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Thread: Modern Middle Earth

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I hope this is a unique thread...I couldn't find one similiar.

This thread is to discuss what middle earth would be like with modern technology.
I am no historian but I would date ME (technologically) around the 16th century. Although Morgoth's and Sauron's technology was pretty advanced. But what if the people of ME started the industial revolution for machinery that was not purposed for domination, but just for advancement.

Could the people of ME eventually work up to automobiles, computers, and space stations.

( I apologize if a member of the council decides to move this thread.)
They could've, sure, but it would've still been a Fourth Age (or later) phenomenon. The environmental consequences would have never been accepted by the Eldar or the Ents. It might've been possible to a very limited degree if it was restricted to the point these consequences were limited and temporary or virtually eliminated. One way or the other, the Eldar wouldn't live in a world with smog or the greenhouse effect. Just my two cents.
Actually Middle-Earth was the earth we live in now, but just in a very early history before the shape of the world was changed (it seems to be the opposite of Brooks's Sword of Shannara were the world began as highly technological until a nuclear war broke out and the world and its ppls were destroyed and ultimately gave birth to the 'fantasy' world), hence we 'live' in a modern Middle-Earth.

I assumed we were accepting that as given and treating with Middle-Earth as an Yrrth type scenario, because I assumed we were talking about it in terms of still having a large population of demi-humans. Though I guess my response really amounts to "yes, but it would go the exact same way unless the Elves still left."
Well if we cannot use technology for weapons and only in our advancements I suppose I would be saudering with ballistic missles.
It may be foresight of this advancement that encouraged the elves to leave Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age. They called the Fourth Age the Age of Man.... they maybe had foresight of what Man would do with their world.

Advances in technology occur at an exponential rate. What Saruman began with his machines of war would eventually develop at an ever quickening pace to nuclear warheads if left unchecked. Tolkien allowed the good guys to stall this advancement for a while, leaving the lands in the hands of a good and wise king, but what he had already shown with the demise of Numenor during the Second Age, was that even the most noble dynasties fall into decay over the generations.

He began writing another novel set in the Fourth Age but quickly abandoned the project because it lacked the "magic" of the earlier ages. Even Tolkien seemed to know his world was on the same tracks as our own. He chose to stop while the grass was still green.
in my mind the fourth age would be great Big Smile Smilie
I dunno... I like technology, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't take a part of our humanity...

Anyway, Tolkien's Middle-earth with modern technology? That would be a strange sight. Oh, and since technology (whether "good" or "bad") is just a shortcut to our purposes, it could easily be defined as magic by Tolkien. And he said there was only one kind of magic - Sauron's kind.
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I dunno... I like technology, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't take a part of our humanity...

Well, lucky then that our humanity is going to be saved by the Butlerian Jihad 10,000 years from now...
What about dwarf technology, and gandalf's pyrotechnics?

While it's true that Saruman's machines are much maligned and used for evil, etc., it seems that technological advances might prosper in an ME of Legolas-Gimli type relationships. Tech can be used for making things as well as for destroying them.....

After all, what is the industrial revolution but a new set of tools? and machines and manual tools certainly were put to use in Elvish, Hobbit, Human, and Dwarvish realms. In fact, if there WERE a way to have the knowledge and technowledge increase as it did in the Ind.Rev. but WITHOUT the environmental messes, I'm sure the Elves would be leading the way. And the dwarves wouldn't be far behind. And Wizards.... well, it's just a different kind of magic, isn't it? Ents and Hobbits would lag behind humans, I'm sure.... and of course Eagles would probably not have lots of use for it at all, and Bombadils.... well, they're just an anomaly Wink Smilie
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In fact, if there WERE a way to have the knowledge and technowledge increase as it did in the Ind.Rev. but WITHOUT the environmental messes


I think the environmental messes arrive because technology enables man to become master of his planet rather than be mastered by it. By that, I mean he can outstrip its production of natural resources, and pollute the land faster than it is capable of cleaning up his mess. Legislation to limit the damage that industry can do always lags far behind the cause, while all the time the planet spirals into further environmental decay.

