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Hi Andrea, and a big welcome to Planet Tolkien. I'm afraid I've had to switch the signature off in your previous post, however, as it breached our rule about signatures being no more than three lines long.

Have a great time here Smile Smilie
Welcome to PT Andrea...Yes there are lots of similarities!

Lots of characters and themes are very similar. I have just gotten into Tolkien rather recently and just finished LOTR myself, maybe your experience was different. I actually kicked off my fantasy reading with HP and it was a thrilling introduction to the genre. Actually I'm glad that I did it that way because only after I read LOTR, did I understand how much Rowling borrowed from the fantasy warehouse of ideas, and if I had known I probably would not have enjoyed it so much. I do love HP and I am waiting for the fifth book just like everyone else. It has plenty to offer in its own right but like I will probably say forever now, it ain't LOTR...I actually think I'm pretty much done with other fantasy fiction postAuthorIDs now that I have read it because it probably doesn't have a chance to measure up!

Particular similarities I have noticed are the characters of Gandalf and Dumbledore, Sauron and Voldemort, and Frodo and Harry...plus the birds who became impromtu charter planes in each story, hahaha...

I started a thread to compare/contrast Tolkien with CS Lewis if you are interested? Specifically Middle Earth and Narnia. And there is a thread called The Return of Exactly What are You Reading Right Now? Plus if I remember correctly, there might be a thread or two about Harry Potter....check the pubs! I hope you have fun here, it's a place for both fun and information!
Thanks, I changed it Elf Winking Smilie
musicimprovedme that's exactly what I meant, how similar they are. I too like Rowling, but I just happened to read Tolkien first, that's why I noticed it.
I'll be sure to check out the pubs too! Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Hello Andrea, welcome to our Forum. Happy Elf Smilie

I hadn't noticed that before, but of course imitation is often the best form of flattery.
Welcome to PT Andrea. I hope you enjoy your visits here.
In answer to your question, yes. As a matter of fact some members have already had this discussion. May I direct you to:
The Prancing Pony > Parralells
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http://www.planet-tolkien.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewthread&postThreadID=938



This post will be moved to the aforementioned thread in a couple of days.
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Like Wormtongue, she has a character named that and so does Tolkien.


Peter Pettigrew's nickname is wormTAIL rather than tongue, but yeah, you do have a point. But isn't everything derivative of everything else when you get right down to it?
Authors get ideas from other postAuthorIDs. That`s how she got those names. She just slightly changes them.
Personally I h.a.t.e. HP,but don't mind me.Still,i think you can't compare the two writers,nor their books.In no way.
ps Welcome to the forum!Hope you don't mind I said what i said,but different people,different opinions.See you round!
I personally love both postAuthorIDs, and yes Rowling did draw from Tolkien, but raptor, is correct. They are in 2 different classes, and of course Tolkien is a much better postAuthorID. There are times when you just want something a bit different to read and that is where Rowling comes in. I have really enjoyed reading HP. I read all the books so far first and then read them to FrogBoy. He has since gone back and re-read them himself. We are anxiouly awaiting the next book.
I love both postAuthorIDs very much and my experince was exactly identicall to musicimprovedme Big Smile Smilie

I personally beleive there is a curve when it comes to "stealing" ideas in fantasy...

We all grew up knowing about wizards, dragons, princesses, magic swords, great castles and kingdoms...
It very hard to get these influential images out of our heads when it comes to being creative. I think that if you are going to write a classic, timeless fantasy novel you have to keep these traditions in mind. While it is refresshing to read a completely original book with characters you have never imagined before, how many of them stand the test of time and influence peoples of all nationalities and cultural backgrounds?

When you are writing a fantasy there is a structure to be followed. You must have an underdog, a wise leader, an evil being, and a happy ending. There is not many ways to get around that structure and still have peice of work that will leave people touched.





[Edited on 23/3/2003 by Kaimelar]
O, Harry Potter isnt that bad...he has his good qualities...
OMGOSH!!!!!! I was just defending Harry Potter. Shocked Smilie Ah! Well, the only good character in Harry Potter is Voldemort. And Draco Malfoy! But Voldemort is the coolest. Kill Harry! Sry! Srysrysry... Big Smile Smilie Yea. I think J.K. Rowling is a stealer. And the name is kinda similar if you look at it. *chants* stealer stealer... (j/k, j/k, it was just a joke! Just havin a little fun...)
I have not read it. And i don't think i ever will.I never liked the look of it myself too much hype around the whole film in the papers..over here in the UK. maybe I'm missing out on something maybe I'm not. I think I'll stick to my usual reading material.
Well, I enjoyed the first four books so far and can hardly wait for the fifth. I have only see the first movie, and enjoyed it too, will buy the DVD of the second one when I may.

