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Sounds fascinating Ungoliant.

Im afraid my travel experiences are somewhat limited. The only real holliday I ever went on was to Tasmania. Lovely place to relax, time seems to flow more slowly there and nobody is in a hurry. Shops don't open until 10.00 and every second shop sells delightful wooden handcrafts.

I can also recommend the jet boats - lots of fun! and Port Arthur. I actually visited PA before the massacre and had a cuppa in the Broad Arrow Cafe. Balled my eyes out for all those innocents, but was glad to have visited the place.

Cradle Mountain was where I had my first (and only) experience with snow. Funny stuff. I had always assumed that it would be icy, not powdery. Too cold to make a snowman, but I did throw a few snowballs at my then husband.

Cataract Gorge was beautiful. I think when I am rich and retired I will buy a house overlooking it.

Hope I am not boring you all too much. Has anyone visited Australia, who is not a resident?

Closest I've had to a holiday in the last 4 years was a quick two day trip back home to Guildford to see my old granny last year.
I was hoping this was gonna be about Floyd Sad Smilie
Allyssa & Plastic - some of the best & most interesting holidays are always 'at home'. It's fun to explore your national treasures and visit places & people you've only read about in the newspapers. And it doesn't have to be anywhere famous - Once, when I was 14, I visited a friend who took me to suburban Ealing (north London), where we spent a perfectly idyllic weekend playing mini-golf, gobbling down chocolate eclairs, chatting up older men to get them to buy us six-packs, smoking Dunhills and walking barefoot along a tiny stream at Pittshanger Park. It was great!

Allyssa - btw, what happened at Port Arthur? Never been to Australia I'm afraid.
I visited Ireland for two weeks last year. Beautiful place. I thought where I lived was green (and it is compared to the CA desert where I grew up) but Ireland is *green*. I found them surprisingly fond of Americans (which I didn't get in my visits to England or Holland) and they even have monuments to Americans - like JFK! I visited New Grange - and I must say I *felt* it was sacred ground, but couldn't figure out why - but my friend (who's rather agnostic) couldn't help but admitting she felt the same.

Okay - if you ever want to visit Texas come during the rodeo. There is nothing like a *live* rodeo (and the Livestock show is surprisingly unsmelly!). If you have seen roping or bronco busting on t.v. and didn't like it, yyou are just like me! But once I went to the Rodeo, all that changed! We make a Pilgrimage every year - it is fabulous. And there's no where better to see a Rodeo than Houston! (BTW, we say Styx in concert at out last Rodeo and they were *FABULOUS* - wish I had seen them 20 years ago! Last year Duran Duran started their tour at the Houston Rodeo - does seem a little odd, but... they too were fabulous - still look pretty good for geezers!)[Edited on 5/3/2002 by swampfaye]
That's interesting - I've always thought of Texas as a desert & California as green! So it's quite the opposite, eh? So when's the rodeo then - summertime?

The one thing that I'd like to do in the States is to spend a few weeks at any Native American reservation & learn a bit about their culture/history/way of life. I've always been fascinated by them...my cousin spent 3 months on a reservation once. She said it was the most interesting, fulfilling and moving experience she's ever had.
Styx were fabulous? Now there's a turn up for the books....Wink Smilie
"I'm Sailing away........"
That was Styx? The same one that Cartman sang on the way to the hospital? Never knew that...
I thought the Port Arthur Massacre would have made the international papers.

About 5 (?) years ago now, a very disturbed man called Martin Bryant went bezerk with shot gun at the tourist attraction of Port Arthur.

He killed a lot of people. A memorial has been erected for them, and some people ask if it is a war memorial, because so many names are listed.

Bryant marched into the Cafe at the attraction and just blew almost everyone away. He even shot people groaning on the ground, to make sure they were dead.

At the entrance, a mother and her three little girls were just arriving. Bryant shot the mother and two of the girls dead on the spot. The youngest (about 6 I think) ran and hid behind a tree, so Bryant chased her and shot her where she was hiding.

