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Oh, I'm just picking on you. But seriously, Vanilla Sky is terrible, Cameron Crowe notwithstanding (very sad, that). Abre los Ojos is much better, although still not great. Mulholland is good, deeply warped, very Lynchian. Good thing it didn't get on TV like it was supposed to, my set would have exploded from shock.
Rosie posted on 10/1/2002 at 23:32
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Perhaps i'll check it out then. But i seem to have some sort of phobic aversion to war movies. That's why i avoided saving private ryan and the thin red line like the plague. War movies are so violent and bloody and..yucky. Sad Smilie
[Edited on 17/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Allyssa posted on 11/1/2002 at 10:54
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You're right about war movies Rosie. Sad truth is that WAR is violent, bloody and yucky.

Technically, isn't TLoR a war movie? I wonder how graphic the battle scenes in TTT and ToTK will be?
Plastic Squirrel posted on 11/1/2002 at 11:53
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If you don't like bloody and yucky and nasty, then don't see it Rosie, it's supposed to be like the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan, only for 2 1/2 hours Big Smile Smilie
And the violence in all three Lotr films is supposed to be Majorly nasty, that's why they've made Orc blood black, to get round the censors! Big Smile Smilie
TomBombadillo posted on 12/1/2002 at 13:11
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Yuk! Black blood. Suits the Orcs. Smile Smilie
My guess is there will be a lot of action and violence and stuff in the next two movies. Maybe that's also cos there is a lot of battling in the book. Smile Smilie
Rosie posted on 13/1/2002 at 02:01
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But it's different in LOTR, they're not real people and you KNOW that it's all fake and everything..
but war movies that are based on real events, like all the Vietnam war movies and etc are all the more horrifying because you feel that it must have been something like that on the battle field.
TomBombadillo posted on 13/1/2002 at 12:17
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Uhuh. Agree. But I always liked watching war movies. Especially the ones about WWII. Don't know why. But I liked them, like Guns of Navarone, and Bridge over the River Kwai. Just that they are designed to be war movies, and LOTR isn't. It's not a war book, it's a quest book. Smile Smilie
Plastic Squirrel posted on 13/1/2002 at 13:04
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That's why Saving Private Ryan is such a great movie (well the opening bit anyway) cos it actually shows just how horrific it really must have been in those landings, rather than glorifying the whole thing like so many other movies have done before.
TomBombadillo posted on 14/1/2002 at 16:52
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Plastic: I agree. But Lotr still isn't. Smile Smilie No, seriously: I agree. War movies should be like that. You can't glorify a war as horrible as WW II or the Vietnam war, or any war. You should picture it the way it was.
Huan posted on 15/1/2002 at 13:06
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Plastic - wahddya mean R. Scott never did a bad movie - GI Jane with Demi Moore -awful jingoistic stuff - probably just as bad as his new Black Hawk Down. What a load of nonsense. Scott did 2 great movies (Alien and Bladerunner) and lots of OK movies. Don't worry about violence. Its humanities favorite theme. From Greek theatre, Ovid, the Classics Shakespeare right up to today. But of course there is a world of difference between Saving, Thin Red Line, Johnny get your gun, even Peckingpah's Cross of Iron, and THE DEFINITIVE war movie Elem Klimov's "Come and See" and Kubricks Paths of Glory..... the list goes on and crappy Hamburger Hill, Top Gun, Green berets style stuff with les boys.... Don't throw away the movie just because its a war movie. Forget about the John Waynes and the Charlton Hestons; There are some really good mlovies, using war thematics. Pity too miss them. And for Plastic musn't forget the all time great Ingrid War movie "For Whom the Bell tolls".

