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Thread: Bravest Person Poll

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well i voted for Beren, he went down uninvited to Morgoths Pad, how outrageously scary is that, very brave, so what do the rest of ya think???
I also voted for Beren for the same reason; though it would have been Frodo except he was relying on Gandalf to get him past the rough spots and he really didn't know what he was up against.
In some ways, Grondy, that would make Frodo bravest. He lacked tactical skills, weapons training, strength, experience... just about lacking in everything the others had. From Bree to Rivendell he suffered danger and near death yet still he volunteered. I don't think he fully understood what could or would happen but he accepted the Quest anyway although by that time he had a better understanding of the evil they were up against.

I think that showed bravery. Maybe greater than the others because of his lacking in the usual 'hero' skills.

I haven't decided yet.

I voted for Frodo without much hesitation. For basically the same reasons Vee mentioned. He was a nobody, nothing but a hobbit who likes to sit out in the sun and dream of far-fetched adventures. He had no training, no experience, nothing except a bit of hobbit courage. The fact that he knew he was going into something he couldn't get out of, and the fact that he knew that anyone would have little chance of completing the task that was set to him, makes him seem all the braver for sticking to the path to Mordor.

Another part of the bravery shown in Frodo is his willing to accept the psycological burden of carrying the Ring. Not many people are willing to accept a task that has a little chance of success, but even fewer people would accept a task that has a little chance of success and grave consequences.

Yet others may also argue that Frodo's oblivion is a reason for NOT makiing him brave. A fool might go into a lion's cave but that doesn't make him brave, it makes him a fool. To this, I would argue back that Frodo was not ignorant of danger, though he may have been ignorant of many other things. There's that little sort of hobbit danger-sensor in him that knows what is out there and the possibilities.
I chose Hurin, and don't see how anyone could do otherwise, but then likely many others feel the same about their choices. Sure, Beren went to Angbanc uninvited, but that only underscores Hurin for me: he STAYED, defied Morgoth to his face for the bulk of his life, knowing that at any time he could have been released if only he would betray Turgon, as he watched his entire family systematically destroyed. Hurin Thalion rightly called the Steadfast; he was the bravest of them all.
I voted for Beren. Going desperado in Taur-nu-Fuin, crossing the Nan Dungortheb, winning/stealing the heart of the loveliest creature ever, then taking up the quest to retrieve a Silmaril does it for me.
for once, i agree with Vir 100% Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
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I chose Hurin, and don't see how anyone could do otherwise, but then likely many others feel the same about their choices. Sure, Beren went to Angbanc uninvited, but that only underscores Hurin for me: he STAYED, defied Morgoth to his face for the bulk of his life, knowing that at any time he could have been released if only he would betray Turgon, as he watched his entire family systematically destroyed.

No, he was forced to stay on his seat until his whole family was destroyed just because he had defied Morgoth. At that point he had lost any chance of being released even if he would have betrayed Turgon :
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There he was bound by the power of Morgoth, and Morgoth standing beside him cursed him again; and he said: 'Sit now there; and look out upon the lands where evil and despair shall come upon those whom thou lovest. Thou hast dared to mock me, and to question the power of Melkor, Master of the fates of Arda. Therefore with my eyes thou shalt see, and with my ears thou shalt hear; and never shalt thou move from this place until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end.'
Oh, c'mon, you don't think he could have made an offer conditional on release, indeed, it seemed implicit in the whole undertaking. "Any time you're ready Hurin 'Thalion' just say the word.... " Naetheless, only three people ever defied Morgoth to his face, and of those one was the strongest of all the Valar, the other was turned into hamburger by a single blow of Grond and the other--the other walked out of Angband and went to see and then bury his wife. Not to diminish Beren, for whom I have deep respect, but when he went to Angband he stood very still and let Luthien do all the talking, then got the heck out of Dodge as fast as he could when it looked like Morgoth MIGHT awaken. If anything, SHE'S the one that gets marks for bravery there. And by the way, why is Earendil misspelled? ;-p
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Naetheless, only three people ever defied Morgoth to his face, and of those one was the strongest of all the Valar, the other was turned into hamburger by a single blow of Grond and the other--the other walked out of Angband and went to see and then bury his wife.

