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Woofedy Woof! lol. j/k. i think they have a language. kinda like 101 Dalmations when Pongo and Perdita start the gossip chain! So i guess[to me] they have a language. all animals have a language, we just dont know it and dont understand it.
I think the same. It`s wierd how some dogs e.t.c can understand some of what we say, but, we don`t understand anything what they say. I get confused. Big Laugh Smilie
Quite why this thread was started in Website General Discussion and not a Tavern, I don't know, hence it's been moved.

Similar to ourselves, dogs have a language that is universal and which can be understood by other dogs throughout the world. It is a language they are born with and instictively use and understand, just as humans do with ours.

The language I am talking about is of course body language, a means of comunication that is often overlooked, even though it is used almost everytime two people or two dogs, or any other animal, encounter each other.

As for dogs understanding their masters... I think they learn certain commands which they recognise, but often more important than the actual word is the tone of voice it is delivered in.

[Edited on 18/3/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
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As for dogs understanding their masters... I think they learn certain commands which they recognise, but often more important than the actual word is the tone of voice it is delivered in.


I wish mine would, well I think he understands it, he just doesn't really care. I think the ears raised quizzical look means, "If you wanted the stick back so badly why did you throw it away in the first place?" and many other things, like "but I thought it was MY chocolate cake!" and this morning it meant "But if the dear little girl really wanted those biscuits she wouldn't have hidden them under her bad where nobody could find them except me, for my nose is supreme, and these are MY biscuits now."
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"If you wanted the stick so badly why did you throw it away in the first place?"

Lol, cute Plastic. I dont have a dog, but i did, and he bit my upper lip. dumb dog, i always hated him, but i guess there he was saying "Hey, dont show your fangs at me or il..." Big Smile Smilie
My Guinea Pigs have language, squeak means feed me, squeaking repeatedly whilst you open the fridge means I know you're in the fridge just bring me the food, Purring means I'm randy I'm going to hump something, Nutting means stroke me harder I like that, licking you means I like you, now feed me something!

My Rabbit however, grunting means I'm going to attack you, grunting whilst charging at you means I am attacking you, humping my dads arm means I'm a confused female rabbit, carrying a pair of socks around for a week means I'm a stupid rabbit who want's babies so badly I'm mothering a pair of socks, Bouncing on the floor/couch, I'm stupid, Inspecting a plate means is there anything like yorkshire puddings on there I can steal and run behind the couch to eat!
Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie

Okay, that was disgusting crossed with funny! Big Laugh Smilie HUMPING YOUR DADS ARM!!! Big Laugh Smilie Cool! Big Laugh Smilie That would have been funny to watch, is what I mean.

My dog sleeps most of the time, so, he doesn`t have many actions. Boring Smilie Dead Smilie

[Edited on 19/3/2003 by Sheryl]
, "If you wanted the stick back so badly why did you throw it away in the first place?" hghahahahaha Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie Big Laugh Smilie I liked that one Mr. Squirrel......hahahahhaa
Luckily, for you Plastic, your jokes actually make sense. Big Laugh Smilie A prime example, all the jokes you`ve ever told. Big Laugh Smilie
Yes, dog language is universal. Puppies learn many aspects of that language from their mother when very young, hence a puppy who is hand reared and not with other dogs whilst young can grow up with communication problems and behavioural problems.

Dogs do communicate mainly by body language. They notice human body language that even that human doesn't notice.
When learning commands, a dog learns to associate a particular sound with praise if it performs a certain action. It doesn't know the sound as an actual word with a meaning like we do.
I get our Jess to fetch the leads and stuff when we are going for a walk. She gets no vocal commands. I might point to where the leads are and she goes to get them.
When I want them to stand for their grooming, it's all as subtle as to body positioning. It's so subtle, I can't even describe what I do and the dogs stand sidewards from me so that I can groom them. They know straight away. I can tilt my head to the side and they roll over so that I can comb their bellies. I don't have to say a word to them.

