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Thread: Harry Potter and LOTR and Religion

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > The Forsaken Inn > Harry Potter and LOTR and Religion   [1] [2] >>
I'm hoping that maybe there will be chances for other characters (because we have already seen others "shine through") to become heros. I think JK has put a little too much weight in Harry - each time he prevails, he lifts the bar a bit higher. I enjoyed the first movie because it was a group effort that got him to the end, but the same is not true for the other books. I know I'm being helplessly and hopelessly romantci when I say that it is our relationships that make us really interesting. And we already know everything there is to know about Harry, Hermoine and Ron......
I agree with most of what you have said Swampfaye, except:
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Add to this the fact that Harry never truly needs his teachers or advisors to "help" him with any of his battles. It is debatable if they even provide him with the tools he needs. Everything seems to fall in place through no council or advice of his elders. In fact, he is constantly *disobeying* his elders.
Yes he is disobeying his elders; however Professor Dumbledore is always providing him with the tools to do this, and to meet the next challenge, even if indirectly. Dumbledore is training Harry or using him as a tool. In fact I wholly expect Harry to become Dumbledore's replacement as head of Hogwarts at the end of the final chapter of the final book; just as I expect Hermione to become Professor. McGonagall's.

I also don't see any spirituality in the HP books, in fact it is laughed at as being unscientific (using the muggle term for want of a better) even though Professor Trelawney did actually come through with event unbeknownced to her. Everthing is in black or white, except sometimes a few people are hiding their light or darkness under a basket so as to keep their true nature from being discovered. I find very few, if any, shades of gray in the HP books, which I suppose, is as it should be in a childrens' series.
Interesting, I don't know enough about the Harry Potter books to join in really on this discussion. However, I must say I was very upset at the end of the first film when Harry & Hermoine when there own way's. I was so hoping they were going to get together..
You will have to wait until the fourth book for stuff like that, and even then your specific hope will not come into fruitition. Smile Smilie
Smile Smilie I agree with most of the comments about the Harry Potter series. They are a great series for kids. Big Smile Smilie Our whole family has read them. I read the first two books very quickly. Then I read them to our son. By the time we finished reading them together the third book was out. We would read a little almost every night and still doing that, together it took 1 year to read the third book. I was only in first grade, and I had to explain a lot to him. We had some very in depth discussions for a first grader. He was going to a private Lutheran school, and asked me why Harry, Ron and Hermione never went to church or prayed at meal times and at bed time etc. I explained that not everyone had the same beliefs that we do, and postAuthorIDs sometimes try to leave their beliefs out of their book, or put it subtly, so as not to offed others. (I know that is not always the case, but I was talking to a 6 yr old child.) Later he asked why some people at church did not like the HP books? He said he heard someone say they were evil, and asked if we were evil for reading them. Sad Smilie Pretty deep for a child, huh? Explaing that about 1/2 of the church said they were evil and the other 1/2 loved them was even more confusing to him. I also explained that reading a book does not make a person evil. It is what is inside that matters, that some of the people in church did not like the books just because they were about witches and wizards. (Most of whom had not even read the books. Those that had were just being very narrowminded and wanted some thing to complain about, and not everyone is like that.)
I believe the characters started out simple enough for him to like them and understand them, but just complex enough for him to want more. I also think that they do develope a little more with each book.
Well I could say a lot more both good and bad, but this is already getting tooooo long.
Sorry about that.
He loved the movie and came up with ways to make it even better, and is anxiously awaiting the next book and film to come out.
Welcome MelliotSandybanks, I am glad you have joined us.
I think it is a shame when people have to make so much hoopla about a child's book. Harry Potter was written for children even though many adults love the series. Personally, I love them because they take me back to books I read as a child and they bring back happy feelings. Good vs evil in black and white, no gray. Rowling did not intend for these books to be any type of allegory such as the Narnia series by Lewis, she simply wrote a good fantasy story for children. We complicate children's lives too much as it is; so why analyse Harry Potter for them. Let them enjoy it for what it is, I did.
Welcome to the forum MelliotSandybanks. Smile Smilie

Some of we Christians can be very un-Christ-like in our intolerance for things we don't even try to understand, but just fanatically take the word of others as the gospel truth. In doing so we miss many joys in life and only spread hate and discontent, rather than providing a fine example of someone actually Walking the Way. Sad Smilie

You, however, sound like you have learned a better way to practice your faith and now are, thankfully, passing this on to your children. Good for you. Big Smile Smilie
Thank You for the welcome to the forum, and the kind replies to my post. I agree that it is a shame that people have to make such a big deal about children's books. I would never have brought up the matter to my son, if he hadn't asked me about it first. A child should not have to have that kind of thing explained to him at such a young age. There are enough other problems that he is going to have to deal with just growing up and then into adulthood. Why should we have to put these pressures on them so young. I love my son and want to protect him as much as possible and let him have fun growing up and enjoying being a child. On the other hand I don't want to be too over protective either. I just pray the I am given the guidence to find a happy medium.