You're forgetting L˙thien, who was the second one next to Tulkas who toppled Morgoth.

Besides, Fingolfin was not turned into a hamburger; he was smitten by Morgoth's shield after having skillfully avoided many hammer blows. After that, his body was saved from being devoured by Morgoth's wolves by Thorondor.
Pedant. I understood Morambar's visualisation, as I am sure you did. Another humourous comment diluted by your ascerbic wit.
And Luthien didn't defy Morgoth, she deluded and ensorcelled him. Hurin was the only one said, "Do your worst. You can kill me, but you can't make me betray Turgon. You can't MAKE me do anything. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, scarface."
He said 'stick that in your pipe and smoke it, scarface!!' ??? woooo way to insult a supreme overlord!!
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Hurin was the only one said, "Do your worst. You can kill me, but you can't make me betray Turgon. You can't MAKE me do anything. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, scarface."

He said nothing. He merely laughed in Morgoth's face, because he had spotted a huge pimple on the tip of the Dark Lord's nose (aptly named "Mt Doom" by Sauron).

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And Luthien didn't defy Morgoth, she deluded and ensorcelled him.

That's defiance to me. Anyone else would have cowered in fear before him, or hide like Beren did.

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Another humourous comment diluted by your ascerbic wit.

Yes, I bet you're still laughing. It was a real groaner.
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That's defiance to me


That was defiance, but it was mingled with sense and cunning, both of which Hurin sort of forgot when he insulted Morgoth.
Well, I was paraphrasing, but he DID say something: he called him a liar, which touched a nerve, I'm afraid. That's the difference between open defiance and guile, you see, and the difference between his actions and Luthiens. Mind, I'm not saying what she did wasn't brave (but notice who's in the poll and who's not?) just not bravery to the same degree as Hurin, whom I consider unequalled. Yet Luthien doesn't even merit a mention in the poll, while her cowering boyfriend is currently leading Hurin. Though the movies have apparently insured that Hurin and Beren combined can't match Frodo.
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Yet Luthien doesn't even merit a mention in the poll, while her cowering boyfriend is currently leading Hurin.

Don't worry, that's just good 'ol chauvinism. :-P

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Though the movies have apparently insured that Hurin and Beren combined can't match Frodo.

Hey, are you hereby asking for PJ to adapt the Silmarillion into a movie?
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And by the way, why is Earendil misspelled? ;-p

That's my fault, I'm only able to get on late at night except for some rare occasions.
My opinion is that Frodo is the bravest, because he made an act of selfless bravery for all of ME, knowing it could fail. Beren is very brave as well, but, with all due respects, he did it for a somewhat selfish reason. Fingolfin is also brave, however, his challenge to Morgoth was more out despair than courage. They are all brave, but Frodo's braver, in my opinion.
Hey, Grondy, the poll made it to the web a lot sooner than I thought it would. Do I get some mithril for it?Deal Smilie
I think Fingolfin was the bravest in Middle Earth. He openly rode up to Angband's gates and challenged Morgoth to single combat. Not only that, but when Morgoth did come he boldly delivered the ex-Vala eight grievous wounds, including lobbing of one of his feet. Smile Smilie
The elfling lord definitely got my vote!
Fingolfin did that more out of despair than sheer courage. And seven wounds was the number by Fingolfin, the eagle, what's-his-name, gave Melko the eighth.
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Hey, Grondy, the poll made it to the web a lot sooner than I thought it would. Do I get some mithril for it? Deal Smilie
You should, but we may need to remind Grep later, for his grandmother is at Death's door and he has been mostly away for the last week or two with only the occasional visit to P-T. Orc Sad Smilie Including just long enough to change polls; Virumor's was supposed to have been posted first, but Grep had too much on his mind, which is understandable.
Nah, Grep was just being mean to Vir.

