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Thread: "Dark Queen" Galadriel

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Bottom of Page    Message Board > General Discussion > "Dark Queen" Galadriel   << [1] [2]
Regardless of personal opinions about minion loyalties it is clearly stated that Galadriel could have overthrown Sauron if she had the Ring. Smile Smilie
For more information about Galadriel's endeavours for power & glory, the following book is highly recommended : Shadow of a Dark Queen
It seems here that what lady Galadriel said WOULD happen if she were in possession of the ring, and what would ACTUALLY be allowed to happen by her heart and mind were not the same. What I mean is that , even dear Gandalf, whose sole task on Middle-Earth was to encourage the resistance and only show his power when absolutely needed and obviously directed by Illuvatar, since he said he was sent back , it was not his choice-well even he said that if he had the Ring, regardless of how in the beginning he would want to use it to do good, it would overthrow him and he would end up doing great evil. It is the rings EFFECT upon the mind and heart since it is only evil and not necessarily anything in the person at the beginning. It is like a vile of acid. The first drip or two upon porcelain won't do that much harm, but drip after drip after drip will ultimately totally ruin and destroy the piece of porcelain.So if Gandalf said what would happen should he have it in his possession, why would not the same thing, only according to the Lady's mind and thoughts, do a similar disservice to her and ultimately bring total ruin?
But that does not mean either Gandalf or Galadriel were in any way bad to start off with. And although she did indeed have the desire to rule over her own people in her own place, how is that different from the thoughts and sentiments, NOT the destiny of King Elessar? He didn't enjoy all the pain an suffering and privation that led up to his kingship, but indeed he did desire it and the privelege of ruling over the people in a good and beneficial manner.
Those under Lord Celeborn and Lady Galadriel were not forced to be their subjects, indeed they loved and honored them and wanted to come under their leadership.
So really in my opinion this dark Queen thing is a non issue. Smile Smilie
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So really in my opinion this dark Queen thing is a non issue.

Of course, but it is quite fun to imagine.
it is. Smile Smilie
I have a confession to m ake Vir.
Whenever I don't see you for a bit and miss you I write something that I am quite certain you will answer in a timely fashion if you are around.
I was not disappointed. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Good ol' Vir! Always keeping us on our toes...
Neither Gandalf nor Galadriel were evil nor did they have an evil thought in their bones. Still, their weakness was their want to do good. The Ring would have glombed-on to that weakness had they worn the Ring and eventually corrupted any good they tried to make. Their knowing this is why they chose not to take the Ring as their own. It is as simple as that.
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Neither Gandalf nor Galadriel were evil nor did they have an evil thought in their bones.

Gandalf did not, Galadriel did, since there was a darkness in every Noldo's heart before and after the Darkening of Valinor.

Galadriel hated FŽanor for the darkness in his heart, but she did not perceive the darkness into her own; she saw the mote in FŽanor's eye, but in her typical condescending fashion she did not notice the beam in her own eye.

Yet she was first to cast the stone at the Craftsman of craftsmen, when he sat wailing under a Thracian tree for the loss of his beloved Silmarils.
You know Vir, I am beginning to suspect that you have a secret crush on the Golden Lady. For I preceive that you 'doth protest too much and too loudly'. Hmmmmmmm. I wonder.
Smile Smilie
I wouldn't say the Noldor had a remnants of evil on the haerts after the Darkening of Valinor. I would say rather that they wished to do things there own way and not the way of the Valar. I wouldn't call it evil. Not all who rebel contain evil, just as not all who do as there told are wholly good.
I do not think The Noldor, Galadriel or even Feanor for that matter possesed any more evil in them than did any of the Peoples of Arda. I think all beings in Ea, save Manwe had trace or larger amounts of evil in them, or at least the capability to exercise that evil, with the First Arda thanks to the Discord of Melkor's music. Only in the Second Arda will that be wiped clean.
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You know Vir, I am beginning to suspect that you have a secret crush on the Golden Lady. For I preceive that you 'doth protest too much and too loudly'. Hmmmmmmm. I wonder.

No crush at all. Somebody just needs to offer a different opinion on Galadriel to keep the discussion goingl, that's all.
Well you do it magnificently. I would rather read your posts than attend the cinema. Smile Smilie
Same with me. I like virumor's style of writing in the forum tooo. And about the Dark Queen Galadriel, her whole lifetime desire was to have control owver everything and everyone in Middle-Earth. Big Smile Smilie
Sauron's servents were not loyal to him. They feared him exceedingly and the Ringwraiths are servants of The One. If there was a choice between serving The One and Sauron in his pitiful state in Barad-dur I think they would choose the former.
Also you speak as though Sauron's servants would never abandon him. This is not the case:

"So great was the might and splendour of the Nķmenoreans that Sauron's own servants deserted him; and Sauron humbled himself, doing homage, and craving pardon."

Also I am 99% sure I have read something to the effect that someone (Gandalf or Aragorn I think) speaks to another (Frodo I believe) and says that "If he that weiled the One had strength enough he may rule the Nine in his place". Something on those lines. I have yet to find it though.
Hullo Lord, hope you are doing well.
I agree that the servants of Sauron were not the least bit loyal to him. They were in their heart of hearts evil and full of malice in their own fashion though. I for one don't believe that even elves taken and tortured could have their hearts changed unless there was something not right in them to begin with. Because you can take someone and harm them , torture them and make th em do your bidding, but the one they will hate secretly is you and they would abandon that torturer in my opinion the minute they could or kill him or his allies if a chance presented itself.
it is rather like the proverbial den of thieves, they all drink together and plunder and kill together but not out of comradeship, rather out of a common hate of others and the desire to take what is not theirs and rule over others. But given the chance they would cut one another's throat then sit down to a pint as if nothing happened.
As with Morgoth its only usually the captains that have any sort of loyalty and share in the desires of The Master.
The slaves are bound by fear alone. But the thing with Sauron and Morgoth (who the Orcs secretly loathed becuase it was hHim that made them as they are) is that they have so overwhelming fear on the Master its not possible for them to simply disengage serving them.

To quote the lotr:

"As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope."
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