Dogs communicate mainly with body language in the wild so it is more effective when training them. I do use vocal commands but I tend to convert over to silent body signals as the dog comes to learn the new task.

Dogs are clever in that they can learn the differences between their own language and ours. For example, if another dog shows it's teeth at them, it is showing aggression, whereas if a person shows their teeth at them, they are smiling which is a friendly gesture. Dogs often learn to smile back. A couple of my own dogs have tried it on occasion, it looks so odd.
I can smile at my dogs and they put their ears down and wag their tails at me in response. If another dog showed it's teeth at them, they would react aggressively in response. Dogs are really clever when figuring us out. It's humans who are normally the ignorant one when it comes to dog language. I'm so glad that I understand my dogs, it means I can make myself more understood by them and you can get anything you want out of them once that happens.
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Lol, cute Plastic. I dont have a dog, but i did, and he bit my upper lip. dumb dog, i always hated him, but i guess there he was saying "Hey, dont show your fangs at me or il..."
No, what he was saying was, "Get your face out of my food dish! If you are hungry go get your own dish."

My dad got his nose bit for teasing our dog over the dog's food.
Yea...i guess your right, but he didnt have any food. It was outside. i went out to give him some love, and what do i get? bitten. wow, isnt he a nice, loving, loyal dog?
Yea, I guess your right... I didn't think much about this when I wrote it, I was just being bored (as usual)!

Here's another question... Do ducks sneeze?
OK! My kinda question. I had 2 ducks when i was little, so i guess i would know a lot about them. Well, my duck, Peepers, died, and my brothers duck, Norvegord[yeayeayea. i have a TOTALLY messed up brother. Hes a Tolkien fan too. and he is totally starting to get on my nerves. AnYway], well, hes still alive, but hes eeeeeeeeevil i tell you, Evil! Wink Smilie In all my years with those stinky things, i did learn one thing. They DONT sneeze. Never. they take a dump!? they squak!? they get really annoying when they never shut up!? but they never sneeze. Wow, never get ducks. they can be cute when they are small, but dont be decieved by their first appearence.
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Luckily, for you Plastic, your jokes actually make sense. Big Laugh Smilie A prime example, all the jokes you`ve ever told. Big Laugh Smilie


Could you explain this to my Girlfriend and all the guys in the pub who stare at me blankly after I've just created another fantastically funny and intellectually valid witticism?

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When learning commands, a dog learns to associate a particular sound with praise if it performs a certain action. It doesn't know the sound as an actual word with a meaning like we do.


Is that why my dog, being a rescue dog, is so very very confused?

Could you explain this to my Girlfriend and all the guys in the pub who stare at me blankly after I've just created another fantastically funny and intellectually valid witticism?

I would if I could.
I had two ducks; Cheese and Quackers
Plastic squirrel! I don't think your dog is confused at all. He could still learn things. Our Mist is nearly 11 years old now and can still learn new tricks, even complexed ones as long as they aren't too physically demanding. That saying about not being able to teach an old dog new tricks is a load of codswallop.
The real question you should be asking is whether you know how to teach him. Thats normally the only thing that stops dogs from learning new things. The fact that their owners don't know how to teach them.
But more to the point, don't bother to rteach him new tricks, let your dogs own character develop and you will be much happier. I have never taught any of my pets trick's and all of them have developed their own eccentricties and I wouldn't change that for anything, even noughty Sprouty attacing me everytime I go near my dad!
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i had two ducks; Cheese and Quakers

LOL! cute, Big Laugh Smilie Big Smile Smilie Peepers and Norvegord...I thought he was going to name his Quakers but NOooo...he had to name it Norvegord. o well.
Both of my dogs are trained but that doesn't mean they don't have their own characters. Their characters show through even more now that I understand them better and they know how to express it better too.

It's wrong not to train them. All dogs should know basic obedience for their sakes, their owners sakes and the sakes of anybody they encounter.
Mine are border collies which need training. They have to have a job to do or they go mental.

