Thread: Poll: Favorite Vala
The new poll was suggested by Virumor who did spell their names correctly, as did I when I entered them; somehow all the special letters were converted by the poll program into capitals rather than lower case. Anyway, unless Grep can fix them with his magic wand, we will have to live with them.
I chose Yavanna because she was worried about what we Dwarves would do to nature and because of this the Ents and Giant Eagles were brought to Middle-earth to keep us from doing too much damage. To bad they are no longer around to pound some sense into humankind.
I voted Ulmo because he was the only Vala who never abandoned the Noldor in Exile; furthermore, it was him who sent Turgon and Tuor to Gondolin so that Ešrendil, the saviour of the Noldor and Atani could come into being.
Noldor lover! ;-p I agree, essentially for all the reasons you stated plus a basic love of water in general and the sea, the reasons for his deep reverence from the Eldar. In terms of affection he's probably second only to Varda in their hearts, and it was a tough call for me, too.
yay ive ben waiting for a poll with this in it, thanks Vir
i chose Nienna and as i can see she is one of the top with 22%, but anyway, i chose her as she did play a part with dealings of Gandalf, you must think, where did the great wizard Gandalf learn his qualities?? i liked the fact that she taught him and suceeded, she did a well done job of it.
Her tears helped grow the two tress of Valinor, it shows that 'beings' that are higher than mere mortals can have feelings and can fell hurt over a matter, she is hurt for the sufferings of Arda, a very sad Vala, i like her the best as she takes her own self and is a part of things.
In terms of affection he's probably second only to Varda in their hearts, and it was a tough call for me, too.
I think AulŽ was second for the Noldor.
Ulmo would be second probably for the Teleri; both ManwŽ & Varda would be closest to the Vanyar.
As for Nienna, she's my second favourite Vala; and without a doubt my favourite of the Valier, even before Varda.
I chose Nienna because she was the Valar that healed all the pain melkor spead.As loss said gandalf learned a couple of things from her.She was a healing being who grieved for Ea and valinor,that's why I like her!
A difficult question. I like Yavanna because of the Trees, I like Aule because of his craftsmanship but most of all I like Ulmo because he is set apart from the others and does not like to walk the land yet most of all I Ulmo because of Tolkien's words that say "Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar."
He never abandoned them. Bless.
Fair point on Aule, Vir, I'd somehow let that slip my mind, but they were the Deep Elves for a reason. And yeah, I agree with you on Ulmo, Vee, another more overt example of the Professors theology creeping into the Silmarillion. Without Ulmo Morgoth rules Middle-earth, which, of course, the Professor would never allow.
I suppose my vote should be perfectly predictable due to my love of plants. Yavanna has always been an object of reverance to me. Although I do like the others a lot (presumably Ulmo for the wisdom and Mandos for the solemnity of fate), I think Yavanna held a great heart in marrying Aule, who I think would cut down more than a few of her trees, and in going to Middle-Earth to look after the fruits of her labour during the dark times when Morgoth hid there.
She worries so much about her olvar and kelvar that it almost seems selfish, but I think it's reasonable since she did make them and they were there to keep the earth in good shape, as well as provide all the Children with necessities for life.
Of the Valier she is second only to Varda, it is said in the book, and I like Varda a lot too. It's just they're different types. Varda is holy, powerful, fair, and one to be revered in temples and sacred sites. She is the one you would look up to the sky and pray to, but Yavanna is the one you would look down upon the earth and thank.
I suppose my vote should be perfectly predictable due to my love of plants.
It could've been VŠna too, then.
Varda is holy, powerful, fair, and one to be revered in temples and sacred sites.
Not at all, she's the one who's revered to by singing.
As far as I know, the only ones who built temples were the Nķmenorans, and that were temples devoted to Eru. The Valar have no need, nor longing for such self-indulgent structures.
I'm not sure you can automatically call temples self indulgent; the sticking point for the Valar would have been that Eru, not they, was the proper object of any worship to be forthcoming. Again, remember how much more obvious the Professors influences are in the Silmarillion than the Trilogy (how much that would be true had he lived to publish it himself remains to be seen.) The Silmarillion notes that "Men have often called them gods" but that's as good as saying they weren't. The only Vala to appropriate deity unto himself was the one who appropriated everything else unto himself: Morgoth, which, once again, is consistent with the Professors own theology (though in fairness the only explicit mention I recall of Morgoth worship was instituted by Sauron in Numenor.) I still hold that things come full circle with the Valar, as the ancient pagan deities of Europe thinly veiled by sainthood were reverted to much of their original animistic roles, but it seems obvious they could never possess true deity for the Professor (though the precise status of these remains a bone of contention for many today, one I certainly won't try to address here.) It's one of the more interesting aspects of a Celtic world with which Tolkien would have been quite familiar; the belief in brownies, pixies, and the quasi-world of Faerie exsisted right along side of a Christianity already quite mature in the Ireland of the first millenium, and persisted down the last few centuries. And the reason it was possible is because nature spirit doesn't necessarily equal deity.
I'm sure this was somehow connected to which Vala/i I like best, but I'm less sure HOW at this time....
I don't know what you're trying to say. The Valar did not wish to be worshipped, hence they needed not temples; only Melkor & Sauron would wish such a thing, hence the whole cult thing in Nķmenor (and apparently in the Fourth Age too, but the Professor abandoned this plot bunny).
Of course they did not. But people worshipped them anyways.
I don't know that anyone worshipped any of the Valar save the poor deluded last Numenoreans of Ar Pharazons reign. That's never explicitly stated, only that some Men called them gods. And what I was getting at is that I doubt not the Valar would say that if anyone should be worshipped it would be Eru, their creator, and not they, his creation. However, when Sauron corrupted Numenor he corrupted a people with an existing faith in and worship of that very Eru, yes? And that was not, I think, intended by the Professor to represent Eru as the victim of self aggrandizement.
