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Thread: Does anyone think the same or only me?

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Two Towers > Does anyone think the same or only me?   [1] [2] >>
I didn´t noticed that Legolas was wiser in TTT but then I wasn´t looking for that so it could be.
I agree with you that there was to much of Aragorn, like he was the main character. It should be Frodo.
I don't think Aragorn was acting like the main character. All through TTT it showed Frodo one time or another as our hobbit hero. Though we did see a lot of Aragorn in the movie,don't you think it's neccesary to built the imagination in the storyline up for the next installment of LoTR when Aragorn becames King?.
It wasn't until TTT that Aragorn really showed himself as a true potentional King.

Now as for Legolas, Hasn't anyone realised that EVERYONE is at least a little wiser in TTT then FOTR?.
In the beginning no one knew or trusted anyone else in the fellowship but as time went by they gained life long friendships and gained wisdom on the way.
I just noticed that Legolas was more involved in TTT.
As for Aragorn, I think he was involved a bit too much in TTT than was necessary. There wasn`t as much as Frodo in TTT as I would have expected. I mean, there was quite a bit of him in the beginning but not as much in the middle and end. If someone hadn`t seen FOTR, or they hadn`t found out or knew anything about FOTR, I think they would have thought the main character in TTT would be Aragorn. If not, then who is the king?

I think PJ drew attention to Aragorn by adding extra scenes that include him. The scene where he falls off the cliff, that wasn`t in the book, well that was what I was told.

The film ROTK, is the king Aragorn? If he is, then where does he return from and where does he go back to?

Can you answer my questions?
Can you help me out?
PLEASE..........

[Edited on 26/1/2003 by Sheryl]
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As for Aragorn, I think he was involved a bit too much in TTT than was necessary. There wasn`t as much as Frodo in TTT as I would have expected. If someone hadn`t seen FOTR, or they hadn`t found out or knew anything about FOTR, I think they would have thought the main character in TTT would be Aragorn.
In the book TTT the story is split in thirds: Frod and Sams' doings, Merry and Pippins', and Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas'.

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The film ROTK, is the king Aragorn? If he is, then where does he return from and where does he go back to?
In the book LotR, Gondor has been without a king for hundreds if not thousands of years, and when Aragorn accepts the crown, he brings the return of the kingship back to the land.
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I agree with you that there was to much of Aragorn, like he was the main character. It should be Frodo.


The great thing about the Lotr trilogy is that there is no clearly defined main character. it skips about between the entire fellowship, though of course it has to be said that it is mainly the tale of Aragorn and Frodo. But there is such a huge supporting cast that it doesn't work like a traditional book/movie with one guy doing all the cool stuff, and everyone else just saying, OOOOH, he must be the main protagonist, because otherwise it would be a Schwarzenegger/Mel Gibson/Van Damme/any other self-publicising no talent hack movie. Hope this helps you understand a little better.If not, then I may go back to my old catchphrase, "Read the Book!" Wink Smilie (I know you're going to anyway, don't worry, i'm a nice skwerl really)
Mellie pets the nice Skwerl. I like your description of the LOTR
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The great thing about the Lotr trilogy is that there is no clearly defined main character. it skips about between the entire fellowship, though of course it has to be said that it is mainly the tale of Aragorn and Frodo. But there is such a huge supporting cast that it doesn't work like a traditional book/movie with one guy doing all the cool stuff,
However I have to agrree that reading the book is the best advice one can give. There is so much more in the books than in the movies. The books are not just amazing they are magical, and transport you to another world where you never want to leave.
Well Legolas doesn't look very 'wise' to me in the movies...

He looks like he's just graduated from Elf-high school i must say.
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I think PJ drew attention to Aragorn by adding extra scenes that include him. The scene where he falls off the cliff, that wasn`t in the book, well that was what I was told.


I thought you were reading the book at the moment Sheryl. Go and read it now before you get swamped down in homework for your sat's (this is presuming you live in the UK). It's better than that monstrosity of the film. I bet your school has a copy in it's library, so you don't even have the excuse of going in to your local town.
As for leogolas being wiser, No I think he was a unrealistic horse stunt pulling git.
I don`t think my school has a copy of LOTR trilogy??? I`ve got the book in my room, but I can`t read it because I`ve got a chapter of TH to read and I`ll be finished! I can`t read TH tonight though because, I`ve left it at school! I`m really sad I have though because I really wanted to get it finished tonight!!

We`ve already got homework for the SAT`s. We get it all the time since September. Epecially from, Miss Harrow, my English teacher!

