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Thread: BROKEN HEARTS

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When you start at the beginning of dear Tolkien's genius to the very end, in all his works there are certain themes: one's destiny or doom, good and evil, freedom vs. bondage
And then there is broken heartedness
I believe because of Ronald's own pain, first leaving then losing his beloved father to death, then the dreadful poverty of his mother and her great suffering then death, he was keenly aware that in any quest, any love story of merit there is broken heartedness. The quest for it's own sake, putting aside any happiness to do one's duty for mankind, family, this was important.
The seeing one's hopes and dreams shattered by making the decision to forge ahead was common. Searching for a loved one, being devestated at finding t hem dead, laying down beside them and just dying like that of grief, especially for the women, this was common.

So, my question is-
of all the characters included in all his books, which character's broken heart stirred you, moved you the most and impacted you emotionally the most long after the story was finished being read?

I have two of t hem, but in this post I will name Eowyn. I realize that she did not go through perhaps as terrible or traumatic things as some, but the way she kept everything inside, bore up so stoicly and went from one grief to another with seemingly no respite breaks my heart.
The way she lost her parents and then had to watch her beloved uncle fall to such a humiliating state, she a daughter of Rohan, not only suffering pain because of loss but deep pain because of the slow demise of the dignity and hope of her people due to Saruman and his puppet.
And her humiliating herself to beg Aragorn, the great anguish in her heart.
This hurt me so much.
I have a confession. I am never sure if her ending up with Faramir was because she honestly fell IN love with him as oppposed to just having a measure of love for a good man and realizing that such as Aragorn, her first love was forever out of her doom.
If it was the latter, then no matter what happiness she did have there would always be pain at the back of it, though she would never show it and do her best to be the best wife she could ever be.
I just don't know
well since i don't know much about tolkien' life i can't say anything about that but i'm bound to agree with you on eowyn. i do not, like you, think that she really loved him but respected him more. and as for broken hearteness i can't say anything on that....
Tough to say who i pick but i'm sure it wouldn't be Eowyn because in the end she fell in love and basically realized what she wanted, which was far opposite from what she thought she wanted at first. Therefore she had a broken heart for something she didn't even really want but it just took her a while to realize that.

I'd say Pippen had the biggest broken heart when he was denied that last pint of beer.

***Edit***
Ya that's what i was trying to say.... Eowyn had a school girl crush on Aragorn, not because of Aragorn's character himself, but to his image and the idea of him being King and a fierce warrior.
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I have a confession. I am never sure if her ending up with Faramir was because she honestly fell IN love with him as oppposed to just having a measure of love for a good man and realizing that such as Aragorn, her first love was forever out of her doom.

I think Aragorn was never her first love. She did not love him, she merely loved the life of honour & glory he could lead her too. It was simply pure attraction, instead of love. How could she love him, when she did not even know him?

In the end, on the walls of Minas Tirith, she realized this and her heart changed - her attraction to Aragorn changed into the love that one might feel for one's King or Queen.

I do think she really loved Faramir, after all they had talked very much when they were both patients in the Houses of Healing - they both opened their hearts for each other, and came to understand each other's burdens and pain, which eventually culminated in love.

I also think that much of Éowyn's early anguish and desperation was due to Gríma Wormtongue's poison. Indeed, he did not only have poison for Théoden's ears... this may have largely contributed to why she decided to die in battle on the Pelennor Fields, apart from Aragorn scorning her.

Though Aragorn physically healed her after her stand-off during battle, it was Faramir who finally cured her mind, washed it away of all the poison. Faramir ultimately was the one who made her heart change.

I am still not sure whether her willingness to fight and do great deeds (confer her cage-speech in the Passing of the Grey company chapter in ROTK) was something in her character, something she had longed for since she was a child -perhaps to avenge her father- or something to compensate for the fact that the House of Éorl -in her eyes- had fallen deeper than a shepherd's cot.

Considering her heritage and experiences, I think it was a combination of both.

