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Could be either Taz. I personally don't like the thought of any girly I've ever been with ever being with anyone else, but then I have an ego roughly the size of Jupiter so I feel they should spend the rest of their lives pining for me. Love is whatever it is for you, it is different for everyone, and a very difficult thing to find in this world.
Speaking as one who is sure (just for once) that he has found it this time, I'm going to look smug now. I always used to have these dilemmas myself, love, or just good old fashioned lust? Frankly, I have both now. Which I think is a good thing, it's true what they say, when it turns up, you just know.
Taz,
since you have to ask this question, I would say that it is not love. The two most important factors in love or, in any relationship for that matter, are trust and commuincation. If you can't talk to the perosn or trust him/her there is no relationship. How you define those terms is up to you and the other person. Lust is a great aspect in a relationship, and if you are lucky enough to find both love and lust in one, never let it go.

Plastic is right love is different for every person, but when you find it, you will know with out having to ask a question like that. Something else you need to remember is that you need to be able to accept a person for whom they are, and not try to change them. People do grow and change over time, but if you try to change someone it always back fires. Also, be willing to accept the natural changes a person goes through in life. A relationship will work if both people change together. If they don't and they change in different directions it can cause a lot of problems.

A little jealousy is ok, but you can't let it control you. Getting jealous because s/he is chatting with someone else in a bar is not a good thing. Who cares? That person is leaving with you. Not someone they picked up. Chatting in a pub or some place else is one thing, but it is who you leave with that is important.

There is no real way to define love, but you will know when you find it. Btw, Plastic, I am glad you have found the love of your life. I have too. It is a great feeling, isn't it?

Taz, you are only 19. I am very confident that you will also find the love of your life some day. Between 19 and when I found Matthew, I had been engaged 3 times. But I never married those guys because there was just something missing. I could not put my finger on it. So I just kept waiting. The break ups were very difficult, but because of them I did find my true love.

Just take your time, and enjoy life. When you least expect it Love always finds you.
That is a tough one, Taz, and hard to put into words. It is sometimes easy for someone on the outside looking in to see the difference but very difficult when you are head over heels.
But here is my take on it, whether words of wisdom or lack thereof, I am not sure.
Love does not know jealousy. When you are in love, you love the whole person; you see the inner beauty and care little about the outer shell. When someone is flirting with your true love, neither of you will notice the flirtation as anything more than just socializing, because you both know and trust your love is true. When you love someone you do not try to change them, you accept that neither you nor he/she is perfect.
Obsession lends itself to jealousy really well. Think of it as owning an object that is very beautiful and so precious to you that you will not share it, however, you want people to know you own it. When obsessed, you want control. You want it all. There is no trust in obsession, only suspicion.
I agree with Squirrel that when it turns up, you just know it. You do not have to ask if it is true love; the person you want to spend the rest of you life with, you just know it is. True love must be reciprocated. It should not be seeing your lover chatting it up with admirers that hurts, it should be the empty feeling in your heart that hurts when you are apart.
True love knows hurt but it does not know anger. Obsession allows hurt to evolve into anger.
True love is not easy to find but it is amazing when you do.


[Edited on 14/10/2002 by Rednell]
Plastic, Mellie, Rednell congratulations on having experienced true love. I'm afraid, being cold heartless Val, I never have and to be honest I don't want to. It actually sounds horrible. I much prefer to be my own person and not have to worry about the "what ifs" that go hand in hand with love.

As for seeing ex-girlfriends with other men, it doesn't bother me at all. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If I move on from a relationship, I cannot expect them not to as well.

My suggestion to you, Taz, and others might rip me down for it, is to get out and find someone else you are attracted to. Don't worry about whether you have anything in common, or what things will be like six months down the line... just get in there, be honest with her about what you want, have a bit of fun, and if things aren't perfect after a few days find another one. I've just read what I've wrote and it sounds horrible, but I found it worked pretty good for me. The thing is, you have to be honest with them, otherwise you start leaving a trail of broken hearts behind you. (sorry to you ladies out there for refering to you as "thems")

The thing is, to heal you need to move on yourself. There will be things about your last girlfriend that you may never find in anyone else. That is because we are all unique. Rather than search for those traits in your next girlfriend, however, concentrate on the unique things she has to offer you instead. Even if you don't find true love straight away, you can have a lot of fun looking, and if you don't treat them badly, you might find some of them remain good friends even after you have split up.