How can you think that LEGOLAS doesn`t get wiser in TTT! It was blaten because he was more involved in TTT. He`s such a hunk in my books! Tongue Smilie Wink Smilie
Legolas wiser? not that I particularly noticed. What I did notice was his increasing devotion to Aragorn. (and NO, please don't anyone start any threads about their sexuality! :shakeheadSmile Smilie

I didn't really like the "You're late" and "You look terrible" bits. Not very Tolkien.

But as for Aragorn: "All who come to know him, come to love him, after their fashion." and Legolas seems to be no exception.
It seems to me that Legolas and Gimli are on a holiday in the movies : always laughing, fooling around, exchanging jokes (like the 'u could have picked a better spot' at Helm's Deep).

But hey, why not?? Let us just have fun while we're saving Middle-Earth from the evil forces of Sauron : do a little skating at Helm's Deep, horse-acrobatics -the same i saw in the Cirque du Soleil last sumer-, shooting 50 Orcs dead with one arrow, ...

Yeah, Legolas is definitely very wise = he's like a young boy who is allowed from his daddie to go play with his mates. Smoke Smilie
Yeah, they did kind of make Gimli a little dumb.
It sounds like virumor is a purist like me. Big Smile Smilie
What`s a purist?
Virumor, I can sort of agree with you about the having fun bit, but I don`t think I can agree with you about Legolas and Gimli being on a holiday, they`re just trying to liven things up a bit. Cool Smilie They`re being cool about it, while keeping their emotions inside as well at the same time.
Imagine if you was about to go into battle with 10,000 Urak Hai. I think you would try to keep everyone`s spirit up, instead of crying and shouting out, "I want my mummy!" Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie
Don`t you think?

[Edited on 28/1/2003 by Sheryl]
I don't see how Legolas' or Gimli's mummy would be able to help at the battle of Helm's Deep, actually.

Anyway, i meant that the humour in the movies was driven a bit too far : it just ruined all the 'drama' (if u can speak of drama in the movies).

Smoke Smilie
A purist is someone like me, who dispises the film and the evil director PJ, for completly changing the story of the book to boost his ego and to dupe everyone for profit!
I don't mind a little humor but come on! Gimli is not a clod! Falling off horses and putting on giant shirts of mail!
That was funny though and it made the film more funny!
There was hardly any humour in FOTR and if there was, I must be blind!!
I enjoyed TTT and I`m in no way a purist. Big Laugh Smilie
The giant shirts of mail was funny I thought. It did make him look like a dope and I always thought that Dwarves would be sort of dopes but not totally. 50/50? That`s what I think. Gimli falling off of horses? I don`t remember that part.
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A purist is someone like me, who dispises the film and the evil director PJ, for completly changing the story of the book to boost his ego and to dupe everyone for profit!
I guess I'm a purist too then. I just try to ignore what goes on in the films.
I didn't find anything funny... except Haldir's death. That was just hilarious according to me.

Also Aragorn getting kissed by a horse and then Arwen taking the horse's place ?? (or was it vice versa)
Yeah, very very funny. Smoke Smilie
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Gimli falling off of horses? I don`t remember that part.


It was when he was talking with Eowyn on the way to helms deep
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There was hardly any humour in FOTR and if there was, I must be blind!!


D'you want to borrow my labrador and white stick? I thought it was a laugh a minute.
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Also Aragorn getting kissed by a horse and then Arwen taking the horse's place ?? (or was it vice versa)


Yes she does have rather a large gob! Big Laugh Smilie
I thought that in TTT the characters of Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn were all brought out more. I like Legolas a lot in the book, the way he likes nature. In the movie it seemed to me that they just made him into like a macho man...I also thought the parts with Legolas and Gimli in the second movie were too modern. But then I am a purist too... Wink Smilie
And Piter out of the Dune miniseries
Piter de Vries? yeah that was him allright i noticed that too
Well I guess there is something about Aragorn which makes him the leader after gandalf died in FOTR but as for Frodo and Sam they turned out to be quite boring in TTT I wonder why?
Gandalf didn't die, Elda, but I won't ruin it for you if you don't know what happens. Die is the last thing Gandalf will do (subtle joke). Wink Smilie
Was Brad Dourif Piter in the miniseries as well as the Lynch movie then?