Happy viewing.
[Edited on 17/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Swampfaye posted on 15/1/2002 at 18:47

Huan's quote:
Quote:
Don't worry about violence. Its humanities favorite theme. From Greek theatre, Ovid, the Classics Shakespeare right up to today. But of course there is a world of difference between Saving, Thin Red Line, Johnny get your gun, even Peckingpah's Cross of Iron, and THE DEFINITIVE war movie Elem Klimov's "Come and See" and Kubricks Paths of Glory..... the list goes on and crappy Hamburger Hill, Top Gun, Green berets style stuff with les boys.... Don't throw away the movie just because its a war movie. Forget about the John Waynes and the Charlton Hestons; There are some really good mlovies, using war thematics. Pity too miss them. And for Plastic musn't forget the all time great Ingrid War movie "For Whom the Bell tolls".

Happy viewing.

and her reply
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Boy, have you got a chip on your shoulder....
And forget about Charleton Heston and John Wayne, two of the 20th Centuries greatest actors? Where would LOTR be without the Original Planet of the Apes? And those actors are so influencial, Tolkien himself may have been influennced by them...
Plastic Squirrel posted on 15/1/2002 at 20:42
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Oh Mr. Huan, I said Ridley had never made an "ENTIRELY" bad movie, they all had saving graces, mostly his unerring sense of vision. Despite slogging through frankly awful plots he often manages to make a visually alluring piece so you have something to look at while you're really bored. My two cents worth of War Movies would have to be Platoon and Full Metal Jacket, just cos they're great.
Rosie posted on 15/1/2002 at 23:22
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As for war movies, I guess you could make good movies, based on war. I really liked Apocalypse Now, only because it wasn't THAT bloody. or was it? can't remember.
Plastic Squirrel posted on 16/1/2002 at 10:43
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"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning"
Have you seen the new Redux version yet?
Huan posted on 16/1/2002 at 21:58
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This is somewhat of subject just to answer Plastic; Yes saw the redux version of Apocalypse. Mmmmm- dificult to answer. I like the original - kinda elliptic storytelling in a strange violent horror dominated by the shadow of Kurtz and Jim Morrison!
Redux seems to try too hard to fill in the holes and explain the charcters; All the characters on the boat now have more to say and we understand them better. So Martin Sheen steals Duvals surf board - funny but who cares? The whoile French colonial scence (15 mins) is simply ridiculous and just stops the whole movie. Theres a little more Brado and I actually liked that. but overall I don't think the new added stuff has improved the movie; Coppolla is getting old and tried to explain too many things this time in case we didn't undertand the first time. Unfortunately if you see Redux first and then screen the original you'll never appreciate the power of the first version.
I must admit, that apart from Ridleys director version of Bladerunner and PEckingpoahs version of PAt Garret directors cuts are not necessarily better (expecially ALIENS and ABYSS) how awful
Sorry Grond - you can move this to a Tavern if you like.
:o Rosie posted on 17/1/2002 at 02:24
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Speaking of Francis Coppola, i saw the wierdest article the other day..
apparently, he's going to make a film about Lleyton Hewitt (yes the aussie tennis player) and if that wasn't strange enough, Will Smith is going to play Lleyton's character in the film??? and the movie will also have Harrison Ford and Cate Blanchett.
What the...??
See I spent the last two hours moving the above posts here from 'Aragorn' and already we are off topic, except it doesn't matter because this is a tavern. Big Smile Smilie

*Grondmaster orders a round for the house*

Took another 45 minutes to delete from the the 'Aragorn' postings that which I moved here. Smile Smilie

*Grondmaster orders another round for the house and heads on home to bed* [Edited on 17/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Thanks Huan. I was going to go and see the Redux at the pictures, but I won't bother now, though I never saw it on the big screen first time round (cos I wasn't born yet) so I might just to get full effect Coppola. I agree with you on the Director's cut thing. Ridley had to redo Bladerunner though cos the studio forced him to f*** with it so much first time round and totally screwed it up. Though when it comes to self-indulgent w*nkers of directors, I'd have to say that James Cameron wins hands down Big Smile Smilie.

I never heard of Lleyton Hewitt, so I couldn't possibly comment except to say that Coppola making a tennis movie sounds like a really bad move on his part.

