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I'm betting that there are as many answers to that question as there are people on Earth. I think I know where your coming from with that question and I can realate completely. But if there's one thing I've learned lately from the good people that populate this site, it's that when people criticize America they usually mean the government and not it's people. America is highly visible in todays world and, as everyone knows, it's always the faults and never the virtues that get all the media coverage.

I recently saw a photo from an anit-war rally in the UK. Several people were holding American flags with swastikas superimposed over the stars. You have to wonder what makes people feel that way. Some think that we should revert to pre-WWII isolationism. Perhaps we would be better off if we minded our own business...
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So you come off to many as being too arrogant and that can be offensive.
This one tries very hard not to be. Elf Winking Smilie

The council will be monitoring this thread carefully so be gentle with your criticism, no baiting with hot button issues; such as: "I often think that we no longer have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, but that we now have the best government that the multi-national corporations and their lapdog media can buy." Elf With a Big Grin Smilie Elf Rolling Eyes Smilie Very Sad Smilie
Well. I try not to be too arrogant either. Personally, I like the way Ringfacwen, worded the relply. It was considerate of Americans feelings and not in the least offensive. I know us Americans can be offensive to others, but some of us really do try not to be.
I think because the USA is so big and powerfull and has so much to say in the world, all their thoughts and actions and plans get magnified. They get more meaning and bigger consequenses. It's a big responcebility. It is easy to dislike and maybe envy the USA, but I believe we'd have a problem with any country of that sice and influence no matter who they were. It's just they way we humans are.
I must agree with all the above. Here on the continent, the US has the image of the all-powerful police over the world. Something like that. But it's the US government, like Prog said, we look at. Not the people. I mean, what the government does or says is not always what the majority of the population does or says. I think too that the US goverment tends to butt in (like Ringfacwen said) a bit too often, but that's what America's like. They've always done that ever since they grew big and powerful, and I guess they will go on doing it.
I hope I've never come off as arrogant because I'm really not. Indeed, I once made the argument that America is NOT "better". When I look at, for instance, Canada, I see a sister nation to the US. Our people are not so different. Like Ringfacwen said, some of us make fun of each other but I think no real harm is intended... like siblings.

Remember that the vast majority of Americans are decended from imigrants from other countries. We are proud of that heritage and are in no position to look down on anyone. Ask your average American "What do you think about (insert your nations name here)?" and the answer your likely to receive is "oh, I've always wanted to go there!" or "Oh, that's such a beautiful country!" Our governments may do and say as they please (with or without our consent) but we, the people should have no quarrels.

Love, peace and hair grease my friends Big Laugh Smilie
I agree, we can be very arrogant(and rude) Big Smile Smilie and I don't think Ringfacwen was in the least offensive. I just wonder why some people(not PT people) spend so much time bashing us, if they were in trouble, we would be the ones they ran to. The Americans,British and Canadians have always been friends, our soldiers have bled with each other in trenches and it just makes me sad when some act like they would be better off if we weren't here.

Even our own media likes to spend more time on the "looks like the US made another mistake" trail, so it's not just other countrys.

We love you to Ringfacwen!

My whole point. We are friends and allies, and always will be. Lets stop trying to insult each other and find more ways to get along.

Have a great day everyone!!! Big Smile Smilie (where ever you are from!!) Wink Smilie

[Edited on 1/12/2002 by Stonehelm]
Thanks Rinfacwen Wink Smilie I think you and I online at the same time! Big Smile Smilie

Yanks, Brits and Canucks, Peace OUT all!
I agree that this is a touchy subject, but I thank all the people who have posted here for stating their opinions in a way that was not offensive at all.
I agree with Amarie that America's actions get magnified. And I strongly agree with what Ringafacwen said about America butting into other people's buisness.
One thing I notice about America is that many people who do not live there wish they could, or try to make their countries more like America. This is not a bad thing, but I do find myself wishing that countries would keep their own indenties and not become 'Americanized'. Wink Smilie
These are, of course, only my personal observations, and I don't mean to offend anyone. Thanks for sharing all your opinions about America, they really opened my eyes. Big Smile Smilie
Wow, I love the way people have responded here. Us Americans, do have faults, and it has been discussed here very politely. The nice thing about opinions is that they belong to the individual, and no one can take that away from you. Of course, opinions can be change, along with minds, but it has to be done very delicately. Thank you evryone for sharing your opinions with us. They have been very interesting and informative. It is like sharing a part of who you are, heart, soul and mind. I feel priviliged to be able to get to know so many of you hear at PT, like that.