Sorry if this post offends anyone. It is just my view based on my own experiences, and I fully accept (indeed expect) that everyone has views that differ from my own.
I did not find your post offensive at all, Val. That is the whole dating game in a nutshell. I am sure you are not the only one to experience this whole routine and to prefer to keep it this way. In fact, we all have at some point, I am sure. There is not one thing wrong with your attitude towards love, if, as you say, you are honest and treat the person right. Actually true love usually hits you when you are not looking for it anyway.
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I'm afraid, being cold heartless Val

You are anything but cold and heartless, Val.

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The thing is, to heal you need to move on yourself. There will be things about your last girlfriend that you may never find in anyone else. That is because we are all unique. Rather than search for those traits in your next girlfriend, however, concentrate on the unique things she has to offer you instead. Even if you don't find true love straight away, you can have a lot of fun looking, and if you don't treat them badly, you might find some of them remain good friends even after you have split

Actually this is good, practical advice.
Smoke Smilie
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Plastic, Mellie, Rednell congratulations on having experienced true love. I'm afraid, being cold heartless Val, I never have and to be honest I don't want to. It actually sounds horrible
Well from my own experience keep well away, there is no such thing as love only hurt. It's all bull***t mate!
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You are anything but cold and heartless, Val.
Good 'old Val, PT's own resident playboy Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Just thought I would throw in my two cents worth:

Love is caring for someone else more than you care for yourself. You love someone when you would willingly, and without hesitation, take a bullet to protect them.

True love for me? For my children, and once - a very long time ago - for a man.
Wow, I have to agree with pretty much everything that's been said, especially by Val, though personally I never gave a **** whether ot not I hurt anyone's feelings at the time I was doing such things (the story of my old "Lucky 7" is priceless, but not for these pages I fear). And if you remember nearly every post I made here in the past couple of years Taz, I thought just like you for a real long time. And like Melly, between the ages of 16 and 24 I got engaged 3 times. However this time I've learned my lesson, why bother complicating things with all that? I have no need for a new toaster just yet.
And Melly, you're right it is great!
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Good 'old Val, PT's own resident playboy
Hardly that, Taz Wink Smilie

My girlfriend had better not see this thread... she'd kill me (actually, she'd be very hurt, in fact wounded. I've been seeing her now for over two years. Does the fact that I'd hate to do that to her mean that I love her?)

Taz, old mate, why do you keep stirring up all these questions within me? Do I? Don't I? Do I actually care whether I do or don't? In a way I wish I did, because she loves me to bits. So did my wife until she sussed I didn't really love her the same.... AHHHH its all so complicated. Love's for girls, and that's that. Why can't they accept we prefer computers, boats and football? Smile Smilie
Ahhhhh... the world of the Martians Making Out Smilie and Venusians I Love You Smilie.
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My girlfriend had better not see this thread... she'd kill me (actually, she'd be very hurt, in fact wounded. I've been seeing her now for over two years. Does the fact that I'd hate to do that to her mean that I love her?)
Not necessarily, however, it does mean you are a conscientious caring person that holds her in high respect, and that's is just as a minimum. Love may also be hiding somewhere behind those feelings.
Love and obsession... they may be hopelessly intermixed! I experienced an impossible love for a man who wished simply to be my friend. It was obsession, because I felt alive and fully myself only in his presence, or at least when I was having news from him. Without him, the whole world was becoming grey and unimportant, and the life was not worth living... But it was love, too, because I accepted his wish that we continue simply to be friends, and I was showing him how much I love him by doing my best... not to love him!!! Can you imagine that?! I am glad that it is over!!! But it was so long!
Anyway, the memories of that time are painful but biitter-sweet at the same time... just beacuse I finally suceeded not to desire him for myself... And this is the real happy end! Now he is happy and I am happy, too! Smile Smilie
Val,
Your post was not offensive. You sound like you do care about your girl-friend. It may not be love (yet) , but who knows. Maybe someday you will find that you can not live with out her.

