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Step right up, step right up! Who among you men can beat Val the Mud King? See Vee the Goddess wrestle Legolaslasslasslass in sticky strawberry jelly with vanilla sauce. Get your revenge on deleted post by jelly wrestling a Council Member of your choice! You only need 5 council approved Tolkien related posts to enter! Step right up! Step right up!
Ha Ha Ha Smilie
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I think Taz has already created a site in which individual members get to have a far larger imput than they would at most sites on the web. The very fact that he has a suggestions section proves that.
Yes. It is a good site. We like it here, don't we? Big Smile Smilie I'm not saying anything bad about this site or about CM's or other members or our beloved webmaster-fraggle. Please don't take what I say as an attack on any of you or this site - it was certainly not intended that way. And hopefully not read that way either.

What started me was the (pretty much universal) wish to have more serious discussions about interesting topics. I felt that the percieved current moderation regime was a hinderance to create and maintain just such discussions. The important word here is percieved. Many of my arguments was countered by Val and Amarie. Which is good. This way we learnt something, which is the reason for discussion in the first place. Big Smile Smilie But although my perception might be flawed, it is that perception that influences me and my actions, not reality.

Now, if sufficiently many members have the same perception then that is a problem. There might not be a real problem with the policies or the execution of these, but as long as people perceive there to be a problem, there is a problem. (I don't know if this perception is widespread, but I know I am not alone in having it)

Reading your replies I got a lot of new information on the workings and thoughts of the Council. Which helped a lot! Big Smile Smilie Maybe it should be a little easier available? Surely everyone benefits from beeing informed on these issues.

I know the CM's and Taz spend a lot of time and effort on this site, and are off course grateful for that. But if you are constantly short, why not "hire" some more? Surely personell costs are not an issue? Tongue Smilie I'll nominate Vee. She is here practically 35 1/2 hour a day anyway. Big Smile Smilie

Wiggle Smilie Wiggle Smilie Wiggle Smilie
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Who among you men can beat Val the Mud King?


It would be more fun if I wrestled him.


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I'll nominate Vee. She is her practically 35 1/2 hour a day anyway.


Hey, I am only here for 30 hours a day!

You should think of taz's sanity before you suggest things like that, my dear RevGrevMcShev. He's already heard enough ideas from me....... wanna hear one of the latest (although the idea itself may not be original)....?

Mugs for Sale! With the PT logo and maybe some art work and things like...

A little fraggle with the words Fraggles Rock or Taz Mania or Talking Tolkien.....
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A little fraggle with the words Fraggles Rock or Taz Mania or Talking Tolkien..


Hehehe! I like it! Taz Mania. *sniggers* A must for ozzies! Big Smile Smilie The idea is, as you said, not new. Some work was done on the artwork for a PT merchandize range. Look at Ama's site, she made some! Me thinks mugs are more sellable than T-shits and sweaters. Easier to pick the right size for one. Though transport probably becomes more of a challenge.. PT mug-puzzles?

Fraggle rock! *remembers* *starts rocking* Do do dodo dididi do.... Wiggle Smilie Wiggle Smilie
Mugs, mouse mats, bookmarks..... maybe linked to other sites to sell and even eBay as long as the design is Tolkienesque enough. No reason why sales should be limited to members of this site.
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When someone instead of attacking the other parts arguments start attacking his/hers person, or otherwise ruins the constructive mood of the discussion, the culprit should in no uncertain terms be told to cool down or get lost

I don't believe in the heavy handed approach as I think it only adds fuel to the fire and it becomes a lose/lose situation. But Amarie and Val have pretty much explained the inner workings of things.
I do apologize for not unlocking the thread sooner. Being over 40, my memory just ain't what it used to me. Smile Smilie
As far as the games go, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Council did discuss it a few months ago (as mentioned) and the decision was to keep the status quo but to try to enourage some more "Tolkien" discussions. So what if there are threads already on a topic. Everyday, new members are added to our site and they have fresh perspectives to add. When I provide a link, the intention is not to close the new thread but to allow everyone to see what has been shared already, if they chose to read it all (200 posts can be a bit daunting)
When there is something suggested that required technicial skills, I tend to leave that in Taz's ballpark, as I have no idea how to program or how much bandwidth is required. Because of that, I am hesitant to add my opinion to the suggestions as I fear someone may think that,since I am a Council Member and I like the idea that it has a better chance of materializing, or if it doesn't that I don't support new ideas (not sure if I expressed that clearly). I can speak for myself but not for council and not for Taz.
I am afraid that I have not been very dutiful these past few weeks in reading posts and giving members my time and attention that they deserve. I won't bother to go through my long list of excuses, but I will make more effort. Smile Smilie
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As far as the games go, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.


