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Hello, I have read the books and seen the movies and have come up with a very interesting question... I dont recall any passage anywhere in the writings of Tolkien that gives any explanation...

We all know that the great Eagles played important roles at key moments throughout middle earth history. We also know that the Great Eagles were friendly with Gandalf and Elves also that they definetly had a stake in the outcome of the events of the war of the ring.

So my question is this.....

Other than for the sake of making a story of a long and perilous journey...

Why didnt Gandalf just get the great eagles to fly the Frodo to Mordor and just drop the ring in????

it probably would've taken about 12 hours if they left early enough they coulve been back for dinner....

can somone please help with an answer

thanks!!!
For a start the war in ME was between Sauron and Men. The elves had enough and were leaving and it was left to Men (in the broad sense) to fight for ME. So the Eagles were not involved directly in the war.

Also, Gandalf was sent to aid but not to interfere. If he had asked the Eagles to accomplish what the Men/Hobbits were supposed to then Men would not have earned the right to rule ME.

Gandalf, I think, would have been loathe to ask that of the Egales. Gwaihir had said he was sent to bear tidings, not a burden and all this stuff going on between the little people down below on the ground was probably a bit beneath him.

It seems the only beings able to withstand the power of the Ring (apart from Faramir, and he never touched it anyway) were Hobbits. What if Gwaihir had taken the Ring? Would it have corrupted him in the same way it corrupted Boromir. Even Saruman, a Maia, gave in to greed for power. Would the Eagles have remained untouched? I doubt it.

Sauron would have been watching for something like that. Far too blatant a way of getting to Mordor. He didn't notice the Hobbits scurrying along but he might notice one of the Eagles.

And of course, it wouldn't be such a great story....
Defeating Sauron was up to the free peoples of Middle-earth alone, as a test of the Valar.

The Istari (who were Maiar and hence servants of the Valar) who were sent to Middle-earth by the Valar, were only allowed to guide them; they were not allowed to interfere directly.

The Eagles were Maiar too; they were the servants of Manw himself, hence they too were not allowed to do something as direct as flying the One Ring to Mt Doom. That's why they didn't do it.

One might as well ask : why didn't Tulkas come to Middle-earth and wipe out Sauron and all evil single-handedly? The answer is : because it was simply up to Men, Elves and Dwarves to do so.
cool thanks!
It's really weird when Mir and I agree on something - I expect the universe to implode....
which leads Zim to his next question, wouldnt it be better if the uviverse imploded? besides making a good long story end to easy...
Theoretically, it already is.
Also, it wouldn't have been as easy as flying up and dropping the Ring in Mt. Doom. The Eagles flew over Mt. Doom after Sauron and the Nazgul were destroyed. I'm sure if the Eagles tried to approach Mt. Doom before the Ring was destroyed, Sauron and the Nazgul wouldn't simply allow them to glide in and fly around Mordor. Sauron was watching for something more obvious than a little Hobbit sneaking into Mordor with the Ring. The Eagles would have been fairly obvious. (Of course, I agree with everything else that was said as well -- the Maiar, the Eagles taking it for themselves, etc.)
The Eagles wouldn't have been afraid of the flying Nazguls, but they don't care for the smell of singed feathers; nor do I.
It always seemed to me that the eagles appear when all hope seems lost. Thinking about it, they don't really take part in the affairs of the world beneath them, with two exceptions:

1)They like fighting against orcs, and other dark creatures of Morgoth and Sauron, & so they seem to show up when they get wind of a chance to fight 'em

2)They are willing to help out Gandalf when he's at a loss, wherever and whenever they happen to meet him. Are they under orders from Manwe to help the Istari? Do they do it out of brotherly love? Do they just happen to like Gandalf? Does Illuvitar have a hand in setting them as sentries over ME, to lend help when the Enemy's servants march openly, to watch over Istari -- (if the Istari were sent as stewards of a certain kind, to watch over ME and fight evil, who watches over them? Do the Eagles have, in part, the job of not only reporting to Manwe but also the job of helping when all other help is exhausted?)
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Does Illuvitar have a hand in setting them as sentries over ME, to lend help when the Enemy's servants march openly, to watch over Istari -- (if the Istari were sent as stewards of a certain kind, to watch over ME and fight evil, who watches over them? Do the Eagles have, in part, the job of not only reporting to Manwe but also the job of helping when all other help is exhausted?)