As for my pick for broken hearts, I have always found the story of Aragorn & Arwen particularly touching...
I would agree with you guys on Eowyn, but there is another I thought of first, I'm not sure if you would call it broken heartedness, but I always thought Gollum was one of the saddest, most broken characters.
Oh Vir,
that was a beautiful description of Eowyn and I must say you have swayed me completely. That is a good feeling.Faramir was such a good man, a very sweet and noble and good man. She could not do better.
I do believe that the needing to fight and h ave some sort of renown was probably in the genes, it was just a natural thought for her even as a little girl. To avenge her parents was a natural consequence of t his that was already deep in her noble blood.
As for Gullum, I have mixed feelings. It seems to me that his natural curiousity was strange as a youngun and might have begun the process of his getting into trouble. But he merely in my opinion did to Deagle that which was deep in his heart. His heart was intrinsically selfish and he did not care about a person's life above his own selfish desires. I understand the power of the ring. But afterall he did have freedom of will at the beginning to at least not murder someone over it. He was a person that was eaten up by h is own lusts.
The song about him , I cannot remember the girl who sang it, is very very sad, I remember crying when I first heard it.
It is very touching and sad about Lady Arwen and Aragorn, both of them are so sensitive and gentle and kind and brave that it is hard not to be touched by their love and sacrifices their pain.
Dear Leelee,

as for Éowyn you might perhaps be interested in this thread : Concerning Éowyn.

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As for Gullum, I have mixed feelings. It seems to me that his natural curiousity was strange as a youngun and might have begun the process of his getting into trouble. But he merely in my opinion did to Deagle that which was deep in his heart. His heart was intrinsically selfish and he did not care about a person's life above his own selfish desires. I understand the power of the ring. But afterall he did have freedom of will at the beginning to at least not murder someone over it. He was a person that was eaten up by h is own lusts.

Gandalf made it clear in the chapter The Shadow of the Past in the beginning of FOTR that Sméagol was from the beginning a very mischievous boy, and henceforth used the One Ring for his tricks and pranks as soon as he got hold of it...

So I tend to believe that the One Ring abused the mischief in Sméagol's heart and turned it into malice. Perhaps the One Ring had given him visions of intricate tricks he would be able to play on his fellows... since Sméagol did not know the history and danger of the One Ring -contrary to Gandalf, Galadriel and Sam who did, and henceforth were able to deny it- he had no real chance of resisting the temptation.

He fell from the very beginning, as soon as he saw it lying in the hand of Déagol.

Mind though, even Gandalf and Galadriel would fall for the Ring -given time- but since their minds were so strong, it would take very long. Since Sméagol did not have even the slightest of their stature, he was immediately subdued. The One Ring exploited the 'weakness' in his mind -his mischief- and used it to take over his mind.

Given time, Gandalf might have fallen for the willingness to do good, whilst for instance Elrond or Galadriel would fall for the willingness to keep their hidden realms unharmed from the flows of time for ever.
For broken hearts, I would choose Melian the Maia, for she lost first her daughter, and then her husband, the former to Fate, and the latter to folly. It must've been very hard to bear, especailly because she is divine and one who belongs to the light will no doubt be especially hurt by darkness. And afterwards when she was in Valinor herself, it must've been agonizing for her to stand by the thick walls of Mandos and think that she is so close (and so far ) to her loved ones.

But there are too many broken hearts in Tolkien's books. Everyone loses something to gain more. But of course, some people gain sorrow after giving up their joy. Some other touching ones are Morwen and Hurin, Finwe, Maglor, Turin, Sam, Faramir, Aragorn and Elrond. Of these, I find Morwen and Hurin especially heartrending. To be separated, and then reunited, but only after the whole family's ruin, is a horribly dark path to tread, not to mention the torture Hurin had to undergo in Morgoth's hands, and the humiliation our proud Morwen had to endure before the bitter end.

And I applaud the Eowyn case, too. Really Leelee, how could you ever have thought that Eowyn didn't love Faramir? I know the movie doesn't really show it, but to one who has read the books so meticulously, surely you can detect love between Eowyn and Faramir? I feel really happy for both of them, for at least they had a happy ending.
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And afterwards when she was in Valinor herself, it must've been agonizing for her to stand by the thick walls of Mandos and think that she is so close (and so far ) to her loved ones.

I think though that Melian's mistress would allow her to either join her husband in the Halls if he was not willing to return from it, or that Elu Thingol would be granted leave from Mandos's Halls after a period of reconciliation.

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I know the movie doesn't really show it, but to one who has read the books so meticulously, surely you can detect love between Eowyn and Faramir?