Perhaps the thousands of middle pages can be deleted?

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I can speak for myself but not for council and not for Taz.


"The views expressed above are the view of Rednell and not those of the Council, nor of Taz" after every non Council post?

I'd hate to think you weren't joining in the discussions because of that. Your personal view is as valid and as wanted as much as your Council view.
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"The views expressed above are the view of Rednell and not those of the Council, nor of Taz" after every non Council post?

Now a disclaimer never occurred to me. Brilliant! Big Smile Smilie
Yeah, but you need to put it underneath your post.
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I know the CM's and Taz spend a lot of time and effort on this site, and are off course grateful for that. But if you are constantly short, why not "hire" some more?


Precisely what we did a few weeks back, Grev, when we asked Amarie and Elfstone to join our ranks. Under normal circumstances we have no problem keeping abreast things, unfortunately over the past few weeks I have hit a busy time of the year survey and enforcement wise, Grondy has been ill, Elfstone has been moving house, Amarie has been doing exams, Rednell is busy with coursework etc.

Having more Council Members would not really ease the situation (actually I don't think there is a situation as the Council do manage to keep abreast most of what is in our power to oversee). Anything technical that needs doing all falls on Taz, so having more Council Members would actually only worsen his workload (as it is us who keep going to him with requests for editting tools etc).

Also, Taz really does need to feel he knows a member before he can invite them to join the Council. We do afterall have the ability to create chaos arround the site if we accidently or deliberately clicked the wrong button. I think the only way we could really improve on getting things done faster, is if we all turned up on a regular basis to cook Taz's dinner for him and do his cleaning, thus freeing up more of his precious time. Maybe then we should chain him to his PC desk, and allow him no personal life Super Scared Smilie

Disclaimer:- This suggestion is in no way the view of Taz, the Council, or myself. If Taz is found tied to his PC, it is by some strange personal desire to be so and nothing to do with me. Very Big Grin Smilie
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I think the only way we could really improve on getting things done faster, is if we all turned up on a regular basis to cook Taz's dinner for him and do his cleaning, thus freeing up more of his precious time.


Hmmm.... cooking - no, cleaning - no but I could wash his boxers and pour his beer.

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Maybe then we should chain him to his PC desk,


Now that I can do!
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Disclaimer:- This suggestion is in no way the view of Taz, the Council, or myself. If Taz is found tied to his PC, it is by some strange personal desire to be so and nothing to do with me. Very Big Grin Smilie

And should all them members suddenly recive e-mails saying "Help! I am being chained to the computer by some crazy people. My address is..." etc etc, it only means he is confused and thinks it is April-fools day and the sos-background on the site is just there cause it looks pretty. Honest. Angel Smilie

Actually, I think we, the Council and all who wants to keep Taz sane and healthy, need to keep Vee as far away from Taz and his boxers as we can. Ha Ha Ha Smilie Wink Smilie

Ahhh the PT-shop... We tried to have a art work competition where the winner picture would be put on mugs and t-shirts and caps and all sort of things. I was very keen on the idea and tried to encourage, beg and force people to send in, but noone did except me. And then nothing happend so... Here is the picture btw, the second one. Amas website

Maybe a new art competition could be interesting? I guess I can't join as I am a council memeber now, but I know a lot of the members likes to draw.
There has been great discussion going on the last few pages and i have enjoyed reading them.

This is my view...

(1) I think that many of the everyday threads we go to have become boring over the months. I think that many of us (myself too) have posted out of habit in threads that ONCE were of intrest to us. I think that mnay of the Tolkien topics have grown old and people are not interested on visiting them.

(2) I believe that many of the treads are lifeless because they are created because there is nothing else to do. I agree with the ban on politics, religion, etc, but I think that those topics hold much of the fire and life that we live on. Those topics show you what kind of person you are to other members more than any other topics. And with them gone people search for some other topic that will bring life into the discussion. (I am not calling for the political topics return, I am giving an opnion of why some threads are dull so please don't start explaining to me why they are gone.)