Illvatar hasn't, but Manw has. They're his servants.
If the eagles were not allowed to interfere with the course of events in ME, why then did they take an active part in the Battle of Five Armies?
I guess they were there to counter the Wargs, just like they came to the Dagorlad at the end of ROTK to counter the flying Nazgl.
Oh, yeah, that's fair: "He pulled a shotgun during our knife fight, so I launched an ICBM at the SOB." In some ways I think the Eagles were free agents; while they were Manwes agents nothing stopped them from acting on their own initative. And clearly they DID despise Morgoths fould broods, so it was only natural for them to intervene against them. Helping people already fighting Orcs isn't really interfering in my book; you didn't make their choice, you just assisted them after they made the right one (which is consistent with Tolkiens world view, I believe.) Other than that, yeah, if the Eagles go winging toward Orodruin I don't think even Sammy Baugh could thread the needle they found waiting for them. Instead of marching out to annihilate the After Last Alliance Sauron stations his forces all over Orodruin. How do you dislodge an army with vast numerical superiority and the high ground? You don't. Though I think Vee and Virumor are right, too, as they usually are.
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Helping people already fighting Orcs isn't really interfering in my book; you didn't make their choice, you just assisted them after they made the right one (which is consistent with Tolkiens world view, I believe.)

That explains why Tulkas suddenly popped up at the battle of the Pelennor Fields then.

"You have made the right choice, my Children, now kindly get out of the way while I kick some butt, OK?"
He did? What translation were you reading Vir? I knew the Belgian translation was bad, but hadn't heard that about the Dutch version. And I don't think the French would bother reading any English liturature. Okay! okay! This was all meant as a joke. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

I know Virumor was being sarcastic, still some people might not have.
FYI, 'Belgian' as a language does not exist.

And if PJ can let an army of green spirits do all the work, then why can't I let Tulkas do all the work at the Pelennor Fields? :-P
Oops, my bad. Of course the language of that nation, for which that prestigious award, the Rory is given for the most gratuitous use of its name in a serious screenplay, is Flemish. I knew that; because Tommie told me so.
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Why didnt Gandalf just get the great eagles to fly the Frodo to Mordor and just drop the ring in????

Maybe its just because Gandalf didn't have enough faith in Frodo's basketball-ing skills.

And moreover, it wouldn't have been any material for a nice, long drawn-out story with lots of action, suspense, drama, humour which can be made into a movie and can have a big fan legion around the world and also have a drastically good discussion board about it. QED.
Speaking of the whole "Men have to prove themselves and earn the right of ruling ME" thing, I wonder why Tolkien doesn't make Aragorn the Ring-bearer. True, Aragorn himself admits himself unable to carry such a burden when not standing up at the Council of Elrond, but Tolkien could've made an absolute hero out of him if he let him be the Ring-bearer and made him succeed fully. Right now I can only think of two reasons Tolkien did not use Aragorn

- to carry the Ring across the utmost perils of ME and be its possessor for such a long time would destroy anyone, even a man as noble as Aragorn, and Tolkien wouldn't want Aragorn to be the character that falls

- he wanted to how the importance of the insignificant, hence the hobbit Ring-bearer

- he wanted to show Aragorn's wisdom in not bearing the Ring (sort of like Gandalf's refusing it)
Tolkien didn't make Aragorn the ringbearer, because after the Council of Elrond the reader had already waded through 400+ pages with Frodo carrying the Ring. Tolkien figured that 180 degrees turns wouldn't be appreciated and disrupt the continuity of the story, not to mention as Hobbits were at the centre of LOTR, JRRT couldn't let Aragorn take over as that would mean they'd disappear out of the story.

And besides all that, Aragorn as Ringbearer would have been Boromir: the Ring goes to Gondor and destroys it from within, assuming Sauron allows Aragorn the time to master it (which is rather dubious) AND that Aragorn has the strength to do so (also uncertain.) That's the logical argument; the thematic ones are the ones you and Virumor have supplied.

And Tulkas wasn't necessary for the Battle of the Pelennor. Besides, when weapons rather than Graeco-Roman wrestling are involved, Eonwe is the better choice anyway. But by and large, the job fell to the Children of Eru, with what few nudges in the right direction that did come being small and of no greater magnitude than necessary. If the Valar fight all the mortals battles for them, they don't accomplish nor learn anything. Unless they're willing to stand there for eternity and be the Children of Erus keepers, they have to restrict themselves to enabling rather than determining the decisions of the Free Peoples.
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Besides, when weapons rather than Graeco-Roman wrestling are involved, Eonwe is the better choice anyway.