Since I have only watched the theatrical version, I need to ask : was there anything of the romance shown in the (special) extended edition of the movie? Thank you.

Back to broken hearts, I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned Finrod, who (it seems) had to leave behind his betrothed who was of the Vanyar... though he was as wise as his father, he did not stay behind with his beloved in his beloved City... and why? Purely out of love for his siblings and the sons of Fingolfin who were as dear as brothers to him.

Let's hope for dear Finrod that his Amarië did not marry somebody else whilst he was busy elsewhere. Elven women can be so fickle.
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Virumor
Since I have only watched the theatrical version, I need to ask : was there anything of the romance shown in the (special) extended edition of the movie? Thank you.


yess the special edition (unfortunately) does show bits of their romance.... It prevents the movie from ending that much sooner....
Maybe I'll watch the EE of the RotK tonight while awaiting the Spaceneedle fireworks to begin, if I don't find something better on TV tonight. (It is just after three as I write this.) If I do watch it I'll try and time the duration of their interchange, for I haven't watched it for a couple years. (I watched Return of the Jedi last weekend for the first time in years and still think it a much better movie the three prequels.)
The reason I questioned Eowyn's feelings about Faramir is because of her history since very young. A person does not usually simply change who they truly are deep inside overnight if you will. I don't doubt she loved Faramir and probably thanked him deep inside for saving her really.Aragorn could heal her wounds but it took Faramir to bring healing to her broken heart.
But the SORT of love is what I questioned in my own heart. Was it a love of gratitude and having listened to his words , finally of seeing herself more clearly, from a different set of eyes; or was it simply her finally letting go of her ideal and Aragorn being part of it and steeling herself to in her usual stoic way accepting what was and making the best of it. All the while having A love for him, but being in love with him, I could not tell. We are all such complex creatures.
It seemed to me it took a lot for Faramir to get her to commit to him, I guess that was the basis really for my anxiety over their love. I had no doubt that as time went by they would find much to laugh about and do and grow together in , but........well it was just a question from my own heart really.
I agree with you Leely.I have quiestioned Eowyn's feelings towards Faramir as well.I find it hard to believe how a stong woman like her whoose dream was glory and great deeds even with death as a prise,fell in love with a man whoose character was different than Aragorn's the man she fist loved. I wonder how someone can change his/her feeling so quicly.I am sure that their life as husband and wife was happy,it surpises me how a woman so adventurous could live a life peaceful and calm.As you said my friend we humans are strange beings indeed...
Well she knew Grima was no longer available and as this was many many years before women's lib so her brother the king had to okay her choice, and there wern't that many other prince types around. Those from Harad and the Southron environs had harems so Faramir was the best available; she decided to make a job of it. Besides which, the book's Faramir was friendly, kind to dumb animals and hobbits, could recite poetry and hold his own in a conversation, his visa card had a large unused credit limit, and rather than pitying her, he like her. In addition he wasn't all that bad looking; and she figured she could house train him given a year or two.
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Back to broken hearts, I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned Finrod, who (it seems) had to leave behind his betrothed who was of the Vanyar... though he was as wise as his father, he did not stay behind with his beloved in his beloved City... and why? Purely out of love for his siblings and the sons of Fingolfin who were as dear as brothers to him.


Don't think that I haven't thought of Finrod, Vir. I did, but I thought Finrod underwent this slow torture quite well, building the largest Elvish kingdom in Middle-Earth and having debates with wisewomen, and even when he died, he seemed at peace (possibly because it would bring him closer to his beloved).