A bus full of tourists was terrorised, I think some of them lived.

Some people survived by hiding inside one of the historic buildings. Others were lucky to be on a boat tour and were safe.

When horror like this happens in your own country, it remains engraved upon your soul. There may not have been as many deaths as in New York more recently, but imagining the terror those victims (especially the children) must have experienced always brings tears to my eyes. I think the mention of Port Arthur to any Australian will always trigger pangs of deep sorrow.

Sorry if this has put a dampener on your otherwise cheerful thread. Perhaps Grondy would like to move it to somewhere he feels more appropriate?
Sad Smilie

Sorry if my question brought up painful memories for you, Allyssa. I don't think I've heard of it, sorry. And since I have a knack of saying the wrong things at the wrong time, like Merry, I'd better shut up now.
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But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.
Sad Smilie The Port Arthur Massacre was a very sad event due to the loss of life. And because of it, the Australians have lost a little more of their freedom, as all their long guns have now been outlawed, just like their handguns were before. We in America are also loosing some of our freedoms, due to September 11, these having to due with privacy and civil rights. Sad Smilie

On a happier note, a weekend spent in Ronda (about 50 k. north of Marbella) in the mountains of southern Spain was much fun. I have visited there on three occasions each separated by about five years. The neatest attraction was the old Roman bridge which spaned the deep gorge and still remained strong enough for traffic. The last time I was there the gaol inside the upper part of the bridge had been converted to a restaurant. They also have a working bullfight arena dating back to the time of Columbus, and a magnificent cathedral. I also noticed the people of Spain were happier on my last trip (1977), as old wozzname had died, and they no longer were subject to his dictatorship. Sangaree (Sangria) anyone? Big Smile Smilie
I did have this other holliday once. Went on a cabin cruiser boat and spent a week cruising around Lakes Entrance. LE is a collection of natural lakes in eastern Victoria, that empty into the ocean. The famous Ninty Mile Beach is there too. If you've never heard of it, it is a beach ninty miles long (no kidding) that is only accessable by boat. It is beautifully unspoilt as a result and my children adored playing in ocean water for the first time and playing in the sand. Wonderful experience. Thoroughly recommend it -- opps I hope I'm not sounding like a travel advertisment.
So you liked Ronda, Grondy? Me too! And the sight of the Mediterranean Sea from the mountains on the road from Marbella to Ronda! It seemed so small, like a deep blue pool and these high snow-clad Atlas mountains on the African side... and the Rock of Gibraltar like a small pebble down there...
Southeast Texas is definitely green: swamps bayous and rivers. And I lived in Southern California: ie. the Mojave desert. Parts of Texas are dry and dusty, but not a desert.

Rodeo is in spring. Dennis deYoung's son sang Sailing away for his father - he's a very good substitute! And guns .. well - here in Texas gun racks in your truck are still a very popular item and all the banks have "please leave your guns in your car" kinda stickers because we have aconceal carry law. You wonder why TExans are polite? You'd be polite too if you thought your neighbor had an ot six Smile Smilie[Edited on 7/3/2002 by swampfaye]
No way, I got attacked by a dog by that very bridge in Ronda when I was 9. Very pretty place though.
And owning a gun should definitely NOT be a constitutional right for anyone, okay?
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And owning a gun should definitely NOT be a constitutional right for anyone, okay?

Why not?

