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Thread: ROTK: Review - SPOILERS

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Well... You guys all know I've been in between. I haven't worshipped the movies but I haven't thought they were complete crap which I'm unable to watch either... So to my conviction of the third movie: LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT!!!!!
I just couldn't stop crying. I was still crying on the subway on the way home. Jeez... I never knew it could have such an effect on me. I was not really excited about it, since I was expecting to become disappointed, which I really wasn't! Ok, some parts are so-so, but it is a very good movie. I've gotta go see it again. tata!
SPOILERS!!!!!





After seeing changes in the first two movies, I was ready for any changes in this one, and to be honest not worried too much when they appeared. The changes were both less frequent and to a lesser degree than I had expected to see. What did surprise me was some of the scenes which had been included even though I was expecting them to be cut.

After seeing Frodo stood before the Nazgul on the walls of Osgiliath in TTT, I was not expecting to see the scene with the witchking at Minas Morgal. When it did occur it was superb.

For some reason I thought the scene in the tower after Frodo had been captured would be cut too, so I was pleased to see it was still there.


Favourite bits
1) Seeing the knights of Gondor ride out to their deaths
2) The Riders of Rohan turning up at Pelenor.
3) Sauron's army turning up at Minas Tirith
4) The artillary duel at the start of the battle
5) Eowyn lobbing the head off the fell beast
6) Shelob stalking Frodo
7) The Fell Beasts picking soldiers off the walls
8) The lighting of the Beacon Towers (I'd never really appreciated before the remoteness of them)

Well, it was just all good.

Disappointments, hopefully to be rectified in the extended DVD....

1) No Mouth of Sauron
2) No stand off between Gandalf and the Witchking
3) Some sort of conclusion to Saruman and Grima
4) The meeting of Faramir and Eowyn in the Houses of Healing

It's a shame not everyone will get the same enjoyment out of this film that I have done. Personally I think it was wonderful.