oh that is a perfect one Finrod, yes he made me cry a lot. I am always amazed at how dear Tolkien could so understand and describe both the grief of a man and his thoughts and that of a woman and hers so elequently.
But I think he meditated a lot on his mother and father's love. He once said that they had in fact 'saved' one another. And his mother gave up a lot converting to Catholicism. And the pain of heart of his father standing there saying goodbye to his beloved cherished wife and sons and I have always thought in my heart he encouraged them to leave at that particular time because he was aware of something going terribly wrong inside of him and wanted them to be with family if his thoughts were correct and not stuck in South Africa, no matter how nice, alone with no husband, no father to look after t hem. It is just my thoughts about him.
And then watching his mama, the joy of his life deteriorate and admire her for refusing any more help from h er family and chosing instead to strike out on h er own with her bairns. And the poverty.Then her dreadful ugly death and then that totally Beren moment when he saw Edith standing in the boarding house. Their being torn apart because the priest and probably rightly so, wanted him to finish his education and be a certain age before h e made that huge commitment. Always a tearing and grief and sometimes the joy of reunions. And after him obeying the father and waiting, only to find out Edith was goint to marry another fellow.
Then, just like his heros he did something about it. He won her heart back and asked her to convert. Unbelievable really.
Finrod was a most enchanting and deep and pure sort of person in the way he thought and responded to th ings. Good good choice.
Then there is Hugo Weaving, whose wife of many centuries left him to go back to the old country and he couldn't go with her because of some elven heirloom he had to use to maintain his enclave at Rivendell. And when events finally allowed him to follow his wife, his beloved daughter chose become mortal and run off with some newly crowned king of a broken-down kingdom of men, such that he'd never get to see her or his grand kids again. Especially if his two sons who also stayed behind missed the last boat. For crying out loud, no wonder he was such a grouch; everyone he ever loved ran out on him.
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Then there is Hugo Weaving, whose wife of many centuries left him to go back to the old country and he couldn't go with her because of some elven heirloom he had to use to maintain his enclave at Rivendell.

The person you have in mind is not Hugo Weaving... any woman would leave such a horrible man as in PJ's adaptation.

I shan't even mention Mr Weaving's almost literally trying to push Arwen on a grey ship to get her away from the Ranger as quickly as possible.

Pah!
Oooooo! He bit, didn't he. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

Yes, I should have written "Elrond" instead of Mr. Smith, but I think Elrond could also be considered heart-broken, which is what this thread is about.
Elrond's never ending brokeness was so painful to me long after I had read the books and long after I saw the movie I had a sorrowful feeling about h im that stayed day after day for a long long time.
I often wondered if the boys stayed behind for their love of Arwen, but I wonder, because their deep love of their mother caused them to avenge h er a hundred times over, so I would like to think that after the great battle of that age they left, knowing their sister had chosen wisely , fulfilled prophecy, was totally smitten with her choice whom they also loved, and went home to hold their beloved mother in their arms. At least the four would have each other through the ages. That comforted me. So .......I suppose I refuse to think on any other possibility.
We are two romantics at heart Leelee. Happy Elf Smilie
Elrond's attachment to his daughter in the movies seemed almost unhealthy to me. He appeared like a stereotyped overprotective dad one can usually see in soap operas, one who waits til his daughter comes home from a date and constantly flashes the door lights to ensure that the date will certainly end with a mere chaste kiss on the cheek.

On another note, one can wonder why Elrond in the movies allowed Arwen to chase after the Ringwraiths, considering the overprotectiveness he displayed later on. Add another discrepancy to the movie scenario.

Fathers have to let their daughters go to live their own lives, especially when they are already over two thousand years old. Their daughters are not possessions one can keep in a closet, they're living beings with feelings and desires of their own (Thingol's attachment to Luthien is almost as distressing as Elrond's).

Though I think Elrond's overly attachment to his daughter is a natural consequence of the fact that he had 'lost' his wife, even though they'd been together for over 2500 years themselves and would again be reunited in the Undying Lands. A less considerate person than me could call Elrond a crybaby.
I was just thinking about the Eowyn and Faramir bonding. Maybe her warrior-like tendancies were a result of such a harsh history? She became unhappy and discontent because of Wormtongue's influence, needed to get away from all the chaos and despair at home, honed her fighting skills in defiance of what she should be doing, saw Aragorn as a way out and when that was denied her she focused on fighting and dying in battle. After she was healed, physically and spiritually, she reverted back to the typical Rohan daughter-of-a-king and thus was able to appreciate and love Faramir?