Wiggle Smilie
Feuding CMs, huh? Where's that exit again? Meanwhile prayers and best wishes for Grep, his family and his grandmother. Remember, it's always darkest before the Return of the King!
I went for Frodo. Beren's deeds were probably greater, but Beren was already an outlaw warrior when he entered Morgoth's lair. Frodo on the other hand was a small hobbit from a peaceful community, who volunteered to carry the ring into Mordor. Someone mentioned that his deeds were not as great because he did not fully understand the danger he would be facing, but I disagree. He had already met the Witchking, and almost been killed by him. He still volunteered, however. Okay, Gandalf was with him, but after Boromir attacked him, he chose to go on alone with Sam.

Another reason I chose Frodo was because he performed his deed to save the Free People's and in particular the Shire. It was not for personal gain. Beren on the other hand performed his deeds to win the hand of Luthien. He was loved up, and we all know what crazy things that feeling makes us do on occasions.

Turin performed some great deeds, but in my mind he was fearless rather than brave. He seemed blinded by a desire to wreck revenge on Morgoth, and fought a wreckless war with what seemed to be a death wish. His father Hurin was brave to defy Morgoth so long, but having endured what Morgoth was doing to him, probably realised things could get no worse anyway.

Earendil went to sea on a journey he did not expect to return from. Many sailors have done that in the past, and was often part of the package of being a sailor. Leaving his wife was more an act of self sacrifice than bravery.

Gandalf... He's maian. Whatever happens to him he's going to be alright. If he dies he goes back to being Olorin.

Fingolfin... Noble and brave, but also wreckless and blinded by dispair.

Frodo maybe did not perform the greatest deed, but compared to his own strength and prowess, it took the most courage to perform.
i voted for frodo basicly because he new what the ring could do to him but still decided to do it so in my opinion that is being brave is
I agree with Val and Golden_red... in fact I think Ihave already posted much the same.

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Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could; and also in complete humility, acknowledging that he was wholly inadequate to the task. His real contract was only to do what he could, to try to find a way, and to go as far on the road as his strength of mind and body allowed. He did that.

JRRT Letters

I think that is what makes the difference for me. The others had some expectation of success, some hope of victory but Frodo had nothing. Was there ever a time when Frodo really thought he would succeed and survive?
Agreed, Frodo was brave, but did he really have to roll eyes and pull weird faces that much??!

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The others had some expectation of success, some hope of victory but Frodo had nothing.

I think Beren & L˙thien's situation looked more bleak than Frodo's. The odds they had to go against, were much higher than Frodo's. But it has to be said that both of them were weaponed against those odds much more than Frodo ever was.
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Agreed, Frodo was brave, but did he really have to roll eyes and pull weird faces that much??!


Only if you go by the film. Shame on you, Vir!
I think Samwise should have been in this pole. Frodo wouldn't have made it anywhere without sam. It took some nerve to carry Frodo those last steps to Mount Doom, guts to sand up to a ranger with not but his fists, and b***s to stare the nazgul in the face for the belief of freedom and friendship.
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Fingolfin did that more out of despair than sheer courage. And seven wounds was the number by Fingolfin, the eagle, what's-his-name, gave Melko the eighth.

