 9/4/2003 by Sheryl]

[Edited on 13/4/2003 by Sheryl]
Quote:
I bet you`re thinking, naughty eleven year old! Well, I act like a 15 year old
And why is that might I ask? Eleven year olds are supposed to act like eleven year olds, leaving the 15 year olds to act like 15 year olds. Media exposure by younger children to material that is classified for 15's and older has much to answer for. Children are suppossed to be children, not adults, and that is both sad and disturbing when you consider the number of underage pregnancies and runaway children in the UK now days.

You may feel you are mature enough to act like a 15 year old Sheryl, but you are not the only young person who uses this site. Unlike many places on the web where it isn't safe for 15 or even 35 year olds to browse, Planet Tolkien is, and will remain, a family site, where it is safe for young children like yourself to visit.
And since this is a family site, there is no need for any concern. May I suggest that we forget these issues and leave each to his/her own when it comes to such things. Smile Smilie
Okay, that`s fine with me. Smile Smilie
I darn gone it hope not!!! He is a cool warrior!
Dwarves are funny, gruff characters, but they are also formidable, and have their serious side. I felt that in the first half of TTT, Gimli did indeed get shortchanged and treated as mere comic relief, enough that it somewhat overshadowed his return to competence in the Helm's Deep battle.

The main problem I had is the pratfalls. Yes, Gimli can be hilarious. But he's not incompetent! In particular, we have him falling over, tumbling head over heels after the Two Much More Competent Hunters, muttering about breathing and being dangerous "over short distances", belching at inappropriate moments, and, most of all, in the Warg battle, having one thing after another dropping on him, and his buddies saving him. It's hard to tell he snapped the neck of the orc that climbed on the pile; mostly he just lies there floundering through that battle. When Aragorn falls off the cliff, it's not a bit funny, it's nailbiting. And yes, Aragorn gets smooched by a horse later-- which I found a bit odd-- but in general, he's lying there battered, beaten to a pulp, and in Hero Mode, so it's not quite the same.

I felt the FOTR Gimli was a little more complex. He can be saying, "no one tosses a dwarf!" (which again is funny, but hilights the fact that he's a tough customer), or mourning a relative with honest emotion, or tackling a troll, or insulting an elf, or speaking eloquently on the subject of Galadriel (A bit moreso in the book than films), or soberly observing Boromir's death and lamenting the Fellowship's failure, "then it has all been in vain."

That's a lot more than just falling off horses.

In the Helm's Deep battle, I thought, Gimli was back to being a more multi-layered, formidable Gimli. "I won't have any pointy-ear outscoring me!" or leaping to Aragorn's rescue or kicking butt and taking names on the causeway. At such times, his "did they hit anything?" or "don't tell the elf!" are funny but don't diminish his character.

Part of the problem is the contrast between him and Superelf, who has amusing lines ("Shall I get you a box?") but is never caught offguard. Part of the problem is that almost all the Legolas/Gimli friendship moments have been axed, so the banter between them in Helm's Deep is almost the first we see of it. And part of the problem, I maintain, is blocking: because of the height differences, we've wound up with a heckuva lot more meaningful interaction between Aragorn and Legolas than in the books, as well as teasing ("you're late"), and it's much harder to have serious moments between folks of such different height. It can be done: consider Gandalf's conversations with Frodo, or Aragorn's poignant, "I would have followed you into the very fires of Mordor", but on the whole, you seldom get serious moments between the shorter characters and the tall ones.

Also, I believe, the age difference between the younger actors on the team and Gimli's actor came into play. They don't "bond" at the same level. And John Rhys-Davies (is that his name? ack! senility!) definitely thinks of dwarves as funny, humorous, meant to be played for laughs, if you check out the interview with him. Orlando is set on Legolas being an "assassin", which is a more serious interpretation of Tolkien's lighthearted singer. We've got one of them less funny, the other more.

It could be fixed in ROTK, but I definitely feel that Gimli descended a little too far into Laurel and Hardy mode during parts of TTT.


It cannot be fixed in RoTK Sepdet....unless they pull down Legolas to that kind of humiliation and let Gimli be the one to make the quick remarks.....and I know that PJ is a %#&§`!"( and he will not let that happen......:veryangry:
ya i think that the only reason that they made Gimmlie so funny was to please the people seeing the movie. Its the same with the Arwen and Aragorn thing because in the book they barely even mentioned her and they had to add that in the movie for a bit of romance because people like that. I do think that those parts were ridiculous with Gimmlie, but I think that some people wouldn't have liked it w/o humor.
Gimli's clumzyness and misplaced remarks take a lot of the epic feeling of the movies (what epic feeling?) away, though. Maybe PJ thinks that ppl can't stay concentrated for 3 hours or more so he has to make ppl laugh for a moment to keep them awake.
I think Gimli's additude in the movies was fine,he was funny but not stupid.Don't we all love a little comic relief? I was getting quite bored during some parts of the movies but when I saw Gimli step into it all(which didn't happen enough)I got alert and intrested again. Big Smile Smilie