Sorry Ross but I'm strongly against what you said in your last post. No dog should be left untrained and they enjoy learning things. Doesn't affect character in the slightest.
Oh I teach him stuff, he learns it and then does it when he feels it is appropriate rather than when I do. He's 12 and a half now, and the most stubborn animal you'll ever meet. If I'm actually there, he's generally quite good, but if you put him with somebody else for a bit, he'll push them as far as he possibly can.
After 5 years with him, I've nearly got him to STAY now, but only very occassionally... Wink Smilie

And I often get the impression that he's laughing at me....
LOL, yeah. Dogs are like kids. It doesn't take them long to realise that even though they have to behave for you, that doesn't meant they have to behave for others.

Mine are like that. They will test people out to see whether they have what it takes to control them. Mist is particularly good at manipulating anyone and anything to her advantage. It's what I love about them. Their rebellious streak.

I've had Mist since she was a pup. Got her as a late birthday present off my dad just after I turned 13 so she's been with me all way through my teenage years and longer. Jess, Mists daugter, was born when I was 14 and a half so she's been with me a good deal of time too. They are my best friends.
I love my dogs, but I am lousy at training them. The only thing I really need to teach my 2 smaller dogs is not to go under the fence and run all over the neighborhood.

Jett will get out, but does not go far, and the moment that you call him, he comes right back.

No'L on the other hand is horrible to get back, and I am so scared that she is going to get hit by a car. Yesterday, was the worst, because it was such a beautiful day. She wanted to go exploring. It took me, my son and a neighbor of mine to catch her 4 blocks away.

Today, she has not gone outside at all unless I have had her on a leash. The only problem with that is I have a lot of neck problem, and any jerky movments can cause it to act up. To say the least I am not very happy with little No'L.

Other than that my 3 are very well behaved, and I am quite impressed with Miss Nala, she is a huge dog and could just leap over our fence if she really wanted to get out. But she just watches the other 2 and then barks at them to let me know they are not where they are suppose to be. I have a tattle-tale for a dog.

All three have such expressive faces and you can almost tell exactly what they are thinking sometimes.

If you are eating Jett will just sit there and stare at you until you give him some. He never gets pushy or tries to steal anything. It really is very sweet. No'L is still trying to learn that, but she is getting better about it every day. Nala will also wait for a while, but not near as long as Jett.

Speaking of dogs, Jett is sitting at my feet as I typing this, and just put his head in my lap. Such a good puppy. (He is not really a puppy, but.... I can't help calling him that. We are guessing that he is about 5 years old)

Well, I guess I have rambled enough in this thread. I just love my animals so much I could go on and on about them. I hope this was not too boring.
AWWWWW - Mellie, that is sooooo cute.

On thting i know is that dogs and cats and different animals do have different languages, 'cause in English, dogs , but in French , they . Big Laugh Smilie

Anyways- what Mellie said about her dogs made me think of my cat,,, When ppl ask, [have you trained your cat?(or dog)], we would answer that our cat trained us! He comes, sits infront of the table, and we give him some food(our food), or, we are cooking, he miawws, and we give him a little piece of something,,, sorta same thing with everyone, i'm guessing Wink Smilie - our cat trained us!

