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In the movie Return of the King theres a General Orc dude who go's by the name of Gothmog. But, is that not the name of the Balrog in the Silmarillion who helps destroy Gondolin.
There are two Gothmogs in the books : one appears in the Silmarillion and is the Lord of the Balrogs who killed Fingon; the other appears in ROTK and is a luitenant of Minas Morgul :

Quote:
He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray;


I am pretty sure the orc commander with the molten face in ROTK movie was not explicitly named Gothmog, though. But i can be wrong.
They call him gothmog on the dvd extras. Thanks for the info
Actually, Tolkien never said what this Gothmog, lieutenant of Barad-dur, was in fact. He wasn't a Nazgul, yet he could've been a Orc, an Uruk or even a Man (like the Mouth of Sauron).
I agree with Bugyfeanor and in addition I think PJ did a good job with his rendition, by making his Gothmog someone who would visually standout from the rest of the Orcs and Uruks, ugly, but not too scary, and sort of albino-like, and one tough dude. I loved the way he stood his ground in the face of that incoming building cornice: that took either no brains or lots of intestinal fortitude and it surly made believers out of his troops that he was meaner than they were.

This is another thread that shoud be moved under characters when we are able to move threads.
Quote:
They call him gothmog on the dvd extras.


And on the TCG.
You will find that the mouth of sauron was one of the black numenoreans.
Gothmog was truly chilling to me. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that he was an orc and in Peter's rendition of him I thought to m yself he must have been horribly tortured to look like that. He seemed to take more than the usual delight in the torment and murder of Men and elves. He just electrified the scenes he was in, well the actor did. He was stupendous.
By the way the actor, was he not two other characters as well? I thought he was the orc I despised the most, the one who killed dear Boromir, and then someone else? I really cannot recall.
I just checked on IMDB.com -- the actor is Lawrence Makoare:

Fellowship of the Ring: Lurtz (the Uruk-Hai leader that Saruman spoke to: "Now... perfected. My fighting Uruk-Hai. Whom do you serve?")
Return of the King: Witchking, and Gothmog

So yes he was two other chars besides Gothmog. And yes Lurtz was the one who killed Boromir (see biography).
Excellent memory Leelee!! Elf Smilie
Oh thankyou so much Meneldur, you saved me the research and it was truly bothering me. I actually saw this actor, he is aboriginal and I think h e has a very large number of children. When out of costume he was awe inspiring. Truly fantastic looking and so very gentle and soft spoken. You could hardly reconcile the fact after seeing him that he could be those characters.
Again thankyou for your trouble. Smile Smilie
(*blush*) Awww thanks, it was no trouble at all. Just a little favor from one Elf of Imladris to another. Elf Winking Smilie

This stupendous actor is so very believable in all his parts as is of course John Rhys Davies, and he is one actor I should like to see much more of . perhaps he could be Beorn in the Hobbit.

Aborigines are from Australia Leelee, Lawrence is a Maori, born to the Ngati Whatua tribe in Auckland New Zealand.

He's a big guy and as you say is very soft spoken, but being such a large man and of Maori decent he can bring forth his warrior side and be extremely scary in his parts. One NZ movie I remember him the most in was called Crooked Earth, where he played a drug lord, opposite another well known NZ actor Temuera Morrison.

Temuera Morrison, yes he was great as bounty hunter Jango Fett in "Attack of the Clones". What I didn't realize (until just now), is that he was also stormtrooper Commander Cody in episode 3.

of course he was Cody, the CLONE trooper, not stormtrooper.  The clone troopers were clones of Jango Fett,, therefore they looked like him and consequently had to be played by the same actor (for face shots anyway).

That's enough about star wars, it's good, but nowhere near the magnificence of Tolkien.

Thank you Rho, of course New Zealand and not Australia. What was I thinking. There is mystery surrounding this peoples though. Some are sure they are the polynesians that came and yet Thor Heyerdal insists they actually came from America because of certain traits they had and foods made, etc. But whatever, they are very lovely . I don't think I could watch this gentleman in any more truly scary parts. When he killed Boramir I thought I should  die of broken heartedness. His understandable lack of compassion was so chilling. He was truly terrifying. A family member said to me he would not make a good Beorn because Beorn should look more Scandanavian in his opinion. But really now adays what is that to put stuff on his face and completely give him the right look. His body and bulk would need no help! And just imagine him turning from intimidating person to raging bear. shudder. perfect don't you think?