You know what I like about America? It's a melting pot of all cultures and races and colours and all sorts of people, yet they always feel like one nation. That's how they look to us over here. When you come from America, you come from a big country where everyone feels for each other and you're part of this big family. You guys are so lucky.
Well said Tom!
I wrote a journal about the USA, well our optimism anyways, but it's there if you want to check it out!
Well this is a touchy issue, and hopefully I will come off as being polite, and respectful as well. I think that most people that have seen me around this site since I came to PT know that Iím an American, and specifically Iím a Californian to the core. Despite our problems (and we do have many, just like any country) I love my state, and I love my country, and I personally believe that the USA is still the greatest country in the world.

I make this statement with no offense intended to any other nations. Itís just that I love my country, and I take pride in the fact that Iím an American, just like one should take pride in whatever nation, or culture one comes from. I have a great respect and love for many other countries, places, cultures, and their people.

I also have to say that I have developed a great fondness, and respect for many people around the world. In the course of the duration I have been at PT, and in the last 3 years with my own business, I have come into contact, and done business with many people all over the globe (with the majority being European). Everyone that I have gotten to know here, or on CoE, or through my business, I have found to be incredibly nice, polite, sincere, smart, and compassionate. This has really opened my eyes to others around the world, and again, as a result, I have developed a special fondness towards Europeans, and otherís around the globe. I love the spirit, passion, and enthusiasm that so many of you exhibit, that I often feel is lacking in some of my fellow Americans.

My hat is also off to those of you who donít speak English as your primary language, and have taken the time to learn it, so you can read Tolkien, post on this site, or whatever your personal reasons may be. You all deserve to be congratulated, and I personally admire, and respect each one of you for that!

America is still the one place in the world were everyone can basically truly be free, and itís the greatest land of opportunity (sometimes for better or worse). No matter what your race, color, religion, social class, etc., you can still come here and live your dream. There is a greater overall higher standard of living in this country for the average person, than just about anywhere.

In most countries, if youíre born in poverty, youíre going to stay poor, and youíre never going to have opportunities, or a chance to do something about it. In America regardless of what anyone else tells you, you have the real chance to be whatever you want to be. Itís up to you to make it happen, and you really can. This is why so many people want to live here, and why weíre the most culturally diverse nation in the world. Believe me, we truly are the great ďmelting potĒ.

As I said we definitely have our own problems, and the majority of the time, I personally wish we would spend more time concentrating on solving our own problems, instead of getting involved in other nationís affairs, but when it comes right down to it, a lot of times we are the only nation (because of our position) that can, or will do something about it, and we canít turn our backs on the people who truly need our help. Like it or not, a lot of other countries depend on us for help, support, and guidance.

Does this mean Iím proud of everything that has gone on in my countries history, absolutely not. Weíre far from perfect (nobody, or any nation is), and we have certainly made our share of mistakes, but we canít change what has happened in the past. Thatís really one of the biggest problems with the world today, and why people sometimes just canít seem to make any significant progress. There is far too much finger pointing, and passing blame for things that have already happened.

Again, none of us can go back, and change things that have happened in the past, but we all can, and should learn from our mistakes. We can all change today, and change tomorrow, to make tomorrow a better place, and regardless of what anyone else thinks, with all due respect, Iím proud to be am American! I think sadly, that in the case of my country, and how others view us around the world, it's the classic case of a ďfew bad apples ruining it for the rest of the bunch.Ē
Elf Smilie
Well said Elfstone, and as long as we don't say who those bad apples are, your post is considered as non-political, by me anyway, and can remain here until someone takes umbrage and posts something counter to it, I'll leave it alone.
I give my word that Iím not going to say anything else here on this matter. Iím quite finished, just had to throw my two cents in, and I tried to steer away from anything that might be suspect as much as possible.
Ignore Smilie
I live in America, and this question has always nawed at my toes,"what do people who don't live in America think of us?".Now it looks as if it will be answerd.
And of all the posts I have seen today,this one is the best of them all;
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You know what I like about America? It's a melting pot of all cultures and races and colours and all sorts of people, yet they always feel like one nation. That's how they look to us over here. When you come from America, you come from a big country where everyone feels for each other and you're part of this big family. You guys are so lucky.