Wiggle Smilie
Lol. I agree that our animals teach us new stuff a lot. When I lived on a farm in England, we had 10 dogs. We still have one today that we brought back with us to America, but we had to get rid of the others.
Ahji was just our old companion, not of much use though. He got his name because he used to chase the cows around and we'd yell "come" in all the languages we could think of, until he responded to the Arabic "ahji". We gave him to my grandma. He died the other day at the old age of 19.
Ginger was the same way, but she was amazingly smart. One time my baby brother Austen nearly rolled off the couch and she held him up and barked or help. We had to have her put down because of a brain tumor.
Reo and Roscoe were nightmares. Anything they could get their paws on they ate or chewed up. I have no idea how many chicken died due to them! Wink Smilie
Doobey 1 was a great dog. He used to watch the herds for us. He died because the neighbor dog (a rotweiler) bit his throat. Ironically, that rotweiler had 3 puppies, one of which we kept.
Doobey 2 was also a great dog. He was a very loving shy dog. He also died of another dog attacking him.
Buster and Chloe were beagles/ chows. They loved to have fun, and used to chase adders into our house so that they could attack them. Buster now belongs to my grandma, and Chloe went to a seeing eye dog training place.
Keeper we found under a bridge. We just opened up the door to the car and she jumped in like we owned her already. She's the rotweiler, and my uncle has her now.
Sophie was our border collie, and was born a year after me, so she's 13 and I'm 14. I love her with all my heart, and there's not a place I go without her. She's blind, and deaf in one ear, but she's still very funny. I think she's a human in a dog's body sometimes. We brought her to America with us.
I work at an animal rescue leage every other Saturday. Anything I can do to help the animals and world. Wink Smilie The other day I sold a cute little jack russel terrier to a wonderful family. Her name was Tootsie, and she was 6. I felt like a part of me was going with her.
Whether we like it or not, dogs are our best friends, and will be through thick and thin. Sometimes I wish humans were as loyal and loving as my Sophie....
Yes, I know how you feel. Our Jess's grandma (Also called Jess, we named young Jess after her) was only a few months younger than me. I didn't know what life was like without her. I was gutted when her front legs went and we had to have her put down. I got our Mist just under a month later though.

Melliot!
Did you know that by giving food to your dog when you are eating, you are making it look like you are submitting your food to him? In a wild wolf pack, the pack leader would not allow the subordinates to eat until he has finished. He certainly wouldn't throw them bits. When you give bits of food to them, they see it as you giving up your food to them as a subordinate wolf would if a higher ranking member approached and wanted their food.
Dogs can cause a real problem when they are accidentally given the role of pack leader by their owners who aren't aware. Just thought it might be interesting for you to know. Smile Smilie

Also, I know how you feel when your dogs run off. Mine don't run off but our Mist used to chase moving cars and try to attack them when she was not much more than a pup. I don't know why but she was a right sod for it. Fortunately, she just stopped doing it on her own.
Well the dogs have been outside twice this morning and have not gotten out. I am very pleased with both of them.

Oh and Luthien, I don't feed them until I am full, and about ready to take my plate back to the kitchen. They are usually very good and they will wait. Jett is the best. The animal we have the most problems with is our cat Lucky. His favorite is chicken. He will jump on you, claw you or even nip at you if you have chicken. What is ironic is that he does not do any of that for fish or seafood or anything else, just chicken.

One time Lucky even went for a live rooster. He did not get the rooster but he didn't get hurt too badly. He only had 2 inches of fur ripped from his tail. I have heard roosters are very mean and it could have been much worse. I am a city girl, so I really don't know.
Oh yes, roosters can put up quite a fight when needs be. They wouldn't be a match for some larger, more aggressive dogs but for the ones who don't really know how to despatch prey, they can be a bit daunting when they get going.

You know many dogs wouldn't even know what to do with a cat if they caught it. They just like chasing them.
We had a cat who went crazy for bacon when I was a lad, then there was my last cat who turned up her nose at bacon, so I had to give it up. The bacon, not the cat, as the nitrates aren't good for me either.

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You know many dogs wouldn't even know what to do with a cat if they caught it. They just like chasing them.
And once a cat stands, raises its hackles, spits in the dogs eye, and sinks a claw into the dog's nose, the average dog will give up the practice of cat chasing. Poor dumb critters, some of them never learn; same thing with porcupines. Shocked Elf Smilie
"Did you know that by giving food to your dog when you are eating, you are making it look like you are submitting your food to him? In a wild wolf pack, the pack leader would not allow the subordinates to eat until he has finished. He certainly wouldn't throw them bits. When you give bits of food to them, they see it as you giving up your food to them as a subordinate wolf would if a higher ranking member approached and wanted their food.
Dogs can cause a real problem when they are accidentally given the role of pack leader by their owners who aren't aware. Just thought it might be interesting for you to know. Smile Smilie"
Luthien79 I have to disagree with you there.
I was brought up to believe that you should feed the animals first, then yourself. What kind of human feeds himself, then worries about his pets? It's like stuffing your face in front of your child and then feeding it. That's my view anyway.
Andrea and Luthien,

We always make sure that the animals have full bowls of food before we sit down, the people food we give them are like desert to us. They only get a few bites each and if it is chicken Lucky gets the most.

