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Thread: Wherefore art thou Imrahil?

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I don't know if this bothered anyone else, but there was no IMRAHIL!!!! Or Dol Amroth for that matter... To make a long story short:
I saw the first movie, became a LOTR fanatic, but couldn't check out the book from the library because everyone else was too. Content that I knew enough from the movie ( how wrong I was...) I read the second and the third before the third movie came out. As soon as I read about Imrahil, I was facinated by him. I loved the idea that his people descended from elves and that he was such a noble prince to come to Gondor's aid. Even though little is actually known about Imrahil, I really hoped they would keep him in and figured " He's an ally of Gondor. OF COURSE he'll be in the movie." Oh the horror when I saw he wasn't!!!!! J'ADORE IMRAHIL!!! (french for: I ADORE IMRAHIL!) How could they take him out? Anyway, for all of you Imrahil fans out there, please RESPOND and help our CAUSE!
Ah fair Imrahil.. yes. My favorite house in the books is that of Dol Amroth... I even have a banner of Dol Amroth hanging in my house. Handmade by a friend of mine.

When I watched Return of the King for the second time in the cinema I watched how Aragorn and his crew rode towards the Black gates and there is one person, holding the Gondorian banner.. It is not Eomer... then my heart jumped... who else could it be then Imrahil!!! It must be him!
Well, I saw the movies before I read the book. I was reading The Hobbit when I saw the third movie. So naturally, it didn't bother me that there was no Imrahil. But one thing DID bother me a little. This is what Gandalf said to Denethor in the movie:

Quote:
As Steward, you are charged with the defence of this city. Where are Gondor's armies?


Now what bothered me was the fact that Gondor had been shown to be so weak and vulnurable. Naturally there was no Imrahil. But, I don't think it has to do with cutting the long story short. Adding Imrahil and his armies to the plot wouldn't have made much difference to the length of the movie I think. I think it had to do more with the "entertainment" factor. For people who haven't read the books, it was something like David against Goliath when Mordor's armies came to attack Gondor. The more the imbalance in power, the tastier it gets to see the so awefully weak "good side" win against all odds.

From another view, I think it gives the Rohirrim the credit of saving Gondor. Because, in the movies, defence of Gondor is totally a lost cause when the Rohirrrim arrive. Oh well, but the Rohirrim seem to have been denied that credit in entirity, because in the end, the dead manage to wipe out the armies in a matter of seconds!!!

P.S. Rhapsody seems to have replied while I was writing this. Oh well, I'm checking out that last part again right now to see how come I didn't notice any such person at the Black Gate....

Aaaaaah yes. There he is. Seems I had noticed the banner, but didn't ever think that it could be Imrahil. Actually, it could well be some other captain or a commander in the armies holding the banner. Well, in India, in historic battles, such important personnel would never hold a banner. Oh well!!
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Floyd writes:
Now what bothered me was the fact that Gondor had been shown to be so weak and vulnurable.


Over the years Gondor has lost many good men in the battles against Orcs, Haradrim and at length Sauron. It adds all so nicely to the Denethor frantically grabbing for some control, with so less men.

From Lord of the Rings, The Council of Elrond: Boromir speaks..

`Believe not that in the land of Gondor the blood of Númenor is spent, nor all its pride and dignity forgotten. By our valour the wild folk of the East are still restrained, and the terror of Morgul kept at bay; and thus alone are peace and freedom maintained in the lands behind us, bulwark of the West. But if the passages of the River should be won, what then?
`Yet that hour, maybe, is not now far away. The Nameless Enemy has arisen again. Smoke rises once more from Orodruin that we call Mount Doom. The power of the Black Land grows and we are hard beset. When the Enemy returned our folk were driven from Ithilien, our fair domain east of the River, though we kept a foothold there and strength of arms. But this very year, in the days of June, sudden war came upon us out of Mordor, and we were swept away. We were outnumbered, for Mordor has allied itself with the Easterlings and the cruel Haradrim; but it was not by numbers that we were defeated. A power was there that we have not felt before.


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Naturally there was no Imrahil. But, I don't think it has to do with cutting the long story short. Adding Imrahil and his armies to the plot wouldn't have made much difference to the length of the movie I think. I think it had to do more with the "entertainment" factor. For people who haven't read the books, it was something like David against Goliath when Mordor's armies came to attack Gondor. The more the imbalance in power, the tastier it gets to see the so awefully weak "good side" win against all odds.


But as you read the book, Imrahil and his knights were very very important. They saved Faramir's life, barely and they saved Eomer from his death as well. Dol Amroth cavalry did play such an important factor at Pellenor that is somehow feels so wrong that they have been axed script wise. Don't get me wrong, I lobe the movie, but I missed Imrahil there.

From Lord of the Rings, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields
Under the south walls of the City the footmen of Gondor now drove against the legions of Morgul that were still gathered there in strength. But the horsemen rode eastward to the succour of Éomer: Húrin the Tall Warden of the Keys, and the Lord of Lossarnach, and Hirluin of the Green Hills, and Prince Imrahil the fair with his knights all about him.
Not too soon came their aid to the Rohirrim; for fortune had turned against Éomer, and his fury had betrayed him. The great wrath of his onset had utterly overthrown the front of his enemies, and great wedges of his Riders had passed clear through the ranks of the Southrons, discomfiting their horsemen and riding their footmen to ruin.