You are very right. go out have a good time, but be honest. No need in hurting other people, while you are trying to move on. That is the only way to heal. Your post described the dating scene perfectly. I was the same way at one point.

True love comes around when you least expect it. When I met Matthew, I was dating someone else. It was not a good relationship, he was quite abusive, and I was actually afraid what he would do if I left him, but I was more afraid of what would happen if we stayed together. Matthew gave me the courage to get out, and even called the cops on J. Smith (his real first initial and last name). I could never be a Mrs. Smith. ewww that just sounds wrong. lol. I ended up throwing his ring back in his face and told him to get the h*ll out of my house in front of my father. I had never cursed in front of Daddy before. He did not say anything to me about that, but escorted Smith to his car. Later he told me that he was proud of me the way I handled it.

Matthew was great through all of it, but did not believe that I would ever truely love him, much less stick around. He thought that I was using him to just get out of the other relationship. Everyone else in his life that he ever cared about left, why should this ditzy blonde be any different? Matthew is not the most social of people and does not make friends easily. He did not believe that he loved me for a long time. It was very hard on him to finally admit, that he did. We did eventually break up and start dating other people. But neither of us could stay away from each other for long. It was like ripping our souls apart. We finally got back together and got married. Now, I don't have to worry about the dating scene anymore. That was always tough.

Eryan, I am glad that you are happy now. With the attitude that you have, I am sure that you will find another love somewhere, that can return your feelings. Good luck.

Love is hard to define, and even harder to find if you are looking for it. Just be happy within yourself, and have fun along the way. When you do find it, you will know it and not have to question it.

I wish everyone could have these feelings. The world would be much more peaceful place. Love conquers all!

[Edited on 16/10/2002 by MelliotSandybanks]
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You sound like you do care about your girl-friend. It may not be love (yet) , but who knows. Maybe someday you will find that you can not live with out her.
No doubt the day she leaves me due to the lack of commitment on my part, I'll suddenly discover that she was the one after all, and just how much I didn't realise that I loved her. The it'll be my turn to be a lovesick Val.

Actually, I feel awful now. Am I just using her? It's almost like I'm using her for weekend entertainment. She only sees me one day a week (one day a fortnight if I work a weekend) and she really misses me. I've told her she can move-in in two years time, but I'm wondering if I should make it sooner. Is this too much commitment if I don't know whether I really love her? I think the reluctence to being in love is not the usual fear of being hurt, but the fear of being caged.

I'm really torn on this one. She once asked me to dump her because she was finding it so difficult not seeing me. I knew it would be kinder to do it, but found that I couldn't. And yet I make her unhappy for more of the time than what I make her happy. I'm just being cruel to her, really. What I want is to be able to make her happy, but in a way I'm unwilling to pay the price (and I also have the fear that I'll make us both unhappy). Other couples move in with each other after a few weeks in some cases. Why am I making her wait four years? If things are going to go wrong once she moves in, it'll happen whether it's in two years, ten years or now.

I once read a story about a cat that had been abandoned as a kitten. It spent it's life torn between being wild and domestic. It could never decide which it wanted. That's how I feel. Part of me is willing to settle down, but another part of me wants to keep the freedom that I've got at the moment. It's not that I want to go seeing other women, because I'm perfectly content on that score at the moment, but it's the freedom to come here if I want for five or six hours at a time (how many times have you been accused by your ex of loving this site more than her, Taz)

Talking of which, how's it going Taz? I read somewhere that you and your ex are back together again, or did I open an older thread by mistake? Making Out Smilie

Good luck whatever Smile Smilie

[Edited on 16/10/2002 by Valedhelgwath]
VAl,
I am of course unable to tell you whether or not you really love her. I can only tell that I am similar to you in one respect - I must, simoly MUST be alone during a large part of my week, and if for some reasons it is not possible, I feel awfully caged. But when I was in love, I never had enough of being with him. Suddenly it was he who was most important, he and his wellbeing, not me. And only in his presence the world seemed "normal", full of colours and sounds. When he was not with me, all was bleak, grey, horrid. Do you feel the same thing when she is with you? Do you feel radiant, strong, ready for everything? If not, then probably you are not in love with her, you only try to love her... Good luck!
This has been my experience, for whatever it's worth.