Grondy, you work too hard, really, it wasn't that important that you had to do all that work, was it? Well done anyway, cos this is the most fun topic I've got into in a long time, and it would have been a shame to lose it. Thanks Mate! Smile Smilie Smile Smilie And mine's a triple Vodka.
Woh Plastic. First things first if you have never experienced Aprocalypse on a big screen you have to go to Redux - even if I didn't apprecaite it. Just to see the opeing with the doors on wide screen and the cinematography is unbelievalbe - and I'm not talking about LoTR stuff - this is what photo directors can do. Colour, grain, contrast, music track wow. Go and see it.
Whats interesting about director's cuts is that Ridley cut MORE out on his cut than was in the original. That took real b*lls. Getting rid of that silly voice over was the best thing.
Back to Coppolla - just seeing Martin Sheen doing in that mirror. Go its worth spending whatever a movie costs in yourpart of the world.
Okay then, I was gonna anyway, s'not bad on my 29" Nicam, but it ain't the same is it? Just hope my local cinema (who don't ever seem to think kevin Smith is commercially viable, the gits) think that it'll make enough money to put it on. Mad Smilie
And Ridley had the voice over and the happy ending forced on him by the studio who were worried that people were too d*mn stupid to know what was going on.
i dun think we ever have the Redux in Australia, well at any rate, i've never heard of it. i saw the movie when we were studying Heart of Darkness and had to keep looking for parallels and stuff so i didn't really pay that much attention to the cinematography . But i thought the movie captured the raw wilderness and savagery of Vietnam/Congo and the horror of Kurtz and his 'region of subtle horrors'.
Redux is alrady out in Zone 1 DVD so if its not released you can check it out.

By the way the best insight into this movie (along with reading Heart of Darkness) is too check out the documentary "HEart of darkness - The making off Apocalypse Now";

This docu-movie was shot on 16mm by Copolla's "wife" during the shoot. Unbeliveable. A real eyeopener and not one of the asceptic making of movies done by producers today to add onto a DVD suplement which includes nice interveiws with cast and crew saying how wonderful the director is! Geez C'mon guys give us a break.

Talking about war movies I just watched "The Harp of Burma" by Ken Ichigawa (Japan 1956). Now thats interesting. First Japanese war movie I've ever seen where the Japanese actually accept the fact that they were the agressors! interesting stporylmine, about a soldier who escaping thru Burma at the end of the war, bit by bit is converted to Boudhism and becomes a Harp playing monk!
Redux? Whatsthat?
Grondy: you did one hell of a job here, but get yourself some free time, please! Smile Smilie Give this man a hobby! Big Smile Smilie
Bloody useless bloody cinema. S'not showing it, gonna have to rent it instead when it comes out. Gonna go see Vanilla Sky instead, or Mullholland Drive, whichever comes out first.
Dear lord! You /liked/ Vanilla Sky?! You just wrecked my image of you! Blech!

Did you see the original?
Redus is the added title to Apocalypse Now to indicate its the new directors cut with 3/4 hr or so extra footage - new copy, new color grading, new audio mix - worth the visit

Please plastic don't even put Vanilla and Mulholland in the same breath or sentence any more. Mulholland is wonderful - although thats probalby not the appropriate word - its closer to Kurtz "the horror".
A must go see- sort of a follow up to Lost highway - N 1 really scary (not Scream stuff) movie.
Enjoy
I haven't seen Vanilla Sky yet, so I can't say if I liked it or not! But I've heard good things about it, and I really want to see the opening "empty manhattan" sequence. Haven't seen the original yet either, sorry. And I just love Cameron Crowe, that's why I'm going to see it. Sorry again.
Going to go see Mullholland for the same reason, it's by a guy I love, Lynch. That's all, I just like Movies, i'm no critic or anything.
But i'm deeply lazy and cannot be arsed to read subtitles! And I hate dubbing, so i try not to watch too many foreign films unless they're exceptional. Might wait for video then....