I do know that he will not be intollerant of other's beliefs and cultures. My husband and I have completely different religious beliefs and Robbie is exposed to both. He hears our discussions and realizes that we don't fight or try to change the other's mind. But we do discuss it. (I am Christian and my husband is agnostic, bordering on atheist. OOPs I hope I spelled that right. Tongue Smilie

BTW Robbie is now 8 years old and he is starting the Harry Potter books again on his own. That should be interesting. The first one should not be a problem. I am not sure about the others.

I think after he finishes them I am going to have him do a book report on the first one. Then we are going to read The Hobbit together and I'll have him do a book report on it. I don't think he is ready for the Lord of the Rings Trilogy yet. Wink Smilie
Greetings MelliotSandybanks! Welcome to the forums! I have not read any of the Harry Potter books nor seen the film but I am aware of the controversy surrounding them.

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I also explained that reading a book does not make a person evil. It is what is inside that matters


Amen! It's really a shame that so many Christians don't see this fundamental truth. I know a couple that won't let their son play with the little boy living next door because he's a big fan of Batman! Now, how absurd is that?! Talk about missing one of the many joys in life! This poor boy is minus a friend!

I could easily let this degenerate into a rant, so I'll cut off here and just echo Grondy's comments. Good for you!
ProgHead777, thank you for the welcome. It is nice to be in a forum where people are not going to shun me for my beliefs.

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I know a couple that won't let their son play with the little boy living next door because he's a big fan of Batman!
Shocked Smilie

That is very absurd!! My husband is a huge fan of Batman, so of course our son is too. That couple would not let my family any where near them then. Children need all the friends they can make. A parent does have the right to say you can not play with a certain child, but that needs to be on a deeper level than Batman or Harry Potter or other fictional character. Attitude, behavior, language. etc.
I don't know folks, all that rubber makes Batman a very suspicous character... Wink Smilie
lol Big Laugh Smilie
I'd just like to second (or perhaps third!) the it's not what you read that makes you evil. As a teenager I love fantasy and am a Christian and I know some people think the books I read are evil and think in some ways that makes me evil too because I enjoy reading them. It's nice to know there's some support for us bookworms out there!!
I have spent lots of time defending myself on that one, Rosie. There are far better ways to determine what a person is like (perhaps, by spending time talking with them) then to judge them by what they read or how they dress or by what ever other standards society has set. Smile Smilie
Let's here it for the bookworms of the world. I have also spent lots of time defending myself too, and it looks like my Robbie, is going to go through that as well. You know you are not suppose to judge a book by its cover, so why should people be any different. It is what is inside that is important.
Definitely there are far more important things than what you read although,,.,,,, bookworms rule the world!!!! Big Smile Smilie
Yeah what SHE said! Shaking Head Smilie by the way... where is he?

[Edited on 1/10/2002 by Orimono_Shujin]
He who Orimono? Rosie and I are both female.
I REFUSE to watch the new HP-movie, the first one ruined my image of Dumbledore, but then Sir Ian came and made such a perfect Gandalv that it all got betterSmile Smilie No I've seen the house-elf and the teacher Gilderoy and they are both wrong! Sad Smilie Now I'm scared to think what they have done to the rest of the caracters and especially to Dumbledores phenix and the huge snake! Shaking Head Smilie

Phew.. I had to get it of my chest. I love the books, but the movies are just.. wrong. I know the kids love them, but still..
I liked it, and I thought Richard Harris was perfect as Dumbledore, and I'm a long way off being a kid, can't wait...
Sorry, Amarie. I have to agree with Plastic on this one. I have read all of the books twice, once for my own enjoyment, and once to Robbie. We went to see the movie, the 2nd day it was out. Big family thing, dinner and a movie, and lots of shopping first. Anyhow, we sat down in the seats, to prepare for the experience of seeing our favorite characters come to life. I expected the movie to really stink for adults, but thought the kids would like it. By the time the movie was over my opinion had changed. I thought that they had done an excellent job with the casting, and loved the movie as a whole. My husband was concerned that people that had not read the books would not understand some things, but he also liked it. Hopefully you will enjoy the 2nd movie better.