I doubt anything will be done to counter this spiral until it is too late. The effects of it all going wrong, however, will hopefully shake up what is left of the human population and give them a valuable lesson to take with them into the next age of mankind. Maybe, if they learn the lessons well, the next age will be a good one for man.
Hmmmm.....

If I had to hypothesize the why and wherefore of people-made environmental messes, I'd say it has less to do with people becoming masters than it does with people becoming journeymen instead of masters, if you follow my metaphor.
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And he said there was only one kind of magic - Sauron's kind.


I thought he said there was only one master or lord of the ring (Sauron). Tolkien refers to magic as used by Gandalf, and even (in the perception of Sam) to magic as used by certain elves, (e.g. Galadriel's mirror, or the elven rings of power unsullied by Sauron's touch). And although it's not referred to as such, you might be able to classify the healing power inherent in Aragorn's line (the line of Kings) as a kind of inborn magic.
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And although it's not referred to as such, you might be able to classify the healing power inherent in Aragorn's line (the line of Kings) as a kind of inborn magic.

I'd refer to it as a talent, which he learnt to harvest from Elrond, who himself was a great healer.
in a modern middle-earth those pesky orcs would have an ASBO slapped on them as fast as a rat up a drainpipe.
Question Smilie Please explain:
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ASBO
Elf Confused Smilie

Thank you. Happy Elf Smilie
Anti-Social Behaviour Order... They are Britain's new way of dealing with yobs, thugs and noisy neighbours. I think people given ASBOs can be placed under various degrees of martial law, while others are prevented from entering certain areas. I did read of one particularly obnoxious granny who was actually banned from the housing estate where she lived.
Ah, so you Brits sort of certify them anti-knights and anti-dames, whereas we Yanks merely lock them up and consider submitting them to capital punishment. But we better drop this topic so as not to get into that brouhaha. Elk Grinning Smilie
A couple got an ABSO for feeding birds in a park

What is the world (o rjust the UK?) coming to.................?!?!?!?!?!
That depends what they were feeding the birds with. Wink Smilie

But what Grondy was hinting to with his "bruhaha" is our no political discussions rule. If you (as in anyone who reads this) haven't seen our websites yet, go to this link and take a look at the rules: List of Website Rules Teacher Smilie

This has been a service annoucement from the council. We now return to our scheduled program of more or less Tolkien related discussions. Smile Smilie

Also, when a council member says that a topic should be dropped, it is often a good idea to listen. We don't really like to yell at people, it just seems that way sometimes. Elf Winking Smilie
I've slapped my hand!

Sorry all!
I don't like to imagine Middle Earth sullied by all of our modern day "advancements". It has done nothing but make us all more impatient and grumpy and irratible and more selfish!!!
The Modern Middle-Earth? Imagine Rivendell covered with skyscrapers. Imagine a war against the Ents. The Rohirrim and Gondorian soldiers going around with flamethrowers burning ents and then Imagine that the Haradrim had employed some suiside bombers in Gondor.Imagine the Gondorian Soldiers with Tanks, Bombs, Nuclear Warheads and Machine Guns. Not pretty. I like Middle-Earth set the way it is.Big Smile Smilie
I
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I like Middle-Earth set the way it is.

I am entirely in agreement with that. Without the Valar and Elves to provide corporate memory, the Men of Middle-earth will have blown it to heck in a handbasket by this time, and thus I like Middle-earth as I first found it, almost forty years ago.
I cannot bear to t hink of Middle-Earth in our age using 'bad' technology. Tolkien h ated engines, they were to him evil.And in the third age it was Saruman and Sauron and their ilk that employed technology including the terrifying and destructive powder to blow things up.
It is just not comprehensible to me that Middle-Earth should have all that . So I personally could not even begin to t hink of anything more sophisticated than a water wheel!