What is hilarious is when Jett or Lucky back away and let someone else have the extra food first. We very seldom have a disagreement at all. Our only problems happen if someone gets woken up suddenly.

Most of the time it is pretty peaceful.


Mellie.
Lol, true true! Except my dog is always first and never lets another dog between her and her food! And my dog sleeps like a rock, and snores like a jetplane with ashma!!! Big Smile Smilie Wink Smilie
LOL that sounds like my cat Sheba!!! She snores soooooo loudly. My other cat Stray snores but not near a bad a Sheba Ann does.
I've found the best way to jkeep my dog under control foodwise, is to feed him whenever I feel like feeding him, thus I don't get whined at, he gets a whack in the face every time he tries to scrounge my food, and he gets what he's given when he's given it. Remember, he is YOUR dog, you are not HIS human. I refuse to be a slave to anyone who can smell that bad.
Andrea!
You obviously know little of dog behaviour then. Human standards do not apply to dogs. They are irrelevant to dogs.
If you feed you dog before you eat yourself, it makes them think they are higher rankingn than you and that can cause serious behavioural problems. Ask any dog behaviourist. They will tell you.
What you said was a classic case of anthropomorphism. Even if you feed your dog before eating yourself, it won't stop them drooling at the table whilst you eat.
Feeding them after may seem unfair by human standards but dogs aren't humans are they? They are dogs which are domesticated wolves. They should be treat as such because they will never understand our human standards and morals. Doing these things only leads to confusion and in my experience, is more likely to cause problems for both you and them than stop them.
Remember, dogs are governed only by the cold, hard logic of the pack instinct.

Here is a quote from the book "Why does my dog? " by a leading UK behaviourist John Fisher.
This quote was in a section about how a modern lifestyle affects the behaviour of dogs and has increased the problems of dominance aggression by dogs towards their owners.

"Before the popularity of commercial petfoods, the dog used to be given the familes left-overs with perhaps a few butchers acraps mixed in. With what we now know about the nutritional requirements of dogs, this was probably a very poorly balanced diet. The point is, though, because we were feeding left-overs, the family would have to eat first for there to be any. Again without intending to do so, we demoted the dog. In a wolf pack, the highest ranking eat first and so get the richest pickings, thus ensuring the survival of the fittest."

[Edited on 25/3/2003 by Luthien79]
I can't argue with an expert, but Sigmund Freud said "Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate in their object-relations"
A dog is not "almost human", and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such. Inasmuch as ownership connotes the possession of a thing, or the eradication of an individual personality, I am not a dog owner, no. Much rather, to the extent that our relationship is characterized by humor, loyal companionship, spirit, and grace, my dog and I are grateful friends and partners.
And besides, it's more like you do not own a dog, the dog owns you
I think thats why I love spending so much time with my dogs. They don't let you down like people do.

Thats what I meant when I said dogs aren't governed by human standards. Our standards are often doubled anyway.
For example. It's ok for a dog to kill vermin like wild rats etc... but it if killed the pet rabbit, that would be different and they would be severely punished for it. Us humans should try learning from animals and we might get somewhere.

Dogs do have some similarities to humans in being sociable animals and having very different personalities etc... but their emotions are different. They don't suffer from jealousy, embarrassement, vindictiveness, don't sulk or hold grudges. Those things are a hinderance to humans, nevermind less intelligent animals being lumbered with them. They are better off without.