(3) I am not blaming any person here, we are all the same. I just think that as I look at the latest threads at the right of the screen, Hello, I'm New!, Hows the weather in your neck of the woods.
that we need more fruitful topics that draw in more discussion.
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Ahhh the PT-shop... We tried to have a art work competition where the winner picture would be put on mugs and t-shirts and caps and all sort of things. I was very keen on the idea and tried to encourage, beg and force people to send in, but noone did except me. And then nothing happend so... Here is the picture btw, the second one. Amas website


I clicked on your link but was directed to the Message Board. ???

I have several observations on the art competition idea.

It applies only to those members confident enough and good enough to submit entries. How many people here are that confident? So, we are posibly looking at a very small number of entries. If the prize is for the best entry to be used on merchandise you could be faced with a completely unsaleable item. You cannot guarantee that even a well drawn, artistic entry would be suitable for mechandising and you cannot guarantee that you would receive any well drawn, artistic entries.

Then, if the finished item is unsaleable, how would the winner feel seeing their work so scorned?

OK, that's a worse-case scenario.

If you are going to offer something for sale it must be of marketable quality because people will usually buy something because they want and like it rather than out of guilt or a sense of duty.

My advice? Have an art competition but do not offer to use the winning entry on merchandise. Use professional artists who know what they are doing. This is merchandising, advertising and PR and it cannot be done without expertise. (However, if the timing is right and the winning entry is fantastic then approach the artist and suggest it.)

Also - if there is any chance of a PT shop then do it soon - the Christmas Rush starts soon..... sell stuff that is useful for presents, stocking fillers etc and push the Christmas thing. Not long before Christmas, of course, comes the release of the EEDVD.... Get marketing while Tolkien is still fresh.

Apologies if this sounds all a little too commercial but you can't make an omlette without breaking eggs.



AmariŽ:
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Maybe a new art competition could be interesting? I guess I can't join as I am a council memeber now, but I know a lot of the members likes to draw.
I don't see any reason why you shouldn't participate. After all, the council is not corruptable, is it? Tongue Smilie Hehe! Or maybe the winner could be decided by a poll among all members?

Very good post Stonehelm! I agree with everything you say. Big Smile Smilie

I just want to make an observation on the topic of topics.. eh.. or something like that.
The on topic topics can generally be devided into two sub-categories; "Fact finding missions" and "Views and opinions".

"Fact finding missions" are when someone asks a conckrete question, e.g. " Who made the ring". These "discussions" end rather quickly, when someone knowledgeable comes up with the explaining quote from one of the books. That is OK, the question has been answered. These are certainly not fruitless, but we will obviosly see less and less of them as more and more questions have been answered. Usually there is little to add to these topics for newbies, but they provide a wealth of information for people to read.

"Views and opinions" are when someone starts wondering why Tolkien wrote this like that or not, e.g. "Why are Hobbits small?" (Why are they, btw? I suddenly started wondering! Big Smile Smilie) These type of questions can usually not be answered by quotations, but rely on the imagination and views of individual readers. Also, even if Tolkien did write an explanation somewhere, other views might be of interest. There has been (and still is) a long discussion on religion in ME. Tolkien did write about it, but we are not necessarily ready to accept everything he says on the subject, nor limiting ourselves to believing that there can't be more to it than that.

The latter type of topics does not have to die. As long as there are fresh angles to investigate and people get responses to their posts, these can live on forever and continue to be interesting. In order to keep people posting in these threads, it is very important that one get comments and views on one's posts. Like Vee said, too often when you post something the next poster will not comment on your post or any other post, but just present their opinion. Then we are not having a discussion, but a line of unrelated presentations. Once everyone interested has presented their view, the thread dies. With luck, a newbie will find it and post, and thus creating a new short burst of activity. But if we got the discussions going, the list to the right would always be filled with interesting topics.
Read Smilie
I was thinking that maybe we should make a group effort to create new topics. What does everyone think about some of us taking turns making good discussion topics? Maybe we each take turns posting a new thread at the beginning of the week?

Thoughts????
Some of us try to do that anyway!

But I see what you mean. We could make it a competition...... but how?
The link is fixed, I have no idea why it lead to the message board, but I guess it had to lead somewhere? Wink Smilie

When the Fan Art section of the art galleries are up again, everyone can send in their artwork. A competition is a bit intimidating, that is very very true.

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Maybe we each take turns posting a new thread at the beginning of the week?

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We could make it a competition...... but how?
Well, good threads leads to good posts which leads to POW... Why not make a friendly little private competition of being the best POW-creating topic poster? If a post in your thread gets a POW you get... I don't know...a point or something like Grondys silmarills?