Oh, and if you thought Sam and Frodo were dull in the movie, you should check out how supremely uninteresting they are in the book.
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They walked a bit, then they rested, later that day they walked ona little more, then they rested again.
"Oh I don't like that Gollum master Frodo, not one bit." Said Sam.
"Oh Smeagol's alright Sam, you just don't understand him" Frodo replied with an otherworldly smuggittyness about him.
They walked a bit, then they rested, later that day they walked ona little more, then they rested again.
"Oh I don't like that Gollum master Frodo, not one bit." Said Sam.
"Oh Smeagol's alright Sam, you just don't understand him" Frodo replied with an otherworldly smuggittyness about him.
They walked a bit, then they rested, later that day they walked ona little more, then they rested again.
"Oh I don't like that Gollum master Frodo, not one bit." Said Sam.
"Oh Smeagol's alright Sam, you just don't understand him" Frodo replied with an otherworldly smuggittyness about him.

and so on, and so on, and so on.... (okay, I made that up, but it's not far off)
Ah there your favourite characters really skweryl!
I thought Sam and Frodo were okay, as was Aragorn, but is it only me or do Pippen and Merry even get noticed??!!!!!?????!!!!
I believe that Aragorn is a main character because he should be one of the main characters.....He is going to be the King of Gondor and that means that he should be powerful and understanding about Saurons tactics.....but Frodo is also of great importance AND also Samwise Gamgee who is also a Ring-bearer... He is the one that prevents the orcs from getting the ring when they catch Frodo in Shelobs lair.....You should have mentioned Sam....
Ross, my fav characters are Legolas, Aragorn and Gollum.
LEGOLAS comes first though! I love him!! Wink Smilie Wink Smilie Wink Smilie I was glad that he was standed out of the film more.(More involved.)
My new song, same tune as can`t get you out of my head.
Can`t get Legolas out of my head,
Boy your Elvisness is all I think about,
I just can`t get him out of my head,
Boy he`s cuteness is all I think about!

Like it? Big Laugh Smilie
Cool Cool Smilie !
How can you dissfigure Saint Kylie of Minogue lyrics in such a way, Oh alright I'll let you off. Tongue Smilie
I think Legolas looked wiser because Gimli got a lot dumber. I'm glad other people were disappointed by Gimli's "comic turns". Dwarves in Tolkien are no-where near the D&D stereotype that are all over the place, but PJ gave in on that account. I agree that some humour was necessary, but all at the expense of Gimli. I mean, he falls off horses, while Legolas gets to pull of crazy stunts to get on horses...
Do you lke Kylie Monogue? I think she`s okay. But not really good. Smile Smilie
Her stuff from the mid nineties was brilliant when she was alternative, but mainly I just Ogle, abit like you and Orlando Bloom!
Any bloke worth his trousers likes Kylie Minogue. remember her as Charlene in Neighbours? Is it just me or was that set always very cold Wink Smilie
Hrrrhhrhrrhr (sound of Ross drooling into his keyboard)
I`m 11 and Kylie`s smaller than me!! Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie I`m over 5 ft!
By the way, just incase you don`t know, I LUV ORLANDO BLOOM! Did you know I only live an hour away from his house! Big Smile Smilie Wink Smilie I`m gonna go up there some day soon. I can`t wait! Wink Smilie

[Edited on 7/2/2003 by Sheryl]
Take some camoflage and fake ID, you dont want a restraining order at the age of eleven!
Can I ask: What do you mean by restraining order?
If it`s something nasty again, then I don`t wantto hear it. If it`s one of those teasing things, leave me alone. I can`t help that I`m tall. If you know I won`t mind, then tell me. Cool Smilie
I`m not going to stalk him! Only a really really crazy person would do that! Mad Smilie
I`m taking that as an insult, even though I want to think it was a joke.
The closest I`d get to Orli`s house would be walking down his street. I`m not idiotic enough to knock on his door and stalk him and everything else that`s included in the package! That`s just sad!! Big Laugh Smilie Okay??
I`m only 11, as I`ve told you before! I also wouldn`t STAKE OUT poor old Orli`s house.
I mentioned in the fan mail I`m sending him, I`d never bother him, even if I did have the chance. I would ask for an autograph if he was at a premiere, or something else like that.
Do you really think I want to be a stalker when I grow up?!
Do you really think I want to be a stalker now?! I`m going to take some time away from some ppl that don`t seem to like me, or think I`m a stalker! *Sheryl crys* No affence to annyone. Just need a break. K? Wink Smilie
I do hope that this postBody has not affended anyone, if it has, you have all my apologies. Very Sad Smilie Sad Smilie
C ya l8tr! (I`m in a happy mood now that I`ve got it out of my system. Big Smile Smilie Cool Smilie Smile Smilie Wink Smilie Tongue Smilie Smoke Smilie Big Laugh Smilie )
Sheryl, a restraining order is a police order that forbids you to come within a certain distance of somebody, for example, Mr Orlando Bloom. It is a common way of dealing with troublesome stalkers.
I think Ross was having a laugh at your expense, as you may well be tottering dangerously close to stalkerville with your plans to stake out poor old Orli's house.
In my opinion, the emerging of Aragorn as a main character is for a few different and very necessary reasons...and he doesn't detract from anyone really I don't think. He does seem to have an air of postAuthorIDity but as you consider the following situations, remember that Aragorn NEVER forces his way on anyone. He leads humbly, when his abilities necessitate it, and he only takes what postAuthorIDity as his companions give him freely. Furthermore, they have every reason to based on his experience and skill, not just because he is the emerging king. I don't think the other characters in the story would have respected a man who comes out of nowhere and had no skill just because he was a royal descendent, even if he was a man of legend.