OK i am not gonna compare with the books. We know that PJ didn't follow the books but only made an adaptation, which means forget every book of JRRT you read before you watch it.rrROTK is in the same league as TTT for me. Good action, but the rest (story, characters) kinda sucked a lot. The books weren't followed : maybe that's the problem. (not that i care) rrBest moments : rr-the face of the Orc warchief. (is that Gothmog?? i think so)rr-the attack and fall of Osgiliath. (all the other action sucked)rr- the Orc warchief with the strangely manufactured face saying 'the time of the Orcs has come' while jamming a spear through Faramir's buddy. rr- the Orc warchief elegantly dodging a boulder, and the boulder landing on the toes of a troll.rr-the Orc warchief refuting an attempt to reconquer Osgiliath.rr-the Orc warchief trying to set up a defense against the army of Rohan. rr- Gorbag being a female Orc.rr- i could hear all the girls faint in the theatre when Legolamb appeared in the end in Minas Tirith at Frodo's bed.rr-Arwen not appearing at the Pelennor fields.rr-a swift, tricky Shelob.rr-the Eagles.rrWorst moments : rr-Saruman???rr-Pippin and the Palantir. Pippin singing. rr-was Shelob really that fast?? is she related to the Harry Potter spider??rr- the Orc warchief claiming that the time of Men is over while there are still Haradrim and Easterlings on Sauron's side and those are men too.rr-Minas Tirith : no high, undestructible walls. Made it easy to bomb it down like in the movie.rr- Elrond bringing Anduril to Aragorn.rr- No paths of the dead, no passing of the grey company. rr- Aragorn dumping Eowyn, and Eowyn doesn't care. And oh yeah, Eowyn doesn't marry Faramir. The Eowyn character in the movie is not developed at all.rr- Eowyn and Merry slaying the Witch-King without falling into a coma. So no houses of Healing.rr-Aragorn's meeting with the King of the Dead rr-army of the dead sweeping the Pelennor fields.rr-Eowyn giving a MŻmak a cut in the foot apparently is enough to take such a huge animal down. She is probably also able to kill a whale with a needle. rr-Legolamb being able to perfectly balance upon a raging and moving MŻmak.rr-Denethor is shown as a suicidal, idiotic, egoistic, stubborn and desperate fool - and the way he jumps off the cliff like a human torch wasn't very cool.rr-because of idiot Denethor, Gandalf has to make Pip light the bacons. (beacons Wink Smilie )rr-Gandalf beating up Denethor (twice) and showing his skills in combat until Pippin has to save his @ss.rr-Gollum tricking Frodo and Frodo dumping Samwise.rr-Samwise not using the Ring. (extended version perhaps?)rr-no Mouth of Sauron and Aragorn nearly crushed by an Olog-Hai.rr-Elrond claiming that 'Arwen is dying' and 'Arwen's faith is bound to the Ring'. Great : Ring destroyed, Arwen dies. Didn't happen though.rr-Aragorn throwing himself on Arwen even before they are married. Or were they married already?? rr-Celeborn at the grey havens. (details, my friends, details)rr-I have the impression that here and there a lot of stuff was taken out. For instance we see Eowyn kill the Witch-King of Angmar and afterwards we don't see her anymore until the end. Same with Faramir : after he's saved by Gandalf : byebye Faramir.rrI am guessing those scenes are only to be showed in the extended. (houses of healing, or whatever)rrI also have the impression that the ending of the movies was cut a lot. One scene we are in Minas Tirith, then the screen goes black and suddenly we're back in the Shire. rHeh, i think PJ cut a lot of in-between-scenes here and put them into an extended.rrWell, that's it. The movie is worth watching for the Orc warchief alone.rrGothmog for president.
I saw the movie the first day and i didn't like it. I thought they had to many changes. Examples- they left out the house of healing, the rangers. How Arwen would die if the ring was not destroyed, how Arwen was going to leave and saw here son. I thought that Eowyn killed the nazgul to easly, i mean it would not just of stood there. Also the orc or whatever he was who called himself Saron was not there and how that troll had but hs foot on arargorn. And how sam did not use the gift from Galadriel to get past those watcher things guarding the place frodo was takin to. Now i could do a list of the differances but no one will want to read it, i guess. So i shall end here of the things left out or other things.
~Irima-Arwen
This afternoon I watched the movie for the second time and agree with Irima-arwen that had those differences been rectified, the movie would have been even better, hopefully they and others will be added to the Extended Edition of the DVD.

About Eowyn dispatching the Nazgul Lord too easily: She should have made her "No man am I" speech just before Merry got his attention with the Blade of Westernesse, at which time, while he was distracted, she should have make her deadly cut., removing his iron crown. However, thrusting her sword through his helmet opening was a satisfactory finish to me, and he died just the way I imagined.

The Nazgul Lord wearing the helmet was better cinematographically than an invisible head wearing and Iron Crown and looking out through two red eyes would have been. Had it taken place at night or indoors, the invisible head might have worked, but not out of doors where the background was too varied to easily see his eyes.
I have finally seen it myself now. Was pleasently surpriced, as I expected the worst after TTT.

Ok, I liked
1)More true to the book. Caracters were familiar at last.
2)Pippin and the palantir. It wasn't cut out!
3)Elrond finally becomes himself and likes Aragorn asd acts the way he is suppose too.
4)No Xenarwen, and she came with the banner. Eowyn got all the glory, as it should be!! Big Smile Smilie
5)When everybody bows for the hobbits. Awww....
6)Sam scaring the orcs with his shadow.
7)The lighting of the Beacon Towers.
8)Battles were cool, but enough of the cavalry arriving with the sunrise on their backs. We know they are the good guys.
9)The Eagles
10)The dark haired smiths, easy to pretend they were Elladan and Elrohir. Wink Smilie

Not so pleased with
1) Shelob too small
2)Sam not wearing the Ring while saving Frodo.
3)Sam reluctant to give back Ring, he didn't want to keep it in the book, or have I just forgotten?
4)The oliphants and giant-rhinos (Where did they come from??). Just too big, looked like pre-pre-pre mammoths. Made ME seem too far away in time. I like to think it was not so long ago.
5)Denetor the human torch, he could at least smash an orc when he landed..
6)No Eowyn + Faramir = true. But they stood together and looked happy. Maybe in the extended.
7)No dealing with Saruman. "Nah, we'll just leave him there"
8)Sam not leaving to Valinor later on. Really breaks with what Sam said when Frodo "dies". "Don't go where I can't follow."
9)Shire-Hobbits seems unaware of what the four of them have done. The scourning should have been there.
10)No Arwen dying alone, even if we saw that in TTT.