This is Ama the person talking, not Ama the CM. Wink Smilie
I have to say that I am still a fairly new member and I have read and even replied to some of the older threads here and I have gotten some great replies and even a little bit of disscussion going. I really do like this forum I will say that of all the Tolkien forums out there this forum is one of only a few that does not focus soley on the movies but on the books with the movies as a sideline. I think that I agree with the idea of one of PP on this thread maybe we coul have "Topic of the Week" to go along with "Post of the Week" I am not sure if that is such a good idea but it might be something that would get some new topics going.

Ashley276
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Well, good threads leads to good posts which leads to POW... Why not make a friendly little private competition of being the best POW-creating topic poster? If a post in your thread gets a POW you get... I don't know...a point or something like Grondys silmarills?


That's kind of the problem Amarie, we need better threads to post better posts in! If some of us want to volenteer to look for good Tolkien topics to post I think we might be able to get some good discussion going on.
Yes we need good threads to get good posts. Focusing on POWs is not good. It is the discussion that is important, to share views and thoughts, maybe learning something and see things another way.

I was just trying to make topic-finding a little more fun, so far we've made it sounds like it is a chore, something we HAVE to do, not something we WANT to do. A good topic just pops up in your head or is something you have wondered about. Sure we could instance decide to find two topics each till Monday, but it would be forced. If it doesn't come from the heart then you don't feel pationate about it and won't feel like keeping it alive.
Well you know i am always up for good topics... problem is they ain't family friendly - heh.
Count me in for any good discussion,Tolkien related or non-tolkien related, as long as people are open to an opposite theory.
Different points of view (as long as they are civil) are fine, that makes for even better discussion.

You are right about topics needing to come from the heart, Amarie. I was thinking that a group of us could each take a turn delving into Tolkien's books and finding a topic that would be good for discussion.
If, for example, I posted a topic one week, Vir did the next topic the following week, and you posted a topic the week after that then I think that would give us plenty of time between our turns to find something that is worth posting.
I'm up for good discusions, Elanor and I had a good discussion on chat beore about religion, neither of us were offensive (yes even me), we both had different views, we listened to each other then replyied and we raped it up both talking, not upset and quite happy about being able to debate in a polite way about different views. You don't have to agree with the other person, buts it's nice to be able to hear somebody elses perspective.
I think there is a perception amongst members that religion and politics are banned because they are not deemed "family friendly". This is not the case at all.
We have members from many countries and religious affliations. But a couple of years ago, what started out as discussions about Tolkien's spiritualism in his works managed to lead to heated discussions about members religious beliefs and some insensitive people condemned others values and beliefs. Derogatory comments were aimed at fundamentalist religious groups in various religious orders. As you can imagine, one cannot help but take it personally when their values and beliefs are "threatened". What resulted were members leaving because they were hurt and justifiably so.
The same thing happened with political discussions. There were both anti-"whatever" and rah rah rah threads which caused members to rise very passionately to the defense of their country .
To me, religion is a very personal thing and I would not impose my beliefs on anyone, no matter what the afterlife (or lack thereof) may hold for me. Because of this, I see no place for religious discussions outside a "clinical" comparision between Tolkien's ME and the doctrine of his Roman Catholic faith. Unfortunately, when these discussions have been approached, someone always had to attempt to impose their religious values (or lack thereof) on the participants.
As far as political, the world is far from stable and utopian. It has been this way since the beginning of time and, at the risk of sounding cynical, always will be.It is human nature to blame someone when things go wrong. It is also human nature to attack that which we don't understand because we fear what we do not know. People are as passionate about their country as they are about their religion. It hurts a great deal for someone to say something critical about your home and your fellow citizens. It is very easy for discussions to lead to hurt through thoughtless and passionate statements.
It is very easy to misinterpret what a person has stated in the forum format. No body language and no opportunity for immediate response. We have many members whose second language is English, albeit, they have a very strong knowledge of the language. Sometimes this can lead to misunderstandings, as it is hard to distinquish between a joke (sarcasm) from a serious comment. My weakness is to skim through a post too quickly and not getting the complete picture. (One of the drawbacks of ADD)
The family friendly status criteria, as set down by the "Family Friendly Site" organization is listed in the "rules". Basically, no foul language or "adult" content. This status is an advantage for PT as it means that schools can suggest our site for assignments or to students who have a passion for our dear Professor Tolkien.
Anyway, I hope this helps you understand why things are the way they are at PT. Smile Smilie
Believe me when I say I understand why they are gone. It has been explained several times and I fully understand. I know that many discussions were turning nasty and that was why the topics were banned.
Heh! I saw a cartoon today, fitting too well to not link to it! Better reason for not allowing politics and religion you need not look for. It is always nice and heartwarming to see people come together, showing tolerance and understanding. Tongue Smilie

NB! The link in question obviously contain both religious and political statements. I don't think the cartoon in question should offend anyone, but if you click further I can't guarantee anything.