I am just worried that JK Rowling is getting too involved in the movies, and going to forget about the rest of the books. I would rather her finish the books, and do the movies later.

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I am just worried that JK Rowling is getting too involved in the movies, and going to forget about the rest of the books. I would rather her finish the books, and do the movies later

I have the same fear, Mel. Super Scared Smilie
I remember seeing an interview with JK when she came out with the 2nd book. She said that there would not be Harry Potter toys or movies, she was not interested in commercializing dear old Harry. Ahhhh, how money does persuade us to back down on our principles. Tongue Smilie
I've got my boyfriends 12 year old sister to back me up, she's the one i borrowed the books from the first time i read them (now I got them myself and has read them 2-4 times). She agrees with me (but she still wants to see itWink Smilie ). I'm not saying they are bad actors, far from it! Some of them just don't match the pictures J and I have in our heads! Some people are very disapionted over the fotr movie, others (like me) love it! Richard Harris did a great job, but I pictured Dumbledore more like Sir Ian did Gandalf and that is not his or Rowling fault! And now you made me want to see the movie after all. Thank you for giving me positive thoughts about the movie, when even the Squirrel has good things to say then it must be good! Elf With a Big Grin Smilie I Have to download it though, the quality isn't top class but I can't stand dubbing! (It's not leagal, I know. Moderator Smilie ) The english version is not likely to be shown here where I live.

It's the warner brothers that make the toys isn't it? JK didn't want it, but WB does it anyway 'cause they have the lisence to make them. Am I wrong?

And I hope the new book comes in the black and gold like the ones I have (the drawings on the covers are wrong too you see. I'm not an easy person to please. Cool Smilie )
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It's the warner brothers that make the toys isn't it? JK didn't want it, but WB does it anyway 'cause they have the lisence to make them

Yes, but who sold the rights to Warner Brothers?
Amarie,
hehheeee...That is a problem, when people read a book, they have a picture in their minds. When that book is made into a movie, different people have different images, and it is impossible to please everyone. lol. Maybe we need you to be a consultant on future movies, just to see the differences. Could be interesting.

I also liked FotR, on a whole, I was not pleased with the changes they made, but I thouht the movie itself was great.

You are also right about Warner Brothers doing the toys and such, but JK Rowling did have to agree to it, and doesn't she get some of the money? I am not sure on either point, but that would make sense to me. So, yes, I do agree with Nell:
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Ahhhh, how money does persuade us to back down on our principles.
lol Nell, you posted while I was typing. heheeehe. We think so much alike sometimes. and even at the same time.
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Thank you for giving me positive thoughts about the movie, when even the Squirrel has good things to say then it must be good! Elf With a Big Grin Smilie I Have to download it though, the quality isn't top class but I can't stand dubbing! (It's not leagal, I know. Moderator Smilie ) The english version is not likely to be shown here where I live.

Lol.
Bad quality movies are never a good thing, I've hated movies for months cos I've only seen them on pirate, and then when I saw them in full technicolour glory, with no jumpy soundtrack, I've loved them. You can't get the movie to look just like it does in your head, that's impossible. But it can still be real pretty, and fun to watch, which it is.
For one thing, I always pictured Hogwarts as looking like my old school (don't laugh, it wasn't far off) and Privet Drive as a lot less like where I deliver every morning (now that made me laugh). But I didn't really care, cos it was still fun to watch. See if you can get hold of a proper copy Amarie, it might change your opinion, dl'ed stuff can just annoy you as you strain to see and hear everything.
I don't watch any lousy bigscreen-filmed-with-hand-heldt-camera movies, we do have some standards. Wink Smilie If the quality is bad it gets deleted emediatly. Clear pictures and good sound is a must. DVD's are of course better, but divx is free. If the movie is great and worth using money on, we bye it! (I know, I'm still a :moderatorSmile Smilie
It depends on the format. Many DivX films are near DVD quality and will fit on a 700MB CD-R. Check out this site for more info:

http://www.fasttrackmovies.com/default.asp

Read the Help/FAQ section. It should tell you everything you need to know. They have hundreds of movies of varying quality that have been confirmed as real files and virus free. Many are even rated by quality. They also have TV series if anyone is interested.
Oh I like the hand held camera ones, they're great cos you get to see peopole walk past the camera, hear them laugh and find out what they were eating and everything.
lol
But to get back on topic, I heard that Rowling had footnotes in the first copies of the HP-book telling where to find out more about which-craft and such. Is that true or is it a rumor?
Totally rumour, probably invented by those bible bashing nutcases who want to ban everything.
We didn't see them here either. I just want the next book to come out. After she finishes the series, then work on the blasted movies. This interruption is really annoying me. Don't get me wrong, I did like the movie, but I would rather read. It is much cheaper that way. Sometimes cash is in such low supply that we can't afford to go to the movies.