No, Orom is. He just sounds Valaroma and everyone flees in fear.

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And besides all that, Aragorn as Ringbearer would have been Boromir: the Ring goes to Gondor and destroys it from within, assuming Sauron allows Aragorn the time to master it (which is rather dubious) AND that Aragorn has the strength to do so (also uncertain.)

No, Aragorn as Ringbearer would be like Faramir. He would never wish or try to bend it to his will.
But once he had it in his hand, that would be that. He'd either try to bend it to his will (with what chance of success I don't like to speculate, but I doubt he had time to master it) or carry it to Sauron (this, of course, is far less likely.)
The operative word here is 'Ringbearer'. Aragorn and Faramir may have refused the Ring but had they taken it, had Aragorn become a Ringbearer, then it would be a different story. Aragorn would have succumbed to its power just like Gandalf would, and Galadriel.
There's a difference between just bearing the Ring like Frodo did, and trying to bend the Ring to one's will. Frodo never tried that.

Obviously, anyone who'd try to bend it to his will, would fall, but still that doesn't mean that anyone who has the Ring in his possession, would try that. Aragorn would have the wisdom not to.

Boromir fell because already at the Council of Elrond, he longed to use the Ring to save Gondor. Aragorn did not, and that's why his mind was not eaten by the Ring.
Aragorn never possessed it though, any more than Boromir did. Though the latter case does indicate it was possible, if harder, to fall under the Rings sway without actually possessing it. But if Aragorn had been the Ringbearer, what's he gonna do? Use it to fight Ringwraiths on their own terms? Trying to master it is his only option; at the end, even Frodo attempted that, only to have Gollum swoop in and settle the issue once and for all.
Don't mention it; Aragorn as Ringbearer is an absurd idea, anyway. Men have a tendency of always screwing up, so a Hobbit was needed.

Aragorn would most likely propose to Arwen, using his One Engagement Ring. That would be better than giving away the Ring of Barahir, a very precious heirloom, to the pointy-eared vixen that snatched away his heart.
No, he would have used the One Ring as the wedding band.
"Oi! Where'd she go?"

Could prove difficult.
That's when the infrared goggles come in.
Why are we all against Arwen? Somehow we all love Luthien but we seem to hate Arwen. It's really strange, seeing as they shared same fates, and made same choices. Arwen is really just a more nonexciting version of her foremother.
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Obviously, anyone who'd try to bend it to his will, would fall, but still that doesn't mean that anyone who has the Ring in his possession, would try that. Aragorn would have the wisdom not to.


Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel also had wisdom, probably far more than Aragorn, yet none of them would touch the Ring. I think Aragorn had the sense not to touch it, as did Faramir. Isildur, like Boromir, felt it could be used for good. He was wrong.

I think Hobbits were chosen to carry the Ring because they lack ambition. Sam's grand dream was to be a great gardener. The Hobbits had a head start on lack of ambition and it would be some time before their ambitions grew - no doubt they would have been captured by Sauron before that happened. Still, they started off free from the ambitions of Men and so the Ring had less effect. A warrior such as Boromir would have succumbed much quicker because his ambitions were so much greater.

Aragorn had ambitions. And whether he intended to use the Ring or not, it would have persuaded him eventually. That was its nature and a reason why the WIse Ones avoided it. Therefore, had he possessed it he would eventually try to use and conquer it - FOR GOOD but ultimately for evil. I can't see Aragorn beating Gandalf, Elrond or Galadriel in the wisdom stakes. Best he, and everyone except Hobbits, leave it alone. "Move away from the Ring!"
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Why are we all against Arwen? Somehow we all love Luthien but we seem to hate Arwen. It's really strange, seeing as they shared same fates, and made same choices. Arwen is really just a more nonexciting version of her foremother.

Arwen is one of my favourite characters, or I wouldn't write fanfics about her. We are dissing Arwen because we all like her so much.

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I think Hobbits were chosen to carry the Ring because they lack ambition.

Hobbits do have ambition, like everyone, but their ambitions are simple : just chill out and relax in the Shire. Their ambitions are not about ruling over kingdoms or peoples.

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And whether he intended to use the Ring or not, it would have persuaded him eventually.

Eventually, yes, at the fiery abyss of the Sammath Nar, just like Frodo, imho. Somebody would have to push him in. Yes, Gretel would have to save the day again.
I love Arwen, who says I hate Arwen, huh?Paranoid Smilie
She's one of my favorite characters in the movies.