You'll need to click get image, for some reason.

Clicky
Cute, Grev! And no, I was not offended in the least by it. Wink Smilie I'm not going to add anything to this discussion, as it seems that I would only be reiterating what has already been posted. Big Smile Smilie

By the way, hey, Grev!! Haven't met up with you too often lately.
Very topical Grev. That is often the problem in this world. People are tolerant of others as long as those others conform with their own views. I caught a discussion on Radio 4 last week between what can only be the two ladies depicted in that cartoon. If it wasn't for the case that I wanted to slap both of them Tongue Smilie , it would have been quite interesting.
Perhaps we should all take an oath.....

"I swear by the Flame Imperishable to follow the paths of Eru in tolerance, understanding and acceptance of those seeking knowledge of The Creator, JRR Tolkien. To uphold his teachings in the ways of Middle Earth, to tread in the footsteps of Olorin and sit at the table of Elrond in peace. Galadriel be our hope and Earendil our light and may all who gather with us, be they hobbits, elves, men or dwarves, draw strength and enlightenment from our community. May each individual voice increase in unison and harmony so that the music of Tolkien is heard until the end of days."

Maybe just a bit OTT....
That sounds very good Vee. Did you make it up from whole cloth without a pattern, or did you have a dressmaker's framework on which to cut and stitch your patchwork of ideas? Cool Elf Smilie
Can't use patterns, can't sew, can't knit - the one jumper I managed to finish took me 3 years and looked like a cartoon christmas present jumper. My mother was an excellent dressmaker/seamstress and could knit while standing on her head with one hand tied behind her back.

Incidentally, somewhere it was mentioned that summer is usually a quiet time for PT .... I can understand this if many of our younger members only have access at school and even adults are allowed a break. But wouldn't it be nice if we could attract more people so that the quiet period doesn't turn into a deathly quiet period?

We need a campaign!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe we should have left those old threads up and locked by way of explanation. Though I think it was me that deleted a lot of them...
Not everyone takes abuse as good naturedly as you do Ross mate.
And if I could pronounce that oath, I'd take it. Nice one Vee.
Oh and the first arguments that began all the banning of politics and religion, I believe were entirely my fault.
As for interesting topics, has the Bombadil one been up and around again recently? It always works well and there's always some new poster wanting to know what the deal is with the guy.

*Missing Prog and his happy temper....*
Was Bombadil Important? or something like that has been around recently.

Looking at the menu on the right I see perhaps two quizzes that are Tolkien related and one good discussion thread which is this one. The other 12 threads are non-tolkien trivia or guessing games.

I've tried.... I have...... and I still am........ but oh the pain, the pain!
Yes but you take the abuse as well as me. Next time I see you on messenger, i'll sling abit of it and if my desktop isn't covered in abuse from you i'll be slightly upset Plastic Tongue Smilie . If people can't take a bit of harmless abuse here on the internet from strangers that they're never likely to meet, they're going to have it rough in the real world.

Moderator Smilie Sorry Ross, had to edit that last comment slightly. Elfstone Moderator Smilie
I think it depends on the situation. There are plenty of newsgroups around that positively welcome abuse hurling and demand a robust constitution. There are other groups and websites, such as this one, that positively discourage such action and rightly so. I've seen groups destroyed because of abuse and while you say people should learn to take it they may feel they have a right to somewhere abuse free so that the focus is on discussion rather than childish gameplaying about who gets the last word or who can throw nastier insults. Abuse may bring out the arguments but it doesn't bring out discussion when people are insulted, albeit verbally, for their views, opinons, beliefs, personality or intelligence and to throw abuse around merely to get a reaction is very negative.

It is not good enough to say these are people you will never meet so it is OK, that it is not a real life medium so it is OK, that people need to toughen up so it is OK. It is a real life text based medium and if one needs to hide behind an online persona playing the tough guy then that is a personal choice but don't assume that everyone here is some kind of imaginary being playing out a game in front of a pc. It is as valid as TV, radio and newspapers and I certainly wouldn't want to switch on the TV to hear someone I will never meet tell me personally what a stupid, ridiculous idiot I am for putting forward my views. In the same way I wouldn't want to read through the forums and find insults and abuse to me or anyone else. Not because I can't take it but because I choose to not wish to take it.