The stories of J.K. Rowling aren't as complex as those of J.R.R. Tolkien and I doubt if I will reread them, but they are good page turners and never put me to sleep like did The Lays of Beleriand. The books of the two postAuthorIDs are just of different styles and written for different people. One shouldn't compare the Harry Potter and the .... books to LotR, but might do so to The Hobbit.
In which case The Hobbit is far superior (obviously). Smoke Smilie
I don't like HP either mabye it has to do that it is on this age. Big Laugh Smilie

Ofcourse she has addopted some things from LOTR but I think most other fantasy postAuthorIDs have.
Acctually Tolkien took things from mythologies, for example VŲluspŠ (I have no Id how to write the name in english) there is a poem wich goes like this in one part.

Veigur og GandŠlfur
VindŠlfur, řrŠinn,
řekkur og řorinn,
řrŠr, Vitur og Litur,
NŠr og NżrŠūur,
nķ hefi eg dverga,
- Reginn og RŠūsviūur, -
rťtt um talda.

Also Wormtounge could easily be a refference to the story Gunnlaugssaga Ormstungu (Wormtounge) where the main character is a bad mouthed poet. This story was written hundreds of years ago.
Isn't wormtounge Ś name used in every culture that knows snakes? To speak with two tounges and such. Wormtail is in that sence a new refreshing twist.
I love the Harry Potter books and have read them at least two times. Yes there are simmilairties, but the world JKR created is also a whole lot different from what JRR made. For one its not something that went on a long long time ago, it's happening now. I think it is brilliant. It dosen't take place in some mysterious world or universe, it's right among us, we just can't see it.

And in JKR world dragons are not extinct! Big Smile Smilie
But they can't talk.. Sad Smilie
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And Aragog the spider sounds a lot like Aragon.
Isn't spiders called arachno-something? I think that has more to do with the name than Aragorn. And Aragorn didn't try to eat Frodo. Wink Smilie

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Particular similarities I have noticed are the characters of Gandalf and Dumbledore, Sauron and Voldemort, and Frodo and Harry...plus the birds who became impromtu charter planes in each story, hahaha...
Birds? You mean Buckbeak? Part horse, part eagle? Don't think he would be happy to be looked at as a simple bird.. Hippogriffs are proud creatures. But so are JRRs gigant eagles.
I shall not comment this book because I do not like it!
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plus the birds who became impromtu charter planes in each story, hahaha...
Birds? You mean Buckbeak? Part horse, part eagle? Don't think he would be happy to be looked at as a simple bird.. Hippogriffs are proud creatures. But so are JRRs gigant eagles.
No I think the bird referred to was Dumbledor's pet Pheonix, whose name escapes me at the moment, and which played flying railroad engine in the second book. Shards, Scraps, Embers, Coals, Ashes, shucks I think it starts with an S, but I can'tseem to remember its name.
Oh yes of course! Silly me forgot about the pheonix.
He is called Fawkes, but Vulcan in Norwegian. I'm "scared" to see the movie if he is there because I'm afraid he will look as wrong as Doddy does.
You mean Dobby right AmariŽ?
hehehe....
Dobby, doddy, I don't really care. Wink Smilie I like his norwegian name better, Noldus. Dobby is a boring name.
Fawkes, yes that was its nameómy grandson has my books and I didn't want to listen to the tapes or watch the DVD just to hunt down its nameóanyway, after its resurrection it, looked just like a pheonix to my way of thinking. Happy Elf Smilie
On 23/06/03 #1ElijahLover posted
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just out of curiousity who here likes LOTR more then HP[harry potter] and WHY? i am so on LOTR side.


[Edited on 23/6/2003 by Valedhelgwath]
I just got the new HP book, The Order of Phoenix. So far it's actually very interesting! But despite that fact, it can never top LOTR!
In Love Smilie I love the Harry Potter series, but it is more platonic than my love of Tolkien's work. Tolkien's work is like forever in that it has depth in its fullness, while J.K. Rowlly's is only for a lifetime because it is rather two dimensional, in that I see no underlying storys within the storys, no matter how much I like her writing, characters, and plot. I Love You Smilie She is writing a wonderful series of barn burners (page turners).