When the hobbits reach Bree and find Strider, Gandalf is missing in action, stuck in Isengard but no one knows that...Strider not only is aware of what the Ring is all about but he is a Ranger who knows the countryside, and how to get the hobbits to Rivendell in Gandalf's absence. So he takes them. To me, that is merely an extension of what Strider has been doing all along which is protecting the hobbits. At this point in the story, it is not the whole Shire, only this select bunch of hobbits, and it is not from a distance but he probably sees this as part of his job. Strider was necessary to this part of the story because we can assume that if the hobbits had not run into him and accepted his leadership to Rivendell they wouldn't have gotten to Rivendell. We can debate about why something else didn't happen, such as Legolas finding the hobbits in Bree but that would be pointless because that's not how Tolkien wrote his story.

Then at the Council of Elrond, Strider is revealed as Isildur's heir, the long awaited king come out of hiding...whether Strider is really ready to do this may be in question but everyone finds out and if Aragorn would not have had it that way it only further illustrates that he is not going to rely on his heritage to get these people to listen to him. At this point we should expect that as everyone comes forward to help Frodo, Aragorn would do so as well, and he does. His navigation skill as a Ranger, his healing abilities as a student of the Elves, and leadership abilities as a King will make him valuable. We expect him to pull his weight and he does not disappoint us. Aragorn's involvement in the Fellowship also seems to suggest that when he does take his place as King, he will be on the right side...same as we have said (on other threads) that different races are represented in the Fellowship to indicate that these are not creatures who, as a race, would align themselves with evil.

Then we find the Fellowship on Weathertop, when Aragorn helps fight the Black Riders and helps nurse Frodo after he is stabbed. He isn't stealing glory from anyone, he is doing his thing based on his own particular background and skill, and again, the others defer to his postAuthorIDity in the matter.

Flip a few pages (or fast forward, take your pick because I am NOT going to rant about the movie here, it's exhausting) and we find the Fellowship on the other side of Moria, down one wizard. Who should step forward to navigate and protect them in Gandalf's place? Aragorn. He IS all that...because of what he is worth to the Fellowship, because he is a charismatic leader, postAuthorIDitative in navigation, and because the Fellowship trusts him...and they ARE starting to revere him more as royalty among them.

Another particularly dramatic moment for Aragorn (based on the film at least) is when Boromir dies. I think based on Boromir's character, the only one who would have fit the bill at the hour of his death was Aragorn. He used his last moments NOT to make peace with Frodo after attacking him but to confess his loyalty to Aragorn as his King and to gain forgiveness from his King. That wasn't Aragorn's doing, that was what Boromir needed to do to die peacefully. This seems to foreshadow that if a man of the line of the Stewards of Gondor can accept Aragorn being the long awaited king, then we can expect others to do so as well.

When we get into the Two Towers Aragorn continues to be important because the Fellowship is disbanded and there are different things going on. When Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas decide to go off looking for Merry and Pippen, well, he becomes one of 3, not one of 9. And so naturally he will be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and his skills will be more important in a smaller group, and again, let's remember that his relationships with Gimli and Legolas are only as postAuthorIDitative as they allow them to be. They defer much to his wishes not just because he is a King but because often enough he has the best idea. He soon enough becomes surrounded by kings and soldiers who serve and submit to him not only because he is royalty but because, as he goes along he proves himself, and because they see him serving their own captains and Kings, to whom they are loyal. But Aragorn himself does not lead in the company of Theodin. He serves Theodin and the closest he seems to come to thinking his britches are as big as Theodin's is to speak on behalf his party...being Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf (who has stepped aside at this point to let him) and to discuss matters of battle as One king to another...but I think Aragorn knows that he is nowhere nearly as experienced as Theodin even if he is a living legend.