Hated:
Sauron the lighthouse!! Aaaaaargh!!! I'm insulted on his behalf!! Shocked Smilie Exploding Head Smilie

Ok, that is what I remember right now. I didn't cry btw. I cried when I read the book though. Wink Smilie
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3)Sam reluctant to give back Ring, he didn't want to keep it in the book, or have I just forgotten

Weeell. Sam DID have a little "thinking session" about being "Samvise the King of Hobbiton" (or something like that, can't remember the exact words), but that was before he saved Frodo from the tower (when he was all alone). But he changed his mind quite fast and said to himself to forget such thoughts and try to go save Frodo instead of standing there dreaming.

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9)Shire-Hobbits seems unaware of what the four of them have done. The scourning should have been there

Agreed! I also thought they should have gotten the recognition they deserved when returning home, that was kinda one of the points in the book that they had really changed and became great leaders among the hobbits later in life. (Sam being mayor, Pippin the Took-leader etc) Sad they didn't put any of that in. (but then again lots of things were sad about that movie.... Very Mad Smilie )
Val said:

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Aragorn throwing himself on Arwen even before they are married.


Oi! I thought discussion of sex was banned! But before it is....

One of the most noteable things about Tolkien's writing is the absence of sex of any kind. Even the nasty bits are skipped over. And ME seems to have an infertility problem.

As far as Aragorn is concerned - if he can go as long as that without jumping someone it's a first among men! Sorry guys - cheap laugh.

I personally think that Eowyn was, in the book, a far better character than Arwen but she deserves Faramir not Aragorn. She'll be happier with him. Awwwwwwwwww......

I was sad that there was nothing much about Faramir and Eowyn, HoH, walk in the garden etc but I was sad that Faramir's character wasn't quite as in the book. He was always one of my favourites in the book. But in the film it was good. Stuff had to go, stuff had to be changed and it worked fantastically as a film. I never cared too much for Boromir in the book and I am not a Sean Bean fan but Boromir in the film was magic and that death scene.....!!!!!! I forgave PJ there and then for any changes he made.

And yes, I cried all the way through. Mind you, I cry when I read any of Tolkien's books. And the music makes me cry.


Amarie said:

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)Pippin and the palantir. It wasn't cut out!


I can't remember whether it was thrown out of the window in TTT by Grima. If it was then it is probably just the timing that was wrong - in the book Gandalf et al were there when it was thrown out, not just Pippin picking it up some time after it had been thrown.

I have found a certain blurring of incidents between book and film; sometimes I'm not sure if it really happened or not in the book.

Can't wait to be able to watch all 3 films back to back!
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Val said:

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Aragorn throwing himself on Arwen even before they are married.



I don't recall saying that, Vee. More like something Vir would have said. D@mn, we're just getting too many V's around here. Wink Smilie
You are right! I am so sorry. Too many Vs! I have the same trouble with elves names all beginning with C or G.....

Apologies. The quote should have been attributed to Virumor.
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I have found a certain blurring of incidents between book and film; sometimes I'm not sure if it really happened or not in the book.
That's why it is good that we have our loyal PJ detracters, because it would be a sad day were PJ's to become the story of record. We should all strive that that never happen. Jumping Flame Smilie
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I have found a certain blurring of incidents between book and film; sometimes I'm not sure if it really happened or not in the book.


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That's why it is good that we have our loyal PJ detracters, because it would be a sad day were PJ's to become the story of record. We should all strive that that never happen.