I hate to say it but I wholeheartedly agree with Vir's comments on Eowyn/Faramir and Aragorn/Arwen (whose romance is the saddest in LotR. I think there are sadder ones in the Sil but I'll have to leave that for later.)
You put forth a very good argument Vee, I see roasting and eating has not dulled your keen mind.Smile Smilie
But if you go back to the heros of her 'house' it seems to me that the men all had certain characteristis, and because it was men mostly that were described you cannot really say about the women. However blood is blood and I am inclined to think that that warrior dna was very very strong in her. But I think you have a good point about the harshness of h er life. Still, I don't know how young she was when her mama and daddy died, but I think she may have seen enough of their love for one another to decide early on as many little girls do what sort of man she wanted. A brave and noble fighter like her daddy , one who loved his woman and was her ideal of what a husband should be.
Aragorn more than fitted that. And while he could do a poem as well as any elf if it came to that, at the time she met him he somehow fit her ideal and she was smitten on many levels. It just bothers me that in the House of healing , well on the little walks and standing looking out she was kind to Faramir that is true, but she was so focused on Aragorn and other private thoughts that she didn't exactly take one look at the guy and fall head over h eels. It came down to the, to me, humiliating moment when dear Faramir, one of my all time favorite characters, basically had to force her to make a choice, didn't he?
I don't know, I never get any other feeling when I read those passages. And in my own life I have some friends who were head over heels in love with a guy for a long long time and when it became obvious to woman he was not going to pick h er after all, they , each and every one of them in time met a really great man and although I saw that they laughed together and had quite a nice life with him, each one sometimes had a certain look in the depths of her eyes that disturbed me. And I thought that somehow each had settled for the good man she was with and secretly grieved , wh en she let herself, about the other.
It is just a feeling.

And dearest Vir,
if I didn't think you were endearing before I surely do now. Do you have any children, any daughters? That bit about Arwen being two thousand years old and needing to be allowed to make her own decisions and way in life is priceless. The BEST. It will make me smile forever.

Grondy, I KNEW you were a romantic. I think I thought it when I read what you said about the gifts you gave to the ladies in your life, wife and daughter, do I have that right? That is wonderful. And yes I am too. sniff, makes life a bit difficult for me now and then.
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Still, I don't know how young she was when her mama and daddy died, but I think she may have seen enough of their love for one another to decide early on as many little girls do what sort of man she wanted. A brave and noble fighter like her daddy , one who loved his woman and was her ideal of what a husband should be.

Her father Éomund was slain in 3002 T.A., when Éomer was 11 years old and his little sister 7 years old.

Shortly thereafter, Théodwyn died of sickness/grief and Théoden took his cousins into his household.

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It came down to the, to me, humiliating moment when dear Faramir, one of my all time favorite characters, basically had to force her to make a choice, didn't he?

I did not think that was a humiliating moment; it was basically a psychological crossroads for Éowyn, where she had to decide between her true feelings for Faramir which would lead her to happiness, and the chimera of a life together with Aragorn which was impossible. At that moment she realized what she really felt and thought she felt... it was only a necessary step for Éowyn to gain some wisdom.

One must not forget that Éowyn was only 23 years old during the War of the Ring and though she may have experienced a lot of court politics in Edoras, I doubt she knew much about the intricate feelings involving courtship.
That is true, but I am troubled that a man older than her, such as Faramir was, was he not, and much more worldly put her in that situation when , if you are correct, she knew nothing about love or relationships. It seems to me it would have been better for her to find h erself after the war and get to know lots of people, learn who Eowyn herself really was and th en make a decision about a guy. It just bothers me that she was rushed into something that she may have deeply regretted down the line. I know what dear Tolkien says but I am not sure if that was really what might have happened.But .......who knows really......
We also have to take into account that the Professor wished to provide the readers with a happy end, hence he could not really leave Eowyn and Faramir behind all alone... especially since both had just lost somebody dear to them.

And for the same, I do not think Faramir knew much about love and relationships either... he had more pressing matters to attend to than running after (silk?) skirts. Come to think of it, no one in LOTR seemed to know anything about romance safe perhaps Aragorn, who after all managed to pick the most precious flower from Elrond's garden.

But of course, that's due to the fact that Arwen was quite clueless about romance herself...
Perhaps not silk Vir, I think no silk worms hung out in middle earth. Perhaps just linen or cotton.
Honestly though what an excellent point. No one really did know much about courtship or such because of the times they were living in. How could they and then when their heart did tell them someone that suddenly came into their life was 'the one' they just grabbed the moment and carried on living. I think of how dear Tolkien and Edith stole every moment they could to spend together in friendship and budding sweet and noble love. It was the times then for them too.

