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GB, most women want their men to be men. It's a simple fact of life for most women. The women who don't want their men to be men want to be men themselves (or just don't like them, full stop). That's my experience.
If you narrow Feminism down to a fair go for all, and accept that promotion on merit is the best arrangement in business and life, then I myself am a Feminist.
Oh yes... and women who tell other women how they should behave in regard to men are usually bitter and twisted and unattractive (inside I mean - one must not judge the looks of others, because that would be wrong).
NB My wife is a professional woman who wears a dress, has doors held open for her, expects me to pull my weight with the kids and around the house, and takes no crap from anyone - but she remains a Lady through and through (except, of course, when the lights go out! ) Traditional male to female courtesies are just another form of intimacy at my house. (See John-Beren and Edith-Luthien for comparisons on this).
Durin may not be around this thread anymore, but I sure want to comment o his interesting statement about Good = Galadriel/Women and Evil = Sauron/Men. And that women are more favored than men are.
Okay, so this is an interesting thought. But I have to disagreements. Durin went all the way to The Big Boss Sauron on the evil side, but on the good side he stopped at Galadriel. He did not touch on the Valar. Sauron is more on a level with the Valar, than he is with the elves. I say that on the good side we have the Valar who are a mix of both genders: male and female. In that case Durin's idea does not work.
Now, the other problem I have with Durin's statement is that he says that, though he has little proof of it, he says Tolkien is in favor of women over men. First, how is that if most of his heroes are men? Second, yes, he does view women very highly and respects them very much, but WHERE does he hint that he favors them over men?
Just my views Looking forward to reviving this good debating thread....all friendly arguing!
By the way, the post that I am replying to is on the bottom of page one
I can't believe anyone actually dug up this old fossil of a thread. I'm just impressed someone bothered to read through it.
Hey, I've have just recently taken it upon myself to pull up some oldies
But what is even better is that I've pulled you out of the closet too. Welcome back!
You'll more likely run into me at Forumshire arguing with Petty Tyrant and Odo these days. But I'm thrilled someone bothered to read this stuff.
my father has always said, with a small tone of resentment in his voice, that women can expect equal treatment with men as soon as they are ready to fight in wars.
Ask him next time, is it OK for women to be victims of the war.
Eowyn had the crucial point in her discussion with Aragorn: we go to war and leave women to burn with the house, and than - after they got killed, enslaved, raped and so on - we refuse them any respect, because they, see, do not "fight in wars".
Tell you what. We are worse than this. We we refuse them any respect even if they DO fight in wars. During the WWII millions of Russian women went volunteers, were enlisted or took part in guerilla movement. They suffered every hardship of war PLUS sexual harassment from their comrades in arms, PLUS enemy atrocities, 'cause Germans treated women soldiers not like prisoners of war but like guerillas. See, they said that no way woman can be a soldier, so any woman taken on the battlefield is a guerilla. Fine chivalry, eh?
I was about 15 when I have red The Unwomanly Face of War by Svetlana Alexievich. Since that, when I hear something like "women can expect equal treatment with men as soon as they are ready to fight in wars", I cannot stand it.
Brego, that was one of the most sensible posts I have yet read on this thread.
Tolkien really was, I think, being chivalrous through his writing. He respected women. And heck yeah, every man should respect women. If you take a look at his various stories, he enjoys a good love story, but in the love stories, the lady is always respected.
That is the way it should be. I like his message.