Eowyn teaches us a lot about Aragorn, too. I went on and on about her in another thread (and got no responses thank you very much!!) but for the purposes of this discussion I can summarize. I don't think Eowyn was in LOVE with Aragorn half as much as she needed to believe that he could restore peace to her people. And maybe we do get the sense that Aragorn could have his pick of the ladies, as any other king would, but this is not her main attraction. Remember she is fully aware of the plight of her people and she is becoming more and more despondent about it. And yet, Aragorn becomes her source of HOPE...and her reason for being even more hopeless than before when she thinks she has lost him to The Paths of the Dead. She trusts and respects his ability as much as his lineage. To her, she sees a prophecy coming true and he is not contradicting that it is possible.

So...since this discussion is more or less about the first two stories, I will say that they do indeed lay the groundwork for the Return of the King. If we hadn't seen Aragorn do all these things in the first two books, how can we expect to believe that he is worthy of the job? And we must remember that, as important as it is, the hobbits mission to get the Ring destroyed is only ONE part of the story. Aragorn is important because after the Third Age is over, marked by the destruction of the Ring and the defeat of Sauron, someone will have to restore Middle Earth to its former glory and it's future potential. The hobbits aren't going to do that. Aragorn himself granted the Shire with fulll trespassing laws at their border so they can be left alone. Aragorn then is the only character in the story who can possibly give us a happily ever after...because he is the only one in the position to (and qualified enough to) do it.

Maybe this topic wouldn't have emerged the way it has if Orlando Bloom had played Aragorn in the movie.
In my opinion the only reason that Legolas is starting to seem so much wiser in TTT is because he is in a smaller group...they need his input more, particularly since they are looking through the woods and tracking the 2 kidnapped hobbits, and fighting orcs along the way. Elf skills would be important in a job like that. It may also be that we are more familiar with his character by the time we read TTT, and because we see a very significant freindship formed by him and Gimli, so we see a different side of Legolas than we did before...growing in wisdom because he is now more open minded.

But the reason I think Legolas is not a more prominent character in the story, which I suspect is part of Sheryl's question, is because this is not a story about elves. They are only regarded as one of the many many people who stood up to Sauron, and rightly so. Indeed this could be considered even more noble than anyone else's involvement because the Elves are on the way OUT and really don't have anything at stake one way or the other...but not noble enough to change the whole focus of the story. LOTR is about the last days of the Third Age, it begins with hobbits and ends with men, as it should.

Believe me Sheryl, I mean no disrespect. I think Orlando Bloom is an amazing hunk o' man too...I even started a thread to say so before I found the drool thread. But I don't think that Orlando Bloom's sex appeal would be an excuse to put him in the movie more than his character should be...they did it with Liv Tyler but we can't expect the boys involved with this movie to do us girls any favors with Legolas?
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I thought Sam and Frodo were okay, as was Aragorn, but is it only me or do Pippen and Merry even get noticed??!!!!!?????!!!!


Well, according to the book, the time when M and P do their thing...is Return of the King. So...we shall see if the movie is anything like the book. I imagine there will be a few departures from the book for this movie, and I will have a whole new set of things to rant about but I have heard that it will be a really fun movie no matter what. Plenty of action what with all the battles etc...and Merry and Pippen have a lot to do with the end of the book.
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He serves Théoden and the closest he seems to come to thinking his britches are as big as Théoden's is to speak on behalf his party...being Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf (who has stepped aside at this point to let him) and to discuss matters of battle as One king to another...but I think Aragorn knows that he is nowhere nearly as experienced as Théoden even if he is a living legend.
While Aragorn, who is really seventeen years older than King Théoden, has actually proven himself in his earlier years, where under the pseudonym of Thorongil, he has served both the fathers of Théoden and Denethor in the capacity of champion and as one of their military advisers. He only left their domains so as not to interfere with the succession when the old rulers were about to die. At least that is my take after reading Appendices A and B to RotK.

Also, when visiting in another jurisdiction, it is considered ill form to throw your weight around at the expense of the current ruler: it tends to tick-off both the ruler and his underlings. The offering of sound advice only when needed is the best council. Lending your sword arm in times of war will provide you the opportunities to reprove your worth as a leader of men. And with high charisma and prowess, you can get there sooner. Teacher Smilie

This probably belongs in the Characters thread. (Are there two spellings of "characters" depending on which side of the Atlantic you live, or have I just been seeing a common mis-spelling which I think is something like "carachters"?)

I am tired and had better quit for the day or Plastic Squirrel will be pointing out that I am again writing gibberish that reads the opposite of my intent. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

Good post, by the way MIM. Happy Elf Smilie
aragorn didn't return from any where but when his father died he was susposed to be king and he didn't want that power and he returned by the thought of that he changed his mind and returned to his rightful place as king

Legata GreenLeaf Princess of Mirkwood
Brightest star in Mirkwood
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