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From another view, I think it gives the Rohirrim the credit of saving Gondor. Because, in the movies, defence of Gondor is totally a lost cause when the Rohirrrim arrive. Oh well, but the Rohirrim seem to have been denied that credit in entirity, because in the end, the dead manage to wipe out the armies in a matter of seconds!!!


But in the book, the dead were never there, they helped defeating the Corsairs of Umbar and then they were released.

This is what actually was going on the fields:
East rode the knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight. South strode Éomer and men fled before his face, and they were caught between the hammer and the anvil. For now men leaped from the ships to the quays of the Harlond and swept north like a storm. There came Legolas, and Gimli wielding his axe, and Halbarad with the standard, and Elladan and Elrohir with stars on their brow, and the dour-handed Dúnedain, Rangers of the North, leading a great valour of the folk of Lebennin and Lamedon and the fiefs of the South. But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Andúril like a new fire kindled, Narsil re-forged as deadly as of old: and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.

You have to forgive me.. Return of the King is my favourite book... and this chapter particular (besides The Steward and the King) is my favourite..
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You have to forgive me.. Return of the King is my favourite book... and this chapter particular (besides The Steward and the King) is my favourite..
I can understand that, because just by the reading of Tolkien's words that you have just written, we can smell the "Glory" of the occasions. Happy Elf Smilie
Rhaps, I was only talking about the movies and not the books. And yes, I missed Imrahil after reading the books, when I watched the movies again. I think this is one of those movies vs books thing again. The two things are totally different media. I love them both for what they are!!
I know Floyd! And I do love them both, the movies and the books. But still, I have this hope that Imrahil might speak. When the Stewards are gone and there is no King, he is the next in line.. And I happened to like the guy. Besides Faramir and Eomer he is an absolute favorite!
Yeah, I miss him too... though I also miss Bombadil, Glorfindel, Gildor... PJ really cut it short! *frowns*
Ah, Imrahil the Fair.

I love reading of Legolas's wonder upon seeing such a person in Gondor.

I agree it was not cool to leave him out of the movies.
He would have slightly complicated the plot, yes, but he would've also made millions of maidens swoon worldwide, which would have been a HUGE plus for the entertainment factor (for this reason also, Glorfindel, Halbarad, and Erebor should have also made it into the movie)

Actually, he was in the movie, though was not introduced, and just stood at the side as one of the captains of gondor. 

This is the best image I could find of him, some may recognise him even though he didn't have much screen time:

http://www.panhistoria.com/Stacks/Novels/Character_Homes/homedirs/1067images/figwit_imrahimprinceofd.jpg

ewwww, he's certainly not going to make many maidens swoon.......

Just everything about Imrahil is noble, exciting, mysterious and romantic. Oh well, perhaps they did not want to show him as he might be prettier than Aragorn or Elrond, or such and it would wreck things. Smile Smilie

Upon reflection, I am so convinced of Imrahil's majesty, goodness, nobleness and dynamic personality-one of genteel thought and delicate manner mixed with might, that I think an entire movie, perhaps a trilogy could be devoted to him alone.

sigh...............are there any backers out there with a couple of hundred millions they are not needing at the moment?

Maybe we could get George Lucas interested...as he finances his own movies....

(I can sense the  stunned silence emanating across the ether.....only joking..honest...haha!!....)

Imrahil was in the movie. He was the blonde man in minas tirith. 

http://images.wikia.com/lotr/images/2/2a/Screen_shot_2010-12-07_at_6.07.33_PM.png Imrahil <--

So was Glorfindel. He was beside the elven banner that was infront of Arwen.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/12658.jpg Glorfindel

So was Glorfindel. He was beside the elven banner that was infront of Arwen.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/12658.jpg Glorfindel"



I'm having a hard time imagining that guy beating a Balrog

I'm not sure...was the Glorfindel who guided the hobbits to Rivendell, was he the same Glorfindel who fought the Balrog in Gondolin?..I seemed to recall he was killed taking down the Balrog ?....

That's very possible, I could easily be mistaken here (my Tolkien lore isn't the best). Regardless of that, that elf doesn't really match Tolkien's description of the Glorfindel that aided the hobbits. But it doesn't really matter, it's a subjective thing I guess Smile Smilie

I'm not sure...was the Glorfindel who guided the hobbits to Rivendell, was he the same Glorfindel who fought the Balrog in Gondolin?..I seemed to recall he was killed taking down the Balrog ?.... 

 

This was a bit of a mystery from 1977 to the late 1980s... but no longer! especially since 1996. Glorfindel of Rivendell is Glorfindel of Gondolin! Huzzah! 

Well before writing The Lord of the Rings Tolkien imagined a form of Elven reincarnation, and as late as the last year of his life he decided that there was only one Glorfindel. 

That Glorfindel had died was not really the problem, but when he died the Exiles were not allowed to return to Aman.

I have mainly seen the blonde man that Glorfindel linked to referred to as "Irolas" (an anagram of a Tolkienian character).  Whatever his name, and none is given in the film, he certainly bears no resemblance to Tolkien's Imrahil.  The film character appears to be a commander in the Tower Guard, not the ruler of a semi-autonomous fiefdom.

For what it's worth, PJ also took a lot of Tolkienian names and assigned them to original characters in the films.  I don't think it makes sense to say that these characters are the same characters as the book ones just because the names are the same when there are usually such marked differences.