Lakes Entrance & Ninety Mile Beach sound fabulous Allyssa. Any sharks there? Talking about Texas, I just saw a documentary on barbeques & steaks... I've forgotten how big American steaks are. *whistles*

I used to dream of going on a cycling holiday through France, like Simone de Beauvior did in the 30s, and eat wild berries & cheese, sample local wines and sleep on the roof of a local tavern on clear starry nights. And enjoy the fresh air. Ahhhhhhhhh. Never found anyone else who wanted to come along though...Sad Smilie
Because guns are designed for just one thing, killing people, whatever any tosser claims about using them for sport etc. You can have just as good sport with a BB gun, and it don't kill nothing. If no-one had a gun, then none of these massacres would take place, so things would be better, yeah?
Thus, you would not need guns for self defence either if nobody else could happily have one as part of the constitution. Take self-defence classes if you need to feel safe, don't go shooting people, it's not clever.
(I probably could have made a more coherent argument but I'm in a hurry)
Ungoliant,
I'm ready to join that bicycle holidays in France!
Not this summer, though...
Eryan and Ungoliant, can I come too? Always wanted to visit France. Will have to get a bike with two kiddie seats on the back though.....
Yeah great traveling - although most of mine hasn't exactly been "holiday" oriented.

Last travel was Taurus mountains in Turkey and then over to the East towards the Turkish Syrian border (Kurdistan for want of a better word) What a magnificent place.

Also spent some time in and around St Petersburg and surrounding country - white nights on the Neva drinking shoe polish!

Sinai Deesrt Sharm El Sheikh, and Eilat - great places but not exactly holidays! Lebanon fantastic

Hey all you Star Wars fans - visit Tattoinne - its in South Tunisian Desert. Well worth a walkabout

Erythrea - wowo! don't have words for that

Ah green old Ireland - best beachs in the World (except maybe New Zealand!)

Next stop hopefully Mongolia.

Plastic - totally agree -let get rid of those guns. I've given up discussing this with our American friends - their whole culture/politics and constitution is based on the individaul right to stake out his land and defend it! Its completely intwined in he collective consciousness of the country.

Yes guys, but the Far West ended 90 years ago and look what it did to the American Indians. Owning a gun doesn't make you freer it just makes you more dangerous. Now if you think ou need a gun to make your point, well whats the point in dialogue; civilised countries invent laws to try to regulate society instead of guns. Then again dialogue is not in the American constitution - they call it freedom to say whatever you want - just means several million people shouting at the same time thinking they're all right. So now and again yye just have to shoot of a few rouinds to make sure someone shuts up and listens to ye..

What I don't understand Grondy on the gun issue is apart from respecting a so called right to bear arms, what does owning and using a gun do for a citizen! -I 've used fire arms so I'm not talking about professional use or hunting)

Don't want to sound agressive but the six shooter and Winchester is a really unique American thing which the rest of us don't quite understand.

Sorry for turning your topic around to another issue Golly. (If its a constitutional right to hold firearms, why not armored vehicles, biological weapons, air to sea missiles, ballistic weapons. Hell we should just all have a complete arsenal at home)
Grondy - I do completely agree that since Sept 11 our civil rights and human rights will be more and more trampled upon. But I don't think owning a gun has much to do with it.
Well, this may seem simplistic; however, one of the things our founding fathers were worried about was a centralized government usurping so much power from the people that the people might need to rise up again to throw the rascals out in order to regain their freedom, Thomas Jefferson was big on this. If the people were disarmed there was no way in creation (or hell) that they could succeed. Sad Smilie

Our government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. When the multi-national corporations gained the right of citizenship and now own the legislative and executive branches of our government, the people come out sucking hind teat. If it gets much worse, the people will either roll over and die, having given up all our freedom in the name of safety/patriotism, or the true patriots will rise up again and retake this once proud land. God bless The United States of America.* Smile Smilie

*Of course the latter comment doesn't mean that God should do other than that for any other nation or people of the world, it is just the ending our politicians have been adding to their speeches for domestic publication and as the preceding paragraph started sounding like political rhetoric I decided to tag it on. Big Smile Smilie