Oh, Plastic, our church is about 1/2 and 1/2 concerning Harry, but Pastor and his wife, loved Harry. So, I now have a bit more support at church. I love it. People tend not to argue with Pastor and family too much. Also, our old Pastor that retired, has a son that is also a Pastor, (Mark). Pastor Mark and his wife also like HP. So, that makes 2 out of 3 Pastors affiliated with our chuch that have small children that help us out. So, not everyone that reads the bible is a nutcase. It is just the ones making a big stink about it, that get the publicity. I wish they would just keep their mouths closed. They give the rest of us a bad name.
I heard Richard Harris died! Is it true? So the cancer won.. Poor guy. Rest in peace... Sad Smilie
Yes Amarie,
Sadly, Mr. Harris died last week. Sad Smilie
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Sadly, Mr. Harris died last week.
And I just can't see Saruman (Christopher Lee) as Dumbledore; maybe as Professor Snape, but never as the kindly Head Master. Richard Harris just fit that mold too well. So how about no more Harry Potter movies after this coming one, and LET'S GET ON WITH WRITING THE FIFTH BOOK JK! Jumping Flame Smilie
I second that Grondy!! We want books! We want books!
I whole heartedly agree!! We want books! We want books!
wow... this thread is still going? I've been gone months...
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wow... this thread is still going? I've been gone months...


Awhh, but we have kept you in our hearts, swampfaye. Wink Smilie

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I second that Grondy!! We want books! We want books!

And I third that! I am getting sick to death of the Harry Potter fans asking me when the next book will be out. Mad Smilie



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I got 4 tickets to Harry potter baby, come with me please and don't say maybe...


Lucky me scored tickets to the PREVIEW of the new movie on friday night, so who wants a Squirrelised review posted up here somewhere? Complete with kiddy reactions and everything?
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who wants a Squirrelised review posted up here somewhere? Complete with kiddy reactions and everything?

I do! Only I'm just pretty sure that I'm going to be disappointed with the movie.
Okay, I'll probably put it up on Mondy morning (busy weekend as always)
Only I'm just pretty sure that I'm going to be disappointed with the movie.
I was really disapionted with the first movie, but then I saw it again a few weeks ago and I liked it much better. I expected the movie to be just like, and as perfect as, the book. I was just to "attached" to the book the give the movie a fair chance. Maybe seeing the lotr-movie first before reading the lotr-book made me see that a movie can be great even though it differs a bit from the book. Or maybe the logical part of my braincells just woke up. Who knows? Big Laugh Smilie

I didn't want to see hp2 either, but then the Squirrel and Mellie said really nice things about it and I saw some better screen-shots (and saw hp1 again), so now I want to see it after all, I fear it's lousy but really hope it's not. So elentari31, we just have to have low expectations and hope for a pleasant supprise! Wink Smilie
Okay, see review (only slightly coloured by my terrible mood) over in the Forsaken Inn under Films, reviews, rants etc. etc. ( I think thatst the name of the thread)
Although this doesn't have to do with religion, it is Harry Potter related, and pretty funny.
Forwarning though, this is PG stuff, but nothing to bad.
http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/potterpuppetpals_movie.php
and
http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/potterpuppetpals2_movie.php
Lol, have fun!
Those were great Andrea.

The violence was bloodless and the nudness was laughable.

Good fun!
i went to a website and they were showing how the HP books were not against Christianity. Harry is the Christ of the book, Dumbledore...God, Voldemort...Satan. there is the traditional fight between good and evil. if i can find the website, ill post it.
Ppl who consider HP, LOTR or whatever book is against/supporting christianity are messing up allegory with applicability.
Harry Potter is NOT religious. Reading "Hogwarts or Hogwash?" helps to realise that. Basic things like the soul, good and evil, and god and all that are NOT the same as the real world.
And this allegory stuff (Harry being Christ and that) is Not true. If Harry was Christ, I would be SCARED.
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