And us Americans are so lucky.
~LadyFeawen~

[Edited on 24/6/2003 by LadyFeawen]
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You know what I like about America? It's a melting pot of all cultures and races and colours and all sorts of people, yet they always feel like one nation. That's how they look to us over here. When you come from America, you come from a big country where everyone feels for each other and you're part of this big family. You guys are so lucky.


I am sorry, but I have to disagree about this opinion. Instaed, I feel that the country that really is the melting pot of all cultures and races and colours and all sorts of prople would be Singapore. But hey, I am being a little prejudiced here since I am from there... Wink Smilie

Anyways, I have no huge grievences about America but the way its goverment handle it's affairs is what really troubles me. Don't get me wrong, I love most things American and even long to go there and see for myself what kind of place America is. But the thing that troubles me most is the image the goverment shows to the world. I mean it is like the goverment is saying, yeah, this is the right thing to do and even if you disagree I am going to carry on doing that anyway.

Moderator Smilie ... Sorry, that had to go....

So basically, the main problem that America may seem to have is its lack of tack during international policies that make us resent the country.
BTW, ..... Moderator Smilie , I am neutral as always. Big Laugh Smilie

[Edited on 24/6/2003 by Allyssa]
That was a good post Elfstone, it fits my personal opnion exactly. There are things about America that aren't the best sometimes but it is still my country, and it always will be.

In America you can go from dirt poor to filthy rich and there is no other place that offers that like we do.

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But the thing that troubles me most is the image the goverment shows to the world. I mean it is like the goverment is saying, yeah, this is the right thing to do and even if you disagree I am going to carry on doing that anyway.


Well old boy, we as sure as heck can't please everyone! Sometimes we do things that you and your government might not like but that is just how the world works.

We have to do what we think is right sometimes, and if others don't like it then thats tough, not everything we do needs to be approved by our neighbors.

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none of us can go back, and change things that have happened in the past, but we all can, and should learn from our mistakes. We can all change today, and change tomorrow, to make tomorrow a better place


D*mn good quote there Elfstone!

I'm done, nothing else to say. Namarie!!
Moderator Smilie Remember folks, keep this discussion civil. It's already bordering close to being political in nature, so try not to say anything that will tip it over the edge, or anything liable to provoke a response that will do likewise.

Many Thanks.
Moderator Smilie
Oh my, does this bring back memories Disturbed Smilie

For those that are relatively new to PT and are wondering about the origins of the ban on political discussions, you can point your fingers, at least in part, at me. Lets say that in retrospect, I should have been as polite and articulate as Elfstone. I share his opinions and feelings regarding America, my home, and for countries around the world. But I wasn't always so clear about that. Many times I seemed to be playing both sides of the political fence and, in hindsight, I guess I was always trying to stick up for whomever was on the receiving end of an attack. Instead, I came off as a hotheaded troll.

Certain areas of PT became rather ugly places for a time before the ban was enacted. I come here now and it's so much more pleasant. The thing is, if people want to impose their political beliefs on one another and become beligerent when someone disagrees, there are countless sites around the internet that exist for that sole reason. I personally (believe it or not) avoid them like the plague. But if that's your thing, then by all means.

But most of you would agree that PT is a fun place. We come here for pleasant conversations about common interests. No one comes to PT to get flamed. So my advice is, if you love the atmosphere here, and who wouldn't, respect the ban.
Moderator Smilie Sorry Ross.
I agree with alot of what you posted, and your post wasn't one sided, but it was just the sort of thing I was asking people to avoid just two posts up. This thread is already bordering the edge of being Political in nature. I think you would agree, a post discussing a nation's government and its shortcomings has to be classed as political.

Please people, be very careful what you post in this thread. Like Proghead pointed out, it was with very good reason we decided to ban politics and religion at PT. Politics causes enough strife in the world without having it upset people here.
Moderator Smilie


[Edited on 25/6/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
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But most of you would agree that PT is a fun place. We come here for pleasant conversations about common interests. No one comes to PT to get flamed. So my advice is, if you love the atmosphere here, and who wouldn't, respect the ban.