One of the most devestating cases of broken heart that, really, affected not only the person's child but the taking of the throne, well in my opinion, was poor Erendis who suffered so much from Aldarion over such a long time that I felt quite sick at the end of the tale.I wish the records Aldarion wrote of his journeys to Middle-earth were not lost from Romenna, it would have made trying to understand him and the great urgency and need of Cirdon the Shipwright for his aid.
But why,why did he take this woman to be his wife. He knew she loved the land and was smitten by him, he could have done the loving thing and simply told her he was married to the sea and totally committed to helping do what he could for Middle-earth. Then another could have taken his place.
The way things ended she was bitter beyond words and a former shadow of herself, locked away in that house of just women. And poor little Ancalame, learning to hate men, then despising both parents as she saw both their stubborn selfish behaviour. And then what happened to her....it is too humiliating to even think about.
So Erendis's broken heart is very memorable to me and gives me great pain whenever I read it.
And her fate always makes me cry: (SPOILER, DONT READ IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE STORY)
Of erendis it is said tht when old age came upon her, neglected by Ancalime and in bitter loneliness, she longed once more for Aldarion; and learning thta he was gone from Numenor on wht proved to be his last voyage but that he was expected to return, she left Emerie at last and journeyed unrecognised and unknown to the haven......
she ended up perishing in water. how absolutely dreadful for her. It claimed her husband away from her and it claimed her life ultimately.
Yes, even Professor Tolkien could write the proper Greek...er Númenorian tragedy.
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Yes, even Professor Tolkien could write the proper Greek...er Númenorian tragedy.

Twould be Greek if Erendis would have thrown a net over Aldarion whilst he was taking a bath, followed by whacking off his head.

All those years at sea and warmongering on the coastal cities of Middle-earth, not to mention returning home with the insane, prescient daughter of a conquered King as a concubine would incense every neglected Queen.

Hell hath no wrath as a woman scorned.

That said, why has nobody already mentioned Túrin & Níniel, or Húrin & Morwen, or Huor & Rían?

Really, those histories are even able to induce some microscopical cracks in the stone I call my heart.
If your dear heart is a stone Vir, then I am a happy and fulfilled Orc. And that is never going to be.
No way. Shocked Smilie

I think when Sam and dear Frodo were waiting to die after the ring had fallen fallen into the firey deep and they were sure they had come to the end of all things, the speech that Samewise made really hurt my heart. I think at that moment, though he had been totally faithful to his mission and to Frodo whom he loved dearly, the thought or what to him at that moment was the awful realization he would never behold the face of Rosie Cotton again or hold her or tell her he loved her just shattered his gentle, noble heart. It was really very very broken in that dark hour.
I see noone has mentioned Gimli's broken heart, loving the unattainable and having to think of the beautiful Lady forever in vain. Or how about the dwarf that was caught and had to take whomever(I get some of these stories mixed up) to h is cave and their his son dies from the arrow from a man whom he curses dreadfully. His heart was very very broken was it not?
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I see noone has mentioned Gimli's broken heart, loving the unattainable and having to think of the beautiful Lady forever in vain. Or how about the dwarf that was caught and had to take whomever(I get some of these stories mixed up) to h is cave and their his son dies from the arrow from a man whom he curses dreadfully. His heart was very very broken was it not?


I do no think that Gimli loved galadriel liked, say a lover would love his lover(?), but more like the love other character have for aragorn. As for the other dwarf that was mim the petty dwarf of beleriand and the killer was a man from the band of turin and that story is from the children of hurin.
Gimli held Lady Galadriel in great reverence, like JRRT held the Holy Virgin in reverence or the Knights of the Round Table (safe Lancelot) held Queen Gwenhwyfar in reverence, that is all. There was no romantic love involved, imo.

Gimli'd continue to hold her in reverence, for as long as he lived, even after she had left Middle-earth.
thank you vir for meaning exactly what i meant and not meaning something alse.
a reverent type of love is still love on a higher plane. And the thought of never beholding her again hurt his heart didn't it? It was still a wound and I doubt that it ever left his heart.Pain is pain I think, no matter the type.
Too bad for him. He should have chosen the Evening over the Morning.

And at any rate, it's no use crying over spilt milk. Sometimes one must move on instead of indulging in Wertherian soliloquys.
if I knew what that was I would heartily agree with you. I am not that learned in some areas of my life obviously, while you are like the sun in a pavillion- you just blaze on and on.
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if I knew what that was I would heartily agree with you.