At any rate he was a superb Gothmog

According to Maori history (I shied away from using the word legend there) they sailed from Hawaii about  500 hundred years ago. The Maori are warriors to the core and are very fearsome to say the least, our national Rugby team (the All Blacks) use a Maori Haka (war dance) to prepare for a game.

I suggest you Youtube 'All Blacks Haka' and have a look see, it really is something to behold.

That is very frightening. I would hope to be offered a feather, else i would surely die, because if you did not accept what they offered, they would surely kill you after the challenge.

I know something of that, for I was an au pere to a wonderful gentleman that was now in my country after marrying a Canadian and he was Maori and he showed us some nights many of the things of his people. He himself was a rather gentle person, he was an orderly in the hospital. But I remember that just one, just one angry look from his face was enough to frighten the household for a good couple of days. I wonder if Lawrence said the Haka just before playing the Urik-hai? If I had been Boromir I should have only wore trainers and practised my running five hours a day!

I too thought that Gothmog was a cool character in the films.  I loved the scene where he rode into battle on a very fat looking Warg.  He evoked John Wayne for me, albeit hideously deformed.  There is a fantastic image of the actor in full make up asleep in a wheelbarrow on the special addition DVD.  He seemed to be everyone favourite.

Someone mentioned The Mouth Of Sauron in an earlier post.  I find him to be intriguing.  I always suspected that he was one of the Blue Wizard, caught and corrupted by Sauron....  This thought however was dashed by one of the Professors letters....

Oh Brego, I should be very broken hearted if it were one of the Blue Wizards. To see such honorable creatures so debased and broken and turning to evil is too much for me.

True Lee Lee, as Tolkien said, Morgoth's most offensive act in the eyes of Iluvatar was the corruption and changing of the Elves into Orcs in mockery.  Can you imagine how this would have been achieved! Simply terrible.  I suppose that if The Mouth Of Sauron was in deed a Blue Wizard this would be equally as awful.

I completely see where you are coming from Leelee. Just the thought of something so pure and good turning into something so corrupt... I cant handle the thought. Even the thought of how the orcs were once elves is so sickening. But maybe it was something that Tolkien was trying to portray; that good can become evil, alike the story of Melkor the difference with Melkor the orcs is that Morgoth chose freely to turn away from good, the elves were tortured and demented by Sauron, unwillingly bending to his purpose.  Such a sad story.Sad Smilie

I remember reading in something, perhaps it was The Letters, and Professor Tolkien was talking about how Frodo didn't actually fail in the end even though technically he did , because he had gone as far as he possibly could until his mind was broken by the enemy and he had no more strength of mind to go a step farther. That is when Illuvatar stepped in as it were and, suddenly Gollum came from nowhere to bite off the poor finger that wore The One Ring and that in turn cause Gollum and the ring to be nomore, thus accomplishing all that Frodo originally was meant to accomplish. Frodo was a simple if somewhat 'higher' hobbit who did all he knew how and in the end could no longer fight against the awesome and terrible power of Sauron.

The professor likened it to a prisoner of war who holds out and in the end under torture and lack of food, sleep and all alone and broken perhaps says something he should not have, or cracks and gives in. He was by no means a traitor but only a person that simply could not go on one step past what his mind could endure. It is sad. To know the power of the Elves, their dignity and intelligence, their wonderful brilliance in battle with bow and arrow and sword, to know that some one so despicable could torture them over and over and over until one day they knew not who they were anymore and all love had turned in anguish to hate against all they had once held dear. I cannot bear it.

Well, we know that Orcs created from Elves wasn't Tolkien's first idea, nor necessarily his last idea. I would guess that later he was at least 'leaning toward' the notion of Orcs created from Men rather, with a dash of Maiar as well...

... but that subject might need a thread of its own (and probably has one already)! And not that Orcs created from Men is a cheery notion in any case! Tolkien had only published (through Treebeard) that Orcs were made in mockery of Elves -- not that they were made from Elves, and so he delved into various possible origins, and questions, concerning orcs.

 

If I recall correctly, in the late 1950s the idea of Maiar-orcs was fairly consistent, but these were not the stock of 'regular' orcs in any event.

I have been thinking lately of how odd it is that, practically no one else, no other author ever got away with having so many changes and variations of a story , complete with its own histories and yet we devour them all and go with them and often end up quite confused and unsure of things. It shows the mezmerizing awesome talent of our professor Tolkien , do you not agree?