FionwŰ Urion, Fingolfin wounded Morgoth 7 times before he fell and Morgoth set his foot upon his throat, whereupon Fingolfin lobbed it off... So eight wounds if you count the foot Big Smile Smilie
Wow, my candidate is destined to lose. I voted for Earendil. Facing Sauron or Morgoth when -- if you don't -- you're likely to die under his domination of the whole earth anyways -- but if you do, you might just live -- versus undertaking a trip to go see THE GODS who, by all accounts, haven't let anyone, regardless of their purpose, survive a trip to Valinor ever since that pesky Feanor left and killed all his kinsmen (or should I say kinselves?). In other words -- if I lived in ME, I might say to myself: evil I know; evil I face every day here, on both big and small scales. I might as well fight the supreme evil or dye trying, no? But supreme goodness, now -- I'll just be annihilated for even approaching it. And who knows if it even really exists anymore? Plus, even if I'm not annihilated, what if they say "nope, sorry, can't help you there" to my prayer for aid? And of course, there's all the normal courage it takes to go on an ocean voyage to places unknown.
Valid points, though I contend Hurin had a choice (not a good one, granted.) His death was certain, but he could choose the manner of it, and of the life he'd lead in the interval. He chose nobly and well, and defiantly at that, then maintained that defiance through two decades or more in Angband as he saw his family suffer a far different fate than Earendils family (except for his brothers-in-law, of course.) One could argue Earendils choice was from necessity, and that even if unsuccessful he didn't have to witness Morgoths wrath against his family. Every moment. Every day. For decades. Until their suffering ended and they died.
Well Hurins death is very similar to Feanors. They both died last of there host against a far greater host of Angband. Feanor was slain by Gothmog, whereas Hurin taken to Morgoth.

But in my opinion the bravest deed of all was Turin slaying Morgoth himself.
It doesn't count if it hasn't happened yet. Elf Sticking Tounge Out Smilie
It has. Morgoth was slain in the Day of Doom by Turin. Unless your talking about the third age and previous?
Now, clearly, Tolkiens version of Ragnarok is a future event, no? The central conceit of Middle-earth is that it represents an ancient prehistorical earth (particularly when we arrive at Eriol/Aelfwine and the HoME books that contain the story you reference.) So the fact we're having this conversation renders the death of Morgoth, within the context of Arda, a future event. You can count deeds of history, but not deeds of prophecy.
I thought it was ' what was the greatest deed in the entire Tolkien myth'. If it was then Turin did the greatest deed by slaying Morgoth in the Dagor Dagorath, the Last battle and the Day of Doom.
If you talking only about the first 3 ages of Ea then this does not count.
I would have to say Sam, because he went through that whole adventure and not once doubted himself or wanted to quit.
Oh....and he had to put up with Frodo's crying and complaining.
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Oh....and he had to put up with Frodo's crying and complaining.
That crying and complaining was only in PJ's movies; as I remember the Frodo in the book was more stoic and didn't wear his pain on his over-acted sleeve. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Yeah, PJ messed a lot of things up. Frodo was very courageous in the books, and he acted like it, but not in the movies.
If you think the movies are bad, think of some of the games. Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers is awful, everywhere you go with Frodo hes complaining. You could be beating the game and Frodo would say: "We can't do this, I'm scared"
i will have to say sam, though he's masker was "gone" he keept going
I could not choose between Samwise or Frodo. To my heart both of them were the bravest because they were Shire born and lived in an atmosphere of laughter, eating, drinking and since they were only just past being tweens they had lived a very carefree life.
Bilbo was so famous because being a Hobbit he actually did what other heros did and that was rather unheard of before him.
So Frodo, being ever so gentle of heart and innocent and having always been cared for by first parents, then the Brandybucks and then uncle Bilbo, was not fit to do a single thing that involved strategies or armed combat. Nothing at all. All he had was a willing heart to do something to protect the Shire. He was a total innocent babe.
And Samwise, who liked to spend all his time listening to tales and working with pretty plants was no more ready to tackle what he did either. All he had was a tender love of his friend and employer.
What they went through was past u nderstanding and only their original love of Shire and people and one another kept them going when they were completely bereft of understanding and strength. Sending those two out was like sending grade one children.They had to grow up fast and see the real ugliness out there, hate and extreme violence, hopelessness and helplessness.
And they came through with flying colors. My heart is very proud of them.