Anyway, back to what Golly was on about, my fondest holiday memory right at the moment is sitting in a bar on the beach in Paphos (Cyprus) sucking back a whole load of local lager and tequila sunrises, smoking many packets of local (chest rippingly strong) ciggies, and watching the sun go down (and then come back up again) and leaving my then girlfriend back at the villa to whinge at someone else. way back in 1993, the last foreign holiday I ever managed.
I've been to Italy with school (only just returned last week), and that was an amazing trip. We visited Pisa, Rome, Florence, and Venice. We had so much fun, you can't imagine! I remembered one day we couldn't stop laughing, and we laughed for nearly 2 hours!! Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie Big Smile Smilie It really was great!
But the best holiday I ever had was the one I made last year. I went to Dublin for a week. I always wanted to go to Dublin, and last year I finally succeeded. It's a lovely city, and so much to see... I can recommend it to everyone! Cool Smilie
Hey Gang! Sound the Trumpets. Pound the Timbrels. One of Tommie's posts today really had some content rather than just tag-a-longs to increase her stats. :rolleyes :grin

(I don't really mind having to read through all of them, sometimes its fun, and I really like Tommy, so when Plastic and I take jabs at her, it is all in the spirit of friendship.) :wink Smile Smilie
Speak for yourself! :0


(Only kidding, he's right you know :grin )
I know. Very Big Grin Smilie
Ha Ha Ha Smilie Aren't they great, people?

[Edited on 20/4/2002 by TomBombadillo]
I know I shouldn't really post this on the PT forum and I don't know why I chose the thread. But just so you know the reason I haven't been around "as" much as usual. I split up with my girlfriend at the weekend *sob*. So at the moment I am not the most social of people and especially when it comes to the female variety.
I never get to do anything interesting over the summer. Every summer, for one week, my sisters and I go to our grandparents house for a week. The week of July 4th to be specific. Okay, so that can be interesting, but I have to go with my siblings. Also, we sometimes go to the beach. When we go to the beach, we sometimes go with my granny and all my aunts and uncles on my mom's side.
Sorry to hear that, Taz. Hope things work out ok for you.
Hey Taz, sorry to hear that.
If there is anything we can do for you, just let us know.
Taz mate, it'll be fine, just remember that all women are the spawn of Morgoth and must be treated as such. You'll be alright in the end. That reminds me, I've got a bird to dump...
Thanks, am meeting her tonight to see if we can resolve this. *Fingers crossed*.
Plastic? Sweetie? Shut up before I'm forced to hurt you.

Aw, I'm just joshin'.
Quote:
just remember that all women are the spawn of Morgoth and must be treated as such.


To be read by anyone except Plastic
That is such a despicable, chauvinistic attitude. I am shocked anyone can say such things this day and age. He wants burning!

For Plastic's eyes only
Yer, agree totally with you there, mate.
Quote:
just remember that all women are the spawn of Morgoth and must be treated as such.
And all this time I had thought that women were people too. Still, I don't think I will consider changing my previous belief. Very Big Grin Smilie
Very sorry to hear that Taz, hope things look better for you soon.
Quote:
That reminds me, I've got a bird to dump...

And you Plastic.
Danke, Grondy. You are a man of wisdom.

I sympathize with anyone who has ended a relationship recently (my SO and I broke up messily and with much pain a little over a year ago and I'm still not in any rush to jump back in the water). But no gender dissing, please. It's tacky and ya'll are much too cool for that.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, Taz (personally I've never found such advice helpful until long after I'd put myself back together). All I have are cliches and sympathy. But I do wish the best for you.

Plastic and Val- tsk, tsk, you cynics. You're young, healthy and living on a planet with billions of people. Surely you haven't given up on finding someone already? Think of all the billions of women you've never met. And some of them are cute and single.
Alright, I apologise for my comment, not ALL women are evil, just those who choose to take out huge amounts of credit in my name. I did try to get on with this one, but after only 3 days I am forced to admit that I have nothing in common with her and she bores me to death.
I'm sure somewhere out there there is a woman with a brain, I just have yet to find one.
Good luck Taz.
Quote:
I'm sure somewhere out there there is a woman with a brain, I just have yet to find one.