Werther was the antagonist in a semi-autographical novel by Goethe, The Sorrows of Young Werther. In it, his love In Love Smilie wasn't reciprocated; thus he wrote many letters to a male friend agonizing over this. I haven't read it either, but I can google and wiki. Wiggle Smilie Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
ah Grondy, how kind of you. I will read it when I have time. Time, oh how I wish one could purchase it at the store. I should always save a lot of my money to buy it and I would use it ever so carefully. sigh.......
Theoden, I think, might be a good candidate for a good broken heart. I mean things so conspired to overthrow him and he had to live with the consequences. I think he was quite broken on a lot of levels. I know you will probably laugh, but when I viewed it at the cinema, Iwas with a male member of my family, and Theoden said(Return of the King) the same as he said when he came out of the spell placed upon him by Saruman " I know your face" to Eowyn I completely broke down. It was embarrassing since half a row turned round and stared at me. Some actually were of a mind to comfort me. That was even more embarrassing. Sad Smilie
Leelee: When out in public 'twould be better to have tucked a few hankies up your sleeve, rather than wearing your heart on it, so when you break down in public, you're prepared for a good cry. Or to simplify this: 'Instead of wearing your heart on your sleeve, tuck a few hankies up it.'

A good cry wounds all heels.
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ah Grondy, how kind of you. I will read it when I have time. Time, oh how I wish one could purchase it at the store. I should always save a lot of my money to buy it and I would use it ever so carefully. sigh.......

No no no, dear Leelee, this book -and lots of other world literature- is distributed freely as e-book on Project Gutenberg.

I gladly provide the link to Goethe's very first novel, one of the proponents of Sturm und Drang and partly autobiographical. Needless to say, tis one of my favourite books : The sorrows of young Werther.

And of course, there is The sorrows of young Maeglin.

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A good cry wounds all heels.

No woman, no cry.

Indeed, twas PJ's spouse, Ms Fran Walsh, who provided the cry of them Nazgul, was it not?
thank you dear Vir, I should appreciate that, I mean that.
I came across this thread and I propose another broken-heartedness which affects me more deeply and enduringly than all so far discussed. That is Denethor, Last Steward of Gondor. He lost his wife, sacrificed his firstborn son, Boromir and had a broken relationship with Faramir. Because of the fell events in ME and his disastrous use of the palantir, the seemingly inescapable doom of Gondor and the enslavement of all his people to the evil of Mordor broke his heart beyond repair. Long years pondering this fate and unable to devise a strategy to avoid disaster took his broken heart down to despair, to the point of murder/suicide.

Many times, unrelieved broken-heartedness brings on a madness which destroys the life of the person. Gandalf was wise indeed and all would do well to ponder and hold fast to his words when he said; "It is not despair, for despair is for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not." If Gandalf and the Wise, with the experience and wisdom of ages of life, could not see the end beyond all doubt, then we as mortals surely cannot.

Tolkien proposes that we carry on taking heart from that very seeming flaw of lack of foreknowledge. For as catastrophe is an unforseen disastrous event, there is such a thing as a "euchastrophe", an unforseen sudden stroke of a wonderous event. The events of Denethor's life and death are a reminder that he held out to within a few days of the euchastrophic downfall and destruction of Sauron. He quite simply gave up too soon. And if we die waiting for the euchastrophy? Well, then, we have lived a life of hope and working diligently for the good. Even then, Iluvatar will remake the world and bring forth new music.
Oh how wonderfully put that was Halbard. Truly you have touched on the very essence of what "Fairie really is.It is walking in a perilous land and never knowing what is going to come at you, but knowing deep within your heart to this you were born and live. You must walk through it for at the end is the thing hoped for, the something a little better, the something golden and precious, perhaps freedom, perhaps a dream come true, a loved one loving you in return.
But in all perilous realms you have at least one enemy that for no reason other than pure malice is not willing that you should know the kindness of Someone you cannot see, touch or know much about. And perhaps you fall and it might seem that is all for you, but you have paved the way for someone else that matters to you to reach that goal. Therein lies victory against the enemy. Or perhaps you have long given up all hope but when things are so dark and bleak from out of nowhere comes the answer or help and the miraculous truly does happen.
So to quit not only stops any hope of the thing longed for, it often delays for many their hopes and desires coming true as well. It is always better to try at least.I honestly believe that.
Leelee anad Halbard, you've both had beautiful words and I'm sincerely glad that I logged on tonight.