I can hardly wait for bedtime, so I can read another hundred plus pages of the HP and the Order of the Pheonix. (I'm averaging 200 pages per early morning reading, as I'm now ready to start Chapter Nineteen 'The Lion and the Serpent' on page 397.) Fast Asleep Smilie NOT
I FINISHED IT! I FINISHED IT! I FINISHED IT! I FINISHED IT!
Don't wanna give away the ending, but I will say I cried. Sad Smilie
Interesting discussion going on here, I was having a similar discussion with some people over at CoE the other day on sort of the same topic.

I personally have never read any of the HP series, and I highly doubt I ever will. Nor have I seen the movies. For whatever reasons, HP has just never appealed to me in any way. I know so many people who have read those books, including some highly intelligent people who I really respect, and Iíve heard nothing but good things. I have nothing against HP whatsoever, but I just donít care. Again, for whatever reasons, HP just doesnít appeal to me.

However, even though I havenít personally read the books, I would never sit here and say that they are crap either. Like I said, Iíve heard very good things from people whose opinions I highly respect, and trust. I think those books have accomplished a lot of positives things. They are getting so many people to read, especially young boys and thatís a good thing no matter what. Plus I really feel like those books can, and will be a stepping-stone for a lot of young minds to other greater postAuthorIDs like Tolkien, etc. So by all means, for all you HP fans, please keep reading!

You canít try to compare HP to Tolkien. Thatís like trying to compare hamburger to filet mingon (my apologies to all you vegetarians out there). What I'm saying is that nothing in the fantasy genre (and really almost anything else) can measure up to Tolkien. I think Grondy said it pretty well with this comment;
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The books of the two postAuthorIDs are just of different styles and written for different people. One shouldn't compare the Harry Potter and the .... books to LotR, but might do so to The Hobbit.


Even though they're both in the fantasy genre, thatís exactly it. They're different styles of writing, and written for different people. J.K. Rowling has written her books specifically for children, but theyíre so good that they have ended up appealing to a much larger demographic.

I donít see her as a copycat at all, she has created her own world, her own stories, her own characters, and they are unique to her. Yes, undoubtedly she has been influenced by Tolkienís work, but as a fantasy writer, it would be impossible not to be. Also, from what I understand Rowling got most of her names from some oddball floral/plant book. Names like Voldemort, etc., come from this plant book, not from stealing things from Tolkien. Furthermore, as Kaimelar and others have already pointed out in this thread, there are certain elements, and sort of a certain basic structure that has to be adhered to when one is writing fantasy, thatís what makes it fantasy!

Even though I havenít read her books, I really admire, and respect J.K. Rowling. If you know anything about her personal history, it really is quite an amazing success story, and Iím happy for her that things have worked out for her the way that they have (even though I know she is starting to find it all a bit overwhelming). As an postAuthorID she has managed to climb a very difficult mountain, and she now finds herself above the clouds, atop the highest peak, and she should be commended for it.

Again though, you canít compare her works to Tolkien's, because even though she has managed to make it to the top of the mountain (a difficult task indeed), Tolkien is all the stars in the infinite universe that she, and everyone else is looking up at, and forever will be.
Elf Smilie

I really had a hard time stopping the reading last night, or should I say, this morning for the sun was coming up when I finally called it a day. (Man, I really take umbrage with Miss Umbridge.) I read 300 pages and only have 170 remaining which will call for a reread some time soon, but maybe not for another month. And then we have to wait for another two or four years depending how much time JKR spends on the next movie(s).

I can really relate to Harry in this new book, I also was known to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation, I forgot how bad the early teenage years were. At least Frodo had already come of age when he had to start his quest. He didn't have his hormones messing up his relationships; he just had 10,000 Orcs, Nine Riders, one evil wizard, and one evil demi-god to worry about, not to mention one psychotic proto-hobbit and a ring with an agenda of its own.
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I can really relate to Harry in this new book, I also was known to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation, I forgot how bad the early teenage years were. At least Frodo had already come of age when he had to start his quest. He didn't have his hormones messing up his relationships; he just had 10,000 Orcs, Nine Riders, one evil wizard, and one evil demi-god to worry about, not to mention one psychotic proto-hobbit and a ring with an agenda of its own.