Agreed Grondy! This has been one of my major concerns about the films all along, and I have witnessed the lines being blurred everywhere over the last two years. Itís obviously okay to like the films, but itís absolutely critical to remember that the films, and the books are two entirely different things. Iím always quick to correct people when I hear them confusing something that happened in the films for something that happened in the books, and I always try to tell as many people as I can that havenít read the books about what actually happens in the books, and whatís made up in the films. All of us who truly love the books should strive to do our part in educating people as best as we can about the Tolkien truths.

PJ rightfully deserves praise (as he is about to receive the Modern Master award here in my home town of Santa Barbara tonight about a 100 yards away from my apartment) for making what I now consider to be the greatest motion picture trilogy of all time, but let no one ever forget that the real praise forever belongs to JRRT, because without his masterpiece there is nothing.
Elf Smilie
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but let no one ever forget that the real praise forever belongs to JRRT, because without his masterpiece there is nothing.
Hear! Hear!

So lets hear it for J.R.R. Tolkien:

Hip! Hip!
Hooray!
Hip! Hip! ...
Elfstone said:
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Iím always quick to correct people when I hear them confusing something that happened in the films for something that happened in the books, and I always try to tell as many people as I can that havenít read the books about what actually happens in the books, and whatís made up in the films. All of us who truly love the books should strive to do our part in educating people as best as we can about the Tolkien truths.


I have just had a friend to stay for the weekend who read the books some years ago and has seen two of the films. He was commenting on certain bits being confusing so we spent a lot of time looking up book references. It was fascinating. A lot of the time it was bits from other people or other situations being replaced. Sometimes it worked in the film - I know that one of the best scenes I found in TTT was Wormtongue's speech (originally Gandalf's) to Eowyn. But it is a lovely speech in the book and very moving. I found it just as moving in the film. It is important to keep the film and books separate but if you can do that then the films can be enjoyed as films made for entertainment. I am distraught over the treatment of Faramir but love the elves at Helm's Deep in the film. It worked for me. But when I read the book that works in the book. Boromor's death is another scene I think is fantastic in the film yet it is only given a few lines in TFOTR. It works as it is in the book because there is so much more going on around. The film is more focused. Am I making any sense?



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Am I making any sense?


Yeah Vee, I get your drift. Elf Winking Smilie
And nobody has mentioned the one real laugh out loud moment, right where it shouldn't be.
I was sat there all misty eyed having seen Eowyn do the "I am no woman" line, which I loved seeing. And then, when you get back to the scene later, they nick a line from Return of the Jedi, no really...
"I tried to save you"
"You already have"
heard it before somewhere? Darth Vader anybody? Laughed myself stupid at that I did.
Cool as hell movie though, them Nazgul and fell-beasts really made it for me, soon as the siege of Minas Tirith began i was grinning like a twit til it ended.
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I was sat there all misty eyed having seen Eowyn do the "I am no woman" line, which I loved seeing.

"I am no woman...?!?" Ha Ha Ha Smilie Silly mistake I'm sure...quite unintentional....

But I agree that the Nazguls on Fell Beasts were way cool...creating fear and madness to people everywhere!
Vee said :

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was sad that there was nothing much about Faramir and Eowyn, HoH, walk in the garden etc but I was sad that Faramir's character wasn't quite as in the book. He was always one of my favourites in the book

Well in the book, Faramir and Eowyn kissed i believe (no, i am sure). So, there happened at least something.

He kissed her on the forehead while they were standing looking East. I think. In the book. No snogging in the film though. Or did I miss something?
You did miss something.

i saw ROTK last night, and though it's been a year or so since my last read, i'm glad i've seen it. I realise there are many critisisms of the film over the book, but some of the images in the film were just way beyond what i created when i read them. Notably the balrog; that was cool since i'd always had difficulty visualising something both fire and shadow.... also when the witch-king gets it in the face and his helmet collapses in on itself like like one of those time-lapse videos of a rose opening, only in reverse! Super Wow Smilie
I've gotta admit that i wasn't as touched by the film as i was by the book, but next time i read it I know im gonna enjoy it so much, as I'll not only have my original imaginings, but also the enhanced ideas given to mt by PJ and everyone who contributed to the filmies. Tongue Smilie i cant wait