Leelee, when I feel life to be a perilous road, it will be easier to be hopeful and have peace of heart.

Halbard, I had never thought of Denethor in this light. I had just assumed him to be selfish and grasping and unpleasant. You do him justice as the steward of Gondor who faithfully held the realm together even though it was not his own but another's to rule.

Thank you both!
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Tolkien proposes that we carry on taking heart from that very seeming flaw of lack of foreknowledge. For as catastrophe is an unforseen disastrous event, there is such a thing as a "euchastrophe", an unforseen sudden stroke of a wonderous event. The events of Denethor's life and death are a reminder that he held out to within a few days of the euchastrophic downfall and destruction of Sauron. He quite simply gave up too soon. And if we die waiting for the euchastrophy? Well, then, we have lived a life of hope and working diligently for the good. Even then, Iluvatar will remake the world and bring forth new music.

I read what you wrote Halbard.. some days ago and I got very emotional when I did ..because as Leelee said you put it so beautiful ..Sometimes we do give up to soon and cannot see if it's worth figthing for..and everything get harder and harder to cope with. I think Sméagol did that as well , when he couldn't live among his relatives anylonger and hid in the mountains..I believe that his story is maybe the sadest of them all..though the Ring made him feel like that not the people around him..
Thank you both Halbard and Leelee for sharing the words
Well as Grondy says I should have the handkerchiefs ready, but I have tears right now reading what you all have written. No matter where each of us lives, no matter how seemingly simple a life m ight be or hard, old or young, we all face the same issues really in one way or another and the way can seem so obscure and lonely and bitter. But I learned something from someone a while back-learn to love yourself for then you can love others and go on, and learn to like your own company. Because when noone else understands the road you have taken and must walk no matter what the end results simply because you must-your heart cries out to you, then the only one you might have for a while is yourself. And if you can enjoy your own company and encourage your very own self you have a very good chance of making it.
I remember a guy who I think was a firefighter and we know they have to be very physically fit.
(speaking of that our country is grieving the loss of two fire chiefs burned to death a couple of days ago in a fire), well he was badly hurt and was parapalegic. He was destroyed in mind. But one night a scripture came to him " through God all things are possible." So he said to God that he would at least give that a try and if it did not work out at least he would have the knowledge he did all he personally could. He told his physiotherapist he wanted h er to prepare a workout for someone who could actually move but was simply injured. She thought him mad but did it. For a long time he had his legs and back moved but could feel nothing. He studied up on nutrition that might aid his injury and applied it. It was the most painful thing for family and friends to witness but at least it gave him something to do. Then about one year later, almost to the day he went in his wheelchair in to the physio room and taking the bars, stood up him self. And then he took his first two steps. And the wierdest thing, after he did that he could faintly feel his legs. Each day after that he improved a minute bit. In another year he was walking, not perfectly but he was walking and was strong and healthy and could feel his nerves once more.
Maybe that was always going to happen, but still he walked toward it and considered it as nothing to get upset about that everyone thought him mad, that noone was on his side.
That is to me the way to live.
As for Denethor I agree that he was shattered and the very fact that he had had a sort of contact with the enemy and was not instantly blotted out says something for the strength of his character and it seems to me that after his wife died his whole world became one of brooding and introspection. Boromir seemed in a way to be who he was living vicariously through and with the loss of him it was as if h e himself was forever lost. I cried a lot for him.That whole family seemed so tragic-it was truly a miracle that Faramir lived to even have a chance at happiness at the most fortuitous of times, after the great battle of their age.
It is so good to be in the company of those who know what it is to walk through the darkness when the light is still out of sight ahead. By the way, "euchatastrophe" is another of Tolkien's words not mine. Another thing that I have learned and have been pondering lately is the immense value of the small joys of the moment in our days. The flowers colorful in the sun, birds singing, children laughing and other "little" things that may be scorned by some but are in truth, healing for our souls. If we can only put aside the larger things that may not be going well in order to focus for the moment on the small joys then we are paradoxically better able to cope with the larger world and find insight that we need.
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