Love = obsession but obsession does not = love. Love is obsession reciprocated. Obsession is a one way deal. I've seen this to be true in my own relationships and in others. I know that may be an over-simplification, but that's why they call it chemistry; because love is so complex. You can mix an infinite variety of chemicals to get the same desired reaction...or undesired reaction. The how's and why's are different, but the results are the same. True love, or unrequited obsession.

That's why I agree with Melly; if you have to ask, it's probably not true love.

Time heals all wounds but only if you don't keep reopening them. That's why I say to you, Taz, STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP! There is only one result at the end of all the what if's and the shoulda, woulda, coulda's and that's pain and regret. You deserve better! Is that a cliche? Sure it is! But there's a reason cliches become cliches...because, in many instances, they're true!

You are obviously a caring, sensitive guy. And most importantly, HONEST. Tuck that under your belt and take it where it's appreciated. No one can tell you where that is. Only you can be the judge of that.





[Edited on 10/19/2002 by ProgHead777]
Well being just a silly 18-year-old with no experience at all, I thought I'd better stay out of this, because I'm probably not much good to anyone on this, but I decided to answer some of my romantic cr*p anyway.

I've never really been in love before and therefore I don't really know what it's like to be in love with someone, let alone experience true love. But I'm pretty d*mn sure that when you do find that one you'll feel it's different from the start.

And yes, Plastic's right, love is different for everyone. I don't want to sound corny or anything but there's a song called "Flying without wings" (yes, Westlife), and it's not a very good song, I know, and it's Westlife (you probably don't like them, and I don't either) but the text is really good.

"Everybody's looking for that something
One thing that makes it all complete
You'll find it in the strangest places
Places you never knew it could be

Some find it in the face of their children
Some find it in their lover's eyes
Who can deny the joy it brings
When you've found that special thing
You're flying without wings

Some find it sharing every morning
Some in their solitary lives
You'll find it in the works of others
A simple line can make you laugh or cry

You'll find it in the deepest frienships
The kind you cherish all your life
And when you know how much that means
You've found that special thing
You're flying without wings

So impossible as they may seem
You've got to fight for every dream
'Cause who's to know
Which one you let go
Would have made you complete

Well for me it's waking up beside you
And watch the sun rise on your face
To know that I can say I love you
In any given time or place

It's little things that only I know
Those are the things that make you mine
And it's like flying without wings
'Cause you're my special thing
I'm flying without wings

And you're the place my life begins
And you'll be where it ends
I'm flying without wings
And that's the joy you bring
I'm flying without wings"

Very Sad Smilie
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Tuck that under your belt and take it where it's appreciated.

Heh, nicely put Prog Wink Smilie

Oh and that song REALLYREALLY sucks Tommy, sorry...
Prog, you are so right in everything that you said. Thank you for that wonderful insight. Wish I could have said it as nicely. One other aspect of love, is realizing that the person you are in love with is also your best friend. Someone that you don't have to pretend in front of, and when you are just sitting next to each other and a silence happens, it is a comfortable silence. Just being near each other is enough. Someone, that knows everything about you, past and present, and willing to stay and find out about the future. No secrets, or very few. Someone you rediscover every day. Someone, even when you are mad at that person, you KNOW it will be ok. That you can forgive, or be forgiven, and have not fear that either will leave.

No relationship is perfect, NOT even friendship! Relationships are hard work, but the most rewarding hard work that you will ever find.
I am back with her yes, although I must say it's a strain and often a burden on my mind however there is no point in me thinking or attempting to leave her as I only feel worse without her company and love. As for putting PT in front of her? No... I am a multi-tasking fraggle me Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Taz,
I am happy to learn that you are together with her again, in spite of all the tension... Love-sickness IS a privilege, not everybody is able to love in such a passionate way!
*grumbles* Well explain to me why every day I wish at some point that I had never come to learn of this so called 'love' emotion.
because you are no more free, you are a slave... you do not control anymore your life, you are like a leaf borne by a torrent more powerful than you... but quiet life without powerful torrents would be so dull!!!