People are here because they want to be, to contribute to or just read a Tolkien site. Contributions are voluntary and every member is valuable. So what happens when people vote with their keyboards and leave because it isn't the friendly site they thought? The site suffers, Taz gets fed up beating his head against a brick wall for people who don't give any thought to their actions and the site closes........

My point? Take abuse somewhere it is welcome. Treat PT with respect and give a little thought to all the hard work Taz has put into it. Use your wit and intelligence to contribute to PT not to damage it.

And have a nice day - see you on chat.

Wiggle Smilie




Yes Ross, but me and you are just different to most. Bet you my post doesn't get edited mate!
Oh, and the classic Bombadil discussion is what the heck was he? The whether he is important or not has only come up since a certain movie cut him out completely.
Well, whether he is important or not has to do with what he is and what he does, so it IS the classic discussion. Just go and take a look.
Yep, what was he ? was covered in that thread as well. Go and add your 50p to it.
Plastic you could have a point there dude!

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There are plenty of newsgroups around that positively welcome abuse hurling and demand a robust constitution. There are other groups and websites, such as this one, that positively discourage such action and rightly so. I've seen groups destroyed because of abuse and while you say people should learn to take it they may feel they have a right to somewhere abuse free so that the focus is on discussion rather than childish gameplaying about who gets the last word or who can throw nastier insults. Abuse may bring out the arguments but it doesn't bring out discussion when people are insulted, albeit verbally, for their views, opinons, beliefs, personality or intelligence and to throw abuse around merely to get a reaction is very negative.


Well if you choose to belive that sarcasm and abuse as being negative and you also chose to belive that I'm hidding behind a online tough guy image, thats your choice. But i think you'de find if you talk to me, that I'm a realist but also quite a positive person, who is very open. I don't take offense by what any one says because of years of bullying, where I learnt to fight back with everything you have. Now I see trying to wrap up the world in cotton wool as negative and the ratings of the site seems to be backing me up. We've gone from being a vibrant community of people discussing subjects, to a small bunch of scared sycophants who can say nothing better than "Hello how are you?". People don't even say how much they even liked the movies any more, let alone the books. Like yousaid it's all a matter of perspective!
What you are in so-called real life is irrelevant as I only have your online persona to go by. You might be a sweet pussy cat of a lad and I'd love you to bits. Actually, I don't dislike your online persona, I just wondered why anyone would want to hurl abuse around a place like this. To me it equates to the football hooligan mentality. And I am not saying you have the mentality of a football hooligan - so far you have only talked about abuse (I think) in a nostalgic way. I just don't see the point of it here.

I've met one or two people whose online personas can only be described as 'bully boys' and they are the biggest wussies ever.
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Oh, and the classic Bombadil discussion is what the heck was he? The whether he is important or not has only come up since a certain movie cut him out completely

Two certain movies, actually. I don't recall seeing our Tom in the animated Saul Zaentz production.
Elanors nice long post has been moved to "Was Tom Bombadil Important" under "characters" as Tom B isn't the topic here, but it is over there. Smile Smilie
-Amarie Moderator Smilie
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We've gone from being a vibrant community of people discussing subjects, to a small bunch of scared sycophants who can say nothing better than "Hello how are you?". People don't even say how much they even liked the movies any more, let alone the books. Like yousaid it's all a matter of perspective!


And you blame that on the fact that abusive posts and gratuitous insulting is not welcome here? You don't think that constant attacks on PJ and the films have anything to do with people being unwilling to discuss movies?

I see several good discussions around at the moment, this included and I can't see them being improved by malicious rantings.

There are many factors influencing PT's popularity as discussed earlier in this thread. I'm waiting with worms on my tongue to see what Taz does next for the site. Slowly but surely he is getting it together. Faster, Taz, faster!
True Tom Bom was not in the Bakshi Movie either, but that was so long ago that the discussion didn't come up until PJ cut him out. He's not in the BBC radio version either but there you go. I was merely ststing the facts of how the arguments go. And have had that discussion so many times over the last four or five years I don't think I'll bother again. Most people know all my vague and bizarre theories on Bombadil now anyway.

As to the Padded cell, I don't think we need it, anyone who wants to throw or get abuse come over to Squirrelworld, where Ross will hand it out to you in huge doses. Smile Smilie
The padded cell post was just a joke..... I deleted it just in case someone thought I was serious.
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