One of the best bits of advice I have for people who have just been upset and don't feel like talking to another person is to go talk to their dog. If they have one, that is. It works every time. Smile Smilie Underneath, humans crave the qualities that dogs possess.
"but their emotions are different. They don't suffer from jealousy, embarrassement, vindictiveness, don't sulk or hold grudges. Those things are a hinderance to humans, nevermind less intelligent animals being lumbered with them."
I think dogs feel jealousy for sure. My dog is obvisiously very jealous when I get home from volunteer work at the local shelter. She gives me this look like, "You volunteer to help them and not me!" And refuses to look at me for the rest of the day. Or when my grandma brings her dog over, I'll pet Maggie and say to my dog, "Nope I don't love you anymore Sophie!" And she sulks or bites Maggie.
No, thats wrong. You misinterpret her behaviour.

Here is another quote to explain from the book "Why does my dog" by John Fisher.

"Jealousy
This is an emotion perculiar to humans and, contrary to how it may seem, dogs are not affected in the same way. True, they often get their noses put out of joint by changes in the environment and react in strange ways which give the appearance of jealousy, but in fact it all has to do with how they percieve the pecking order".

In other words, if you are fussing one dog and another pushes in, apparently looking jealous, it does this to try and get your attention over the other dog but not because it is jealous. It does it as an indirect challenge over the other dog. In the wild, the more dominant a wolf in the pack, the more attention it can demand and the more favour it recieves from those higher than it. If it succeeds in getting your attention over the other dog, it has won the contests by gaining your favour over the other dog and such challenges are what establish the rank within a pack. If the most dominant dog is being fussed, a much more submissive dog wouldn't dare push in in the same way because the dominant dog might react agressively. I've seen this happen many times.

Dog behaviour may be different to our but it is very interesting, particularly if you own a dog because it enables you to see them in a totally different light and understand them in a way you never did before. It also enables you to make yourself more understandable to them.

Also, your dog isn't sulking, she is displaying behaviour which shows her acceptance of your decision. thats how dogs communicate with each other. You shouldn't assume that because it looks like how a human sulks, it is sulking. Dogs don't sulk.

Here is another quote from the same book.

"Anthropomorphism
This means attributing human form or personality to animals, and no book about dogs would be complete without using this word at least once. Of all the domestic pets, the dog is the one that is granted human status and powers of reasoning. I know that cat owners treat their cats like a child substitute, but the cat has an aloofness that allows it to rise above all of this and so, deep down, we still respect it as a cat. Not so the dog: the humans around it become mummies and daddies, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunties, and we take great pains not to hurt the dog's feelings. Dogs are extremely clever at exploiting this relationship, by exhibiting body postures and facial expressions that convince us that they are sulking and upset about what we have done or said. This further adds to our beliefs that they have the same reasoning powers as ourselves.
They don't of course, they are dogs - just as cats are cats. Dogs don't sulk, they show respect by not getting in your way. They don't get excited because it's Christmas morning and there are lots of presents under the tree for them, they just react to the general air of goodwill, the fun and the change in the normal routine. But the thing that upsets many of my clients is to be told that their dog does not come to them for a cuddle when they are watching TV because it loves them so much, it does it to demand attention."

So there you have it. Your dog doesn't sulk. I wouldn't be upset about it. Your dog will still love you and respect you, even more so if you understand her for what she is.


Lol, okay, I give. But back to my first question about dog languages, does anyone think that is at all possible? Not counting body language, because humans do that too, yet we have different languages.
Not really. Dogs communicate mainly by body language anyway. Apart from dogs who bark exessively because of loneliness or boredom, dogs are quiet most of the time unlike us. If they make any sounds it is accompanied by strong body language.
We have thousands of words we use in our language. Theirs is restricted to just a smaller number of certain sounds like bark, growl, whine, howl, and other silly groaning noises that dogs sometimes make when they are happy, playing or rolling. These sounds only have limited meanings to them. They can't hold complexed conversations like us, they don't need to.
If you got a dog from the UK and placed it front of a dog from Australia, they would still understand each other perfectly.
A lot more goes off in their body language, but again, this is universal.