Well said Prog, I absolutely agree! Cheers to everyone here at PT from all corners of the globe!
Happy Elf Smilie
I think Greenland is cooler, but you can hardly beat Antarctica for coolness. Cool Elf Smilie Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Okey dokey, I'l bow to your judgement.

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I think Greenland is cooler, but you can hardly beat Antarctica for coolness.
Maybe Pluto. Tongue Smilie
Australia is one of the hottest countries. Big Smile Smilie Wink Smilie
So's Sweden, all those saunas it must be boiling!
Australia? Swedish saunas? Y'all come visit me at work someday, I'll show you hot. Tongue Smilie
Prog, it is nice to see you posting again. I have missed seeing you. I hope all is well.

But, if ya'll wanna see hot come to Texas in August., although I have heard that New Mexico and Arizona are hotter, I have not experience that yet.
My ex-wife (well wife until I get around to divorcing her, I suppose) was hot... real fiery temper. So Angry Smilie
Was she a red head Val?
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Was she a red head Val?

ahem, ahem!
That is actually an old wives tale. While my daughter and I may be just a wee bit headstrong, we definitely do not have fiery hot tempers. There are much better methods of getting what you want. Big Smile Smilie
Funny, once a political subject, now one about wives tales and temputure Big Laugh Smilie .
I hear Australiai is really hot,and from what I have seen of the Assies,there really hot too Big Laugh Smilie Wink Smilie
Little-Miss-F~
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But, if ya'll wanna see hot come to Texas in August.


My Mom (and brother, and one sister) have lived in Austin for around the last 10 years. I believe I've only been to Texas once during the summer, and it was about 8 years ago in August. Anyway, I made the mistake of mowing the lawn at my momís house in the middle of the day, and needless to say, I thought I was going to die!
Dead Smilie
I hear Arrakis is hot this and every time of year!
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Was she a red head, Val?

Opps, sorry about that Nell.

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My Mom (and brother, and one sister) have lived in Austin for around the last 10 years. I believe I've only been to Texas once during the summer, and it was about 8 years ago in August. Anyway, I made the mistake of mowing the lawn at my momís house in the middle of the day, and needless to say, I thought I was going to die!


I know what you mean, my mom is the one that does the yard work at our house. Several years ago, she was mowing the lawn, and it was 115 deg F or about 46 deg C. We kept taking her wet wash cloths and water, to dring and spraying her with a hose so she would not have a heat stroke. Our backyard is huge and it takes 4 hours to just mow it, that is not counting the other work that goes into taking care of a yard. We were really worried about her. Now that she is older, we have had it landscaped a bit, and she can do it in sections. We have tried to help her, but she won't let us. The yard is her favorite thing she does, and she won't let me near a mower, I tried once and she swore never again.
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The yard is her favorite thing she does, and she won't let me near a mower, I tried once and she swore never again.
OMG!! Super Scared Smilie Hearing that your hubby won't let you near the kitchen knives, I can just imagine the trouble you could get into with a lawn mower, even an old non-powered one. The first thing you'd have to do is lock-up all the animals, especially those with long tales*. Super Scared Smilie

*tails :elfembar: sometimes I mean to use the play on words, but not this time. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

[Edited on 28/6/2003 by Grondmaster]
Talk about hot jobs, I knew a lady who liked to do her ironing on 40 deg. C days. Yikes! Super Scared Smilie
That's right Grondy, nothing with sharp edges or me. Although I am usually pretty good with scissors, believe it or not.

I am actually getting better at ironing. I figured that if I can't do much else, that I needed to be good at laundry. It is a job that I don't enjoy much, but at least there are no sharp surfaces.
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The US also tends to butt into others' business. Now that's a good thing in many cases but sometimes they do so even when not necessary.

Now this is just my point of view. But I agree with Prog that many have a problem with the government and not necessarily with the people.

Waving Hello Smilie


ok i am probably coming into this conversation way to late but i have something to say.

Moderator Smilie Sorry EvithianEhtmire, but we have agreed not to talk about the war on P-T, so your legitimate statement of facts had to go. - Grondy Moderator Smilie

i bet this and other things have alrady been said but i felt an urge to say something.

[Edited on 8/8/2003 by Grondmaster]
My mom has forbidden me from watching the news because I get really upset when I hear/ see things like that on t.v., and I totally agree with EvithianEhtmire on what we are doing.
glad to know. Wink Smilie