Really? Harry's temper was one of the things I actually didn't like about it, it began to bug me after a while and I just wanted to yell at the book "Stoppit! Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it!"
It was very very good though.
Wasn't sure as to whether I should read this thread or not, as being on holiday at the moment, my copy of the new HP book is waiting for me at the post office, 30 miles away. Thanks for not giving it away for me. I think that you cannot compare the two at all. Mind you, I am always wary of saying that any art is better than any other, as it is all subjective and your own opinion. I will say that Harry Potter affected me in the same way as Lotr did nearly 20 years agoi though, and that's why I like it so much, it made me feel like a little kid reading Tolkien for the first time again. If you see what I mean...
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it made me feel like a little kid reading Tolkien for the first time again. If you see what I mean...
Exactly, except I was a grownup, when I first Tolkien, but I still couldn't put The Hobbit and LotR down having to see what happened next.

The Harry Potter bools are so well written that even I can relate to those kids and their problems, remembering back to my school days fifty years ago. And her stories are page turners, this new one I finished reading early this morning. I read it in four nightly sessions, averaging 56 pages per hour, which probably says I'm a slow reader, but who cares. It is not the speed of one's reading that matters, it is the enjoyment one gets out of it.
So, Plastic have you gotten to read it yet???? I really enjoy the HP series, it is very good. I am currently on the chapter called The Eye of the Serpent about page 445, is what I think it said. I read until I just could not hold my eyes open any longer last night, but I did keep trying, I did not even turn the light off. I woke up this morning with the book in bed with me, my finger mushed between pages and numb, and all the lights on. Matthew apparently fell asleep before I did last night.
Hey I dont really can say what I think then I only was watching the movies, Okay I dont like Potter the Flotter(there is not really a good storie behind, she tryes to write every year or so a new book >>> only for the mony not for the one thing, the one world, like Tolkien did ) *g* but what else??

I have this
http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/6654.html

for you, have a look and have a lough and the talk *g* Bey then and take care



[Editiert am 27/6/2003 von Nessa]
Nessa's first link didn't load, but the second one did and it is funny.
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So, Plastic have you gotten to read it yet????


I'm finally home today, and I found it sitting in the outhouse outside my front door, so having almost the entire day to do nothing in, I'm going to listen to the stack of Judas Priest records I bought last week, and get somne serious reading done for the rest of today. Will tell you what I think tommorrow, when I may have finished it...
Nessa's link was quite funny. Thank you so much for sharing that Nessa.

Well, Squirrell? what did you think of the book? Have you finished it yet. I was able to finish it on my birthday. It was great.
If you have a look in the what are you reading thread in the Dragon melly, you'll see that I finished it in a very short time, and quite enjoyed it I think. I think i said more there though.
Will probably read it again soon, as I went through it a bit sharpish.
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If you have a look in the what are you reading thread in the Dragon melly, you'll see that I finished it in a very short time, and quite enjoyed it I think. I think i said more there though.


I saw that, Plastic, too bad I did not see it before I posted my question to you here. lol I am glad you enjoyed. I thought it was great.

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Then I realized why J.K. Rowling did this. She didn't make Harry Potter anal just because she was trying to simulate 'teenage problems'. It was Dumbledore that said Lord Voldermort's Greatest power is that of uncertinty, of making everyone hate each other, doubt each other, fight amongst each other


Yes, I think you are right Anilorak. It took me a bit to realize that. In the first couple of chapters, I thought he was just going through teenage angst, but then the brain started kicking in and I realized that it was Voldermort. I think Rowling did a great job showing Voldermort's power.
When Grondy said it was a barn burner (page turner) he was not kidding! I'm on page 654 and the barn could burn down and be rebuilt around me and I wouldn't notice a thing. I can't put it down! It is great! Big Smile Smilie Hardly a dull moment (or maybe I'm reading to fast to notice Wink Smilie ). But it's almost over now. A re-read is a must. *runs back to book* Read Smilie


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Wecome to PT Andrea!
Yes, i have noticed that Harry Pooter is very similar to LotR Mad Smilie Mad Smilie Mad Smilie . It makes me very mad. Nearly everythings been copied. But, oh well, i suppose it doesn't really matter, cuz Harry Potter's a load of ****, and always will be. Big Smile Smilie Elf Smilie


you've read my mind,ElberethGilthoniel, i HATE HP, too.

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I personally have never read any of the HP series and I highly doubt I ever will. Nor have I seen the movies. For whatever reasons HP has just never appealed to me in any way. I know so many people who have read those books including some highly intelligent people who I really respect, and Iíve heard nothing but good things. I have nothing against HP whatsoever, but I just donít care. Again for whatever reasons HP just doesnt appeal to me.

However, even though I havent personally read the books I would never sit here and say that they are crap either.



i agree. even though my last post was a bit harsh. and i still agree with.