Shaking Head Smilie
This is an improvement on your last comment?!
Taz,
I havent been in here for a while, so I had no idea. I am so sorry. Very Sad Smilie ditto on gnampie's comment, even if we are of the female gender. We are not all bad, really!

It does, however, seem to me that all the nice men end up with the unpleasant women and the nice women fall for the looser b****ds. For example, I am nice but I always seem to attract the wrong men - my ex being a prime example Shaking Head Smilie



And as for you Plastic! And Valed..whatever! Yet to meet a woman with a brain?!!! You had better exclude the present company !!!!
So Angry Smilie *tapping foot expectantly

And to both of you - ditto Jehanne's advice!
Well it looks like we have broken up for good. Her mum evidentally will not allow her to see me anymore.

More info? See http://tazonline.org - This isn't the place for my groanings. I am supposed to be a nasty heartless webmaster afterall.
Quote:
Plastic and Val- tsk, tsk, you cynics. You're young, healthy and living on a planet with billions of people. Surely you haven't given up on finding someone already? Think of all the billions of women you've never met. And some of them are cute and single.

Quote:
And as for you Plastic! And Valed..whatever!

My apologies Jehanne and Allyssa. Just ribbing. Didn't mean to cause any offence.
To be honest, my life seems to be a string of failed relationships, but that's not something that really bothers me anymore. I can look back and admit most of the problems have been through my own doing (spending too much time either Roleplaying, on PCs, at work, down the pub etc etc...) It doesn't bother me because I have managed to stay friends with most of my ex-girlfriends (and wife) and have a lovely son plus a number of step-children. A lot of people become bitter when their relationships fail (and I suppose I did too once), but having found each split easier to deal with than the previous one, and knowing a lot of the blame falls on my own shoulders, I try to deal with the problem more positively.
Like Jehanne says, there are a lot of lovely single girls out there. Why stay with the same one forever?
When I was young I thought I would get married, have 2.2 kids and live happily ever after. I accept my life isn't going to be like that now, and to be honest I do quite like a change every few years (sorry if that comment has upset anyone - it's just the way I am).
I am currently seeing a beautiful girl who loves me to bits, and though I've no intention of splitting up with her, I have no illusions about the relationship lasting forever. I think I'm just a bachelor who happens to love women.


Sorry everyone, this is supposed to be a Tolkien site. Don't know where all of that lot came from.

As for you, Taz. I've read your link and can understand your pain and bitterness. I really hope what I've just said hasn't upset you, but without trying to jump on the cliche-wagon, things do get better. It is hard, and I think I've left a little bit of me with everyone I've been out with, but you must be positive. I know what you mean about your girlfriend's mother though; I've been in that situation too. I really hope your girl sees the light and things work out for you.

Again, I apologise if I've upset anyone with what I've said in the last few paragraphs. No offence meant.
Yes, reminds me of two great adages: The first being
Quote:
Time heals all wounds.
and the second is like unto it
Quote:
Time wounds all heels.
Note: The above is not meant to apply to anyone personally unless the shoe fits? Very Big Grin Smilie
Wouldn't that be if the shoe *doesn't* fit?

Come on guys, cheer up! Things have to look better at some point, and if they don't you must be looking in the wrong direction. I read your link Taz and hope you feel alot better as soon as possible.
Taz,

I would just like to re-iterate that not all women are bad, just a few who give the rest of us a bad name.

No offence to Claire, I am sure she is a lovely girl, but if she lets her mother tell her who she can and cant see, she just needs to grow up a bit. And a lot of mothers are very possessive of their children. It is quite common, especially if they are not in a relationship themselves. A sad and unfortunate situation all round.