I choose Tulkas, because i kinda like the way he excells in phisicall things, and the fact that even Morgoth was afraid of his strenght.
because i kinda like the way he excells in phisicall things
Nessa most likely liked this aspect as well.
I don't see Melko/Melkor listed? I was going to pick him...
That's the reason why we didn't include him.
FYI, Melkor is counted no longer among the Valar. Read the Silmarillion. It's at the beginning of the Valaquenta.
Incorrect. Melkor is no longer counted amoung the Valar by the OTHER Valar! In essence he is still a Valar regardless of who disregards him as one.
But anyway no point in crying over spilt milk.
You have not read what is written in the beginning of the Valaquenta.
I quote :
The Great among these spirits the Elves name the Valar, the Powers of Arda, and Men have often called them gods. The Lords of the Valar are seven; and the Valier, the Queens of the Valar, are seven also. These were their names in the Elvish tongue as it was spoken in Valinor, though they have other names in the speech of the Elves in Middle-earth, and their names among Men are manifold. The names of the Lords in due order are: ManwŽ, Ulmo, AulŽ, OromŽ, Mandos, Lůrien, and Tulkas; and the names of the Queens are: Varda, Yavanna, Nienna, EstŽ, VairŽ, VŠna, and Nessa. Melkor is counted no longer among the Valar, and his name is not spoken upon Earth.
Melkor was a Vala, but no more after he made war upon his brethren and 'fell'. He is the Enemy, and regarded as such by Men and Elves in calling him Morgoth.
To make a comparison, one also doesn't call Lucifer an Angel anymore after he fell.
I have read that section many times.
The Valar discounted melkor as a Valar becuase of his deeds but in truth he IS still one.
Its like saying that Hitler was no longer counted human becuase of his deeds. Anyone can discount him as human but he IS still human in essence.
You cannot compare humans to beings of a higher order. That is why I compared Melkor with Lucifer, because in essence the Ainu spirits are Tolkien's version of Angels.
Regardless of what you choose to believe, the reason why Melkor was not included in this poll is because he was not counted anymore among them by the Elves, as mentioned in the Valaquenta, and that is the final word on this.
Anymore gripings will be deleted without warning.
I am only having a discussion with you. Chill out.
How very like Mir to do so! Chill out indeed! But I must thank you both for such an amusing thread, although what I think you guys are trying to make out is that Melkor is still biologically a Vala, but spiritually he is not anymore. I don't know what that means, since the Valar were spirits with no body unless they made one for themselves. but in terms of power, Melkor was still a Vala, only his un-Vala-like thoughts and deeds lessened his power in the end and he could no longer be a Vala. And besides, his unholy spirit itself would eliminate himself from the Powers.
You seem to fail to understand that this thread is about whom you chose as favourite from the fourteen Valar mentioned in the Silmarillion. Melkor isn't in that list, hence he should not even be brought up since it is off-topic.
If you want to discuss Melkor, go here for instance : Melkor's evil
If you don't agree with the poll, send a message to the Council. Griping on the poll pages will not be tolerated.
Darn... just lost my post because I forgot to post it before going on to vote...
I had said basically, that until just now I had not voted. The decision was too difficult for me to differentiate between certain favourites. Coming from a sea-faring background, I have always had an affinity for Ulmo, and like Virumor mentioned, He never fully left the shores of Middle Earth after the others had gone. But then there is Yavanna. I picture her in her form of a tall woman dressed in green, caring for her forests, and want to choose her. I then think of Orome, however, hunting Morgoth's creatures, and his love for Middle Earth, and want to choose him.
The decision is hard enough taking those three alone, but then I think of Irmo, master of visions and dreams, and his wondrous gardens in Lorien... And his sister Este, healer of hurt and giver of rest. Even the other valar came to these two when they needed rest from the toils. I think my final choise would actually come from one of these two, but it is a very close contest.
In the end I actually went for Este. I see others have mainly gone for the big guns of Ulmo, Varda, Yavanna and Tulkas, which does not surprise me. Those Valar who are not Aratar are often overlooked, and I think that is possibly because their domain is less well understood (it is easy to percieve Air, Earth, Water, Forests etc, but less well to see Rest, Dreams, Dance, Grief etc). I find these lesser Valar quite interesting, however, as they tend to deal with emotions rather than physical things.
Why, I've never thought of the lesser Valar in that way before! But now that you've brought it up, it does seem to be that way. They care for more emotional things, and are thus overlooked (probably because what they look after is nothing physical and cannot be seen with eyes), but in that sense I think they might be even more powerful than the Aratar, since what they deal with is the mind and not the body.
Only the FŽanturi deal with matters of the mind, and only one of them is not of the Aratar : Irmo, better known as Lůrien.
As for the other Valar who are not Aratar, they do not deal with matters of the mind at all : VŠna is Yavanna's sister, and hence deals with nature (flowers and Orlando bloom in her passing, and what not); there's Tulkas, who deals with pure physical things, running and wrestling; there's Nessa, who is OromŽ's sister and deals with physical things too : dancing and running; there's EstŽ, who also deals with physical things : healing bodies.
Then finally there's VairŽ, who makes tapestries depicting the history of Arda. Weaving is quite physical too.
But unlike Air, Earth, Water, Stars, Forests etc, they are not so physical. Okay, granted healing does need a body, but the act of healing itself is not physical. Similarly dancing, although requiring a physical being to enact the routine, is just that, something that has a beginning and end but no physical entity. Here I'm comparing things to mountains, seas, stars, trees etc.