[Edited on 8/7/2003 by #1ElijahLover]

(Grondy just fixed the errant ASCII numbers.)

[Edited on 8/7/2003 by Grondmaster]
I read Harry POtter first and I couldn't imagine something that much better, until i read LOTR woooowww that just blew me off I finished the trilogy in 3 weeks I could not put the book down, then I read the silmarilion and my vote goes to Tolkien, I now see him as my hero! I am so obssesed with that guy and his works!! what do you think went through his mind to be able to write that, too bad that he passed over, i wish i could talk to him,and learn from him as much as possible!!!!


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"it is in sickness when they are reminded they are only human" "what if darkness was made up of more than just "the abscence of light""
#1eliahlover, I was never interested in HP whatsoever either, I had never read the books and i just was not interested, but then, I had to read it for my english class, and at first I was like what is this? but then it got really interesting and I read the next books and I liked them, maybe you should read them.

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"it is in sickness when they are reminded that they are only human" "what if darkness was made up of more than just the absence of light"
sorry anatea(seajewel) i do not agree with the books. the postAuthorID went to school to learn whitch craft.Very Mad Smilie Mad Smilie
or so i heard. but thats not my only reason. i have heard religon is banded from this site so i will no longer contiue. i am shuting up.Paranoid Smilie
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the postAuthorID went to school to learn whitch craft.
My dear I-belive-everything-I-read-on-the-internet. If you had bothered to even glanse at a HP book you would see that JKRs books contains nothing of what your are insinuating they do. All her spells are made up and there is nothing even hinting towards ANY religion what-so-ever, and do not encurage kids to learn witch-craft and serve the devil. It is not that kind of witches and wizards they learn to became AT ALL!! And there are no foot-notes telling kids where to look up more about witch-craft. It's all lies.

All she is learning the kids is to be true to their hearts, to speak out agains racism and dicrimination and bullying, to look after those who are weaker, to take care of your friends and be nice to people even if they are different, if you get to know them you might be pleasently surpriced, AND the kids are enjoying themselves while learning this!

Sit down and read one of the book befor you go shooting of your mouth like that.
Okay guys, lets calm down, obviously, to constructively criticise anything, you do need to have read it, everyone knows that. It's why I read the HP books in the first place, so I could slag them off, unfortunately, I couldn't, as they are in fact very, very good, and I have yet to meet anyone who has taken the time to read them that says otherwise. However, this is no place to have a slanging ,match about whether it is great or not.

However, it is decidedly not true that JK Rowling ever went to school to learn witch craft. That sort of thing does not happen in the real world. Mainly because there is no such thing, unless you count the Wicca religion, which is actually quite interesting, and mostly to do with tree-huging and stuff really. Bit drippy, but no less valid than any other religious belief in my opinion.

Lets shake hands and be nice okay?
Yeah youíre right as usual Plastic. Just felt I had to kill the lie before it spread (further).. I know Iím short tempered, Iím sorry. Sad Smilie
A few years ago before I had read anything of HP, I heard these rumours too but didn't believe them. It does of course depend on where you heard the rumours. I just read them, if Iíd been told about it I might have felt different. I did however believe there were footnotes in the books, but that they were pointing to something less anti-christish then the rumours told. Maybe pointing to a story from where she got a spell or something. Got a bit disappointed when I found out it wasn't true actually..

Of course yelling and shouting at someone is not a good way to get the massage through, but I'm a lemming; tiny and cute but can explode any minute if I feel provoked somehow. I'm sorry that me biting your head of was the first greeting you got from me in here. Believe it or not, but I'd defend you with teeth and claws if anyone had been telling lies or harassing you #1ElijahLover. If this had been a real life conversation about the matter, we would have shouted and growled a bit, then weíd agree on something and everything would be fine. Now only the shouting is visible, but Iím usually a nice and trustworthy girl who tries to see both sides of the story.

And I like your poems too btw, I really do.

*reaching out for #1ElijahLovers hand*

Hmm.. just realized I probably won't be online for a while now 'cause of my sisters wedding and lack of internet at my apartment. Glad I got to say I'm sorry, and I hope me sounding like a b**ch doesn't stop you from wanting to come here and speak your mind about things. Sad Smilie
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i have heard religon is banded from this site so i will no longer contiue. i am shuting up.Paranoid Smilie


i do not mean hers[JKR]. i mean mine. and thanx for appologizing, i accept. Wink Smilie and they are just whitch craft and about it and all but i cannot start a disscussion about this whithout bringing up God, Christ, And the Bible. even so i have no wish of my own to read them.



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