For the record, I think Claire has a better friend in you than in her family, she just cant see it.
Okay, once again I haven't made myself terribly clear have I? Technically, I haven't "met" any of you lovely women on here have I? So you are indeed the right sort of intelligent decent females that I would quite like to meet. However, living down here in deepest darkest Devon with all it's inbreeding and dark stupidity, any women who happen to show the least sign of intelligence tend to move away very quickly having got fed up of being accosted by equally stupid men. Hence I keep meeting braindead women who's idea of culture stretches as far as soap operas and no further, and who's idea of reading gos no further than the TV guide and those terrible women's magazines. I hope that makes things a little clearer and I'll get forgiven now?
And Taz mate, I haven't read your bit yet, but I'm going ot in a minute, however, you have my deepest sympathies I know how tough these things can be.
Oh alright then Plastic Shaking Head Smilie You are forgiven, as far as I am concerned. Angel Smilie

okay, to lighten things up - lets go post something silly. What does everyone think of Eldarion's ears?
Sorry Alyssa, to spoil your try to lighten things up but I've been out for a couple of days and I just want to add something.

Taz, have you tried to talk to her mother? I seems to me she is the problem. This will not be very easy, but if you and her mother don't solve your problem she will keep standing between you and Clair, even if Clair decides not to listen to her mother. If you talk to her mother, try to stay calm. This will be difficult because you both will be emotional, but try to understand her. She is probably panicking because of all the hurt is has herself. This does not justify her behaviour, but probably all this hurt made her bitter. Try to convince her you love Clair.

Alyssa, the effect a mother can have on her daughter can be very big. The only love you are ever sure of to get (normaly, but there are exceptions) is the love you get from your parents. Mostly parents mean support, comfort, safety. When they threaten to take that away from you, I can imagine you will do anything to prevent that. Emotional blackmail is a very powerfull thing, especially when it's been going on for some time.

Valed, what did you say? Why stay with the same one forever? Why not! It's not impossible. A relationship is something special between two people. Both have to believe in it, both have to work on it. When both decide to make it work no matter what, it can last a very very long time.

Love is something that just happens, you can't look for it. Don't look for certain characteristics in a person, like they have to be tall or muscled, good looking, tainted skin, good dancers or writers, ... After a failed relationship of four years, I said to myself my next boyfriend had to be at least two years older than myself and a good dancer. Well, my next boyfriend was almost four years younger, doesn't like dancing and I married him. After some months of grieve, I started looking for a next love at parties, pubs, trying new sports and even a French course. Do you know where I met my husband? In the computer room of university, where I was checking my mail and not at all looking for love. The most important thing is that you feel good with that person and that you can be yourself.
So good luck for all of you looking for the love of your live! It's not impossible, believe me. Just enjoy life as it comes and be yourself.

Taz, this will be a difficult time for you, no matter how things will turn out. I wish you a lot of strength and support from friends and family. All the best Taz!
Gnampie,
You are right about the mother's influence, of course. I am just speaking from observation. I have often seen single mothers with adult daughters drive away their daughters prospective partners. Not necessarily even being aware that they are doing it. It is almost as if they use their daughter as a substitute partner, because they are lonely.

I think it is quite likely Claire's mother does not even realise what she is doing. She may not be a bad person, just lonely and insecure. Being a single mum can make it hard to get a boyfriend, since a lot of guys are turned off by what they technically term as "baggage". Yeah, I know, if he was really a nice guy that wouldn't matter, but it is a bit like saying looks don't matter, when we all know that they do really. It is a lot easier to attract a mate if you are pretty/handsome!

Taz, gnampie could be right about talking to Claire's mum. It couldn't hurt to try could it? But I would wait a while if I were you, just to let her calm down a bit first.

Oh, Gnampie you know that love just happening thing? So if I try not to meet Mr Right, then I will meet him? Okay, I will try that. Animated Wink Smilie Wish me luck!
I will update you all soon on what has happened since. However talking to her Mother just isn't an option as Claire doesn't want me to.

Claire sent me an email telling me she still loved me and wanted to be with me, yet she won't answer my txt postBodys or phone calls.

However bad this sounds, I am going to give up as this is really starting to effect my mentle state and attitude on life.

Thanks all for your support, it is much apreciated.
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