[Edited on 24/10/2002 by Eryan]
Big Laugh Smilie I want a torrent! Especially if he is tall, dark, handsome, preferably rich... Wink Smilie
Wonderful for you Taz! Big Smile Smilie

Plastic: I saw that one coming miles away, but I don't really care. Tongue Smilie
It's just corny, romantic, totally inexperienced me brabbling about sth I don't know anything about I guess. I only feel that one day I'll wake up with a really good feeling and then I'll know the one I love most will be lying next to me. Sth like that anyway. Tongue Smilie
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I only feel that one day I'll wake up with a really good feeling and then I'll know the one I love most will be lying next to me. Sth like that anyway. Tongue Smilie


ROFLMAO! This is getting like a carry on movie! Anyone else want to put things really very dodgily?
Why do you feel that Tommy's hopes are so funny Plastic?
I don't find her hopes funny, just the way it's been put, waking up with a nice feeling, and thus knowing there's someone next to you, get it? Maybe it doesn't translate so well, much like Prog tucking it under his belt and taking it somwhere else, i like the turn of phrase, and can imagine Kenneth Williams saying "Oooh! Matron!" to each and every one of them.
I love waking up to a really good feeling. Wink Smilie

Understood now? I'm not being mean at all.
Understood! Big Smile Smilie !
Gotcha. It's the translation that got in the way... My English is ok for everyday use, but not for these kinda things. Big Laugh Smilie Anyway, figured you know what I mean, right?
Nothing wrong with your English Tommy, it's just like my gf says, I can make even the most innocent sentence sound filthy, just got that kind of mind. Smile Smilie
Well, Plastic, if you were 10 years older, I would swear you were my hubby using a different nick. He does the same thing. No, seriously, if you two ever meet, you will either hit it off great or hate each other. You talk and think so much alike.
On love or obsession, I find lust is much more fun, people get hurt less and you don't have to buy chocolate at certain times of the month. (I know I sound like a pig but I already have to buy chocolate for my mum, sister and work college, so they get thier bost of oestrogen and don't end up trying to kill the evil males.)

Edited by Mellie, I removed the comments about DeLoreans to the DeLorean Motor Car thread as well, as the comment about my pic since the link is no loger here. lol (Thanks by the way)

[Edited on 2/7/2003 by MelliotSandybanks]
I just noticed that this topic is Love or Obsession not Deloreans, so I started a new thread in The Green Dragon called De Lorean Motor Car.

[Edited on 2/7/2003 by MelliotSandybanks]

[Edited on 2/7/2003 by MelliotSandybanks]
I always thought that love is obsessive, in its own way. That's how you get that 'love feeling'. That's what makes woman stay with abusive husbands, and stay with guys that cheat, steal and possess. That's what makes you root through your boyfriends pockets, looking for train tickets to journeys they didn't tell you about, or other girls phone numbers. That's what turns sensible people into wimpering wrecks, just waiting for that text postBody. If love wasnt obsessive, it wouldnt be love.
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That's what makes you root through your boyfriends pockets, looking for train tickets to journeys they didn't tell you about, or other girls phone numbers.
Do people really do stuff like that??? It never occurred to me to go through any of my boyfriend's things.
A funny (or rather, sad) thing about obsessive love and any other obsession is that we have no choice left in that matter, Ringfaxwen! We may resist i, we may repeat ourselves thousand times that we do not want to waste our time for an obsession, but that does not make it disappear so easily. It is something external to our will, really like the power of the Ring. LOTR is a tremendous book about an obsession!
I just learned something which surprised me a lot. It seems that some obsessions are related to an autoimmunological disorder. That means that in some cases our own antibodies, active "soldiers" of the immune system of our organism, almost completely destroy the part of our brain which prevents obsessive thoughts and compulsive activities! How horrible!!!