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Thread: On Fairie Story--Tolkien's ideas (and essay) about this

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[quote="Gandalfs Beard":2vnm30xb]The Gnostics were a minority[/quote:2vnm30xb]

Not exactly they weren't.

Once upon a time there were just Christian-types. This was before 328AD (or whenever Constantine the Murderous Bastard Bully Boy arranged the Council of Nicea). The Gnostic Christians only became the Gnostic Christians after Constantine helped create the Catholic Church. I was going to say that he created the "Pagan Christian Church" but that would be a tautology of sorts ("Pagan" and "Christian" being one and the same thing). Maybe the "Universal Pagan/Christian Church?" All gets a bit silly, just thinking about it. ((([i:2vnm30xb]"Thinking"[/i:2vnm30xb] hey?! Mmm.. will get back to that, I Think!)))

SHORT HISTORY LESSON: Christianity was a Pagan offshoot of Judaism - or a Judaized form of Paganism.

DIGRESSION: Funny to say, Judaism is nowhere near as Monotheistic as it is made out to be - and still Pagan in many areas even when Monotheistic... Yep --- the Jews are Pagans too (as are Muslims). I hasten to say, I do not use the word "Pagan" in a derogatory way. The word actually meant Citizen, I think. I use it to refer to any Religious Person. (PLease don't blow me up!)

GNOSTICS AGAIN: All Christians were Seekers of Knowledge - as they are today. For instance, when you go to a Baptist Church, you seek "Baptist" Truth. And when you go to a Methodist Church, you seek "Methodist" Truth. And if you go to a Catholic Church.. well, you get the idea. (Muslims go to a Mosque. Jews to a Temple. Buddhists to a Stupa. Hindus to a Temple etcetera etcetera etcetera).

THE ACTUAL TRUTH: Gnostics have always sought Religious Truth --- but rarely sought Actual Answers. There is Scientific Inquiry (and Method) to satiate the need of those who seek Actual Answers. Religion serves a different need altogether (see my thoughts on "E.I.A" below).

PRETENDING TO THINK: Gnosticism (where lies Religion and Religion's pretty handmaids, Spiritualism, Environmentalism, Feminism, Tolkien Liberalism, that kind of thing) adopt the Emotional Inquiry Approach - or "E.I.A" as I call it.

Glad I could help. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
Wow, a thought-out post from Odo! :shock:

[quote="Odo Banks":3so0g5n4]SHORT HISTORY LESSON: Christianity was a Pagan offshoot of Judaism - or a Judaized form of Paganism.[/quote:3so0g5n4]

Wasn't Christianity as established by Paul of Tarsus just one of many Judaic factions/offshoots that sprung up in the first century C.E. amidst the political and social turmoil of Roman occupation and violence? It was less exclusive and more open to new converts but it still started off quite Jewish, I think.
[quote="Eldorion":bm1e0ryk]Wasn't Christianity as established by Paul of Tarsus just one of many Judaic factions/offshoots that sprung up in the first century C.E. amidst the political and social turmoil of Roman occupation and violence?[/quote:bm1e0ryk]

Darn tootin'!

[quote="Eldorion":bm1e0ryk]It was less exclusive and more open to new converts but it still started off quite Jewish, I think. [/quote:bm1e0ryk]

Is this an example of loose thinking on the Loremaster's part? :ugeek: Less exclusive and more open than who or what? (Joined E.I.A have you, Eldo :?: :?: :?:)
E.I.A.?

This isn't a field that I know about so I'm open to illumination from The Wise. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
I suggest you read my "thought out post" above. I mean [i:2wuudidb]actually[/i:2wuudidb] read it! :ugeek:
Odo, Gnosticism was a Mystery School of thought that also had Judaic and Egyptian movements. Gnostic Christians were around from the beginning of Christian thought. And indeed, the largest Gnostic sect, the Valentinians, was formed in the second century, long before Constantine or his mother were even born.

[b:25b8adz2]GB[/b:25b8adz2]
Christianity came after gnosticism (see small G). They were (and are) all gnostic. Here to help. :ugeek:
True (except that among the early Christians, Christian Gnosticism was a minority), but how do you square that with your previous statement. :? :?

Maybe I misunderstood it.

[b:28whdqyv]GB[/b:28whdqyv]
[quote="Odo Banks":2tfsfrw9]I suggest you read my "thought out post" above. I mean [i:2tfsfrw9]actually[/i:2tfsfrw9] read it! :ugeek:[/quote:2tfsfrw9]

I missed that one part. :oops: I was [i:2tfsfrw9]really[/i:2tfsfrw9] tired last night. :lol:
Then let it be a cautionary tale for you Eldo: E.I.A is particularly virulent at night.

And GB. If not for gnostic sects, Christianity would not exist at all. That's the point I'm making. Read Paul. He's as gnostic as it comes. Look at Romans especially. Makes no sense (overall) but is very poetic and spiritual, and full of the usual airy fairy gnostic claptrap of the Mystery Schools. Around about dot AD (and up to 328 AD approximately), gnosticism was very fashionable. It was like Environmentalism nowadays. :roll: (The young and the intellectually immature do still have their E.I.A. fancies).
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