Login | Register
 
Message Board | Latest Posts | Your Recent Posts | Rules

Thread: Would JRR Tolkien approved the films

Is this discussion interesting? Share it on Twitter!

Bottom of Page    Message Board > General Discussion > Would JRR Tolkien approved the films   << [1] [2] [3] [4] >>
In my opinion, I'm sure all things considered, he would have approved. The man doesn't need to be alive and watching over every little detail in the movie to make sure that it works, all that matters is that the director and the people working on it have a love for the piece, and PJ has said numerous times that he adores LOTR's. As a connection between the idea that you don't need to supervise the film for it to work, Margaret Mitchell, the postAuthorID of Gone with the Wind, sold the rights and didn't even go to the showing of the film, yet it turned out extremely well done and very close to the origonal concept of the piece.

As for JRRT, I'm sure he would have his qualms, but not too many. I mean, when I first saw the Shire and Rivendell, and numerous other places, they were awe inspiering, and almost exactly what I had pictured in my mind when I first read the books. Now, I'm not JRRT, but if the mental image I got was the same as the one PJ got and numerous other folk got, well then, I think they did a **** fine job.

If I was he, and I'm not (curses!) the only things that would really peeve me would be messing with some of the characters, (cough cough ARWEN) giving people biggers roles than nessicary or even what was writen is just wrong, and I hate it, being female and all, and rather activist-y, but her role in the book was sitting at table, and then marrying Aragorn, not being some crazy heroine, no matter how much women want their fair share in the movie, just wait for Eowyn. (That all made sense in my head, sorry your not here to comprehend what I was trying to get across Wink Smilie )

And then I come to my next point. In response to all this talk about Eowyn and Aragorn have a romantic connection, I hope to God that doesn't happen. I got the feeling (when I read the books) that he was slightly inclined to her for whatever reason, but never made any moves. So, I guess for this qualm, we're all going to have to wait until we see the movie to truely be ****** or pleased with it.

And now, I believe that's all I have to say about that... Big Smile Smilie

[Edited on 17/12/2002 by QueenPippin]

(Grondy merely asterisked out a couple words in keeping with our newest policy not to give hints to the forbiden words even if they are as mild as these were.) Teacher Smilie

[Edited on 18/12/2002 by Grondmaster]
QueenPippin may I say firstly, a very big welcome from Planet Tolkien. We have a lot of features here and I hope you enjoy them.

As far as your defence of PJ goes, I agree fully. Having seen his comments on the extended DVD, he is obviously a true Tolkien fan, and yet within his line of business, he realises certain cuts must be made to make his version of the movie. He realises what makes a great book doesn't necessarily make a great movie.

I think like the rest of us, he would have liked to stick as close as possible to the world that JRR wrote, but being an experienced director he realised this wasn't possible. His forte is in producing movies. In my opinion he has done a wonderful job here, possibly better than JRR would have done himself.

As far as JRR is concerned, he was raised in a world devoid of the computerised special effects we are now used to. If he could see the films, he would most likely be unhappy with the changes (I as a writer am unhappy with any changes anyone suggests to my work), but hopefully he would differentiate between the two artforms of creating literature and making movies.

JRR wrote a wonderful story. PJ made a wonderful film (or series of) They are interconnected, but both demand different accolades. In my opinion both JRR and PJ are deserving in massive recognition for what they have created in their own fields. I think had JRR been a successful film director, rather than a writer, he would have been more than happy with the film. In my opinion, PJ has shown far more respect to the original work than most producer would have.
Welcome to our forum QueenPippin. Happy Elf Smilie

Good post, by the way. Now if PJ's version of TTT is as well done as his FotR we will be in for a treat as would be JRRT, were he able to watch the opening today.
Welcome QueenPippen! Nice to have you with us!

I think you're right Grondmaster, I think that this will be a great movie even with the changes. PJ worked really hard on the little things, like speaking Elvish, so any small changes are OK with me. Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie

To bad JRRT can't join us. Sad Smilie
Well, even if J.R.R. did not like the changes that PJ has made, I believe he would have loved the settings that PJ created of ME. To me they were absolutely amazing in FOTR and I hope they are the same way in TTT. I did not get to go like I had planned. My hubby took the tickets back that I bought. I was disappointed, but would much rather see it with him. I kinda like have a date with my hubby. lol
I don't think JRRT would have approved of the films - though I wouldn't go as far as saying he would've hated it. Actually he might be content with PJ's version - it's not the worst possible senario if you think of the disaster and utter insult to Tolkien's masterpiece had it fallen into the wrong hands. I vaguely remember reading something awhile back before the movie was made on Tolkien's opinion of "That infernal mouse" way back when Disney wanted to get their grubby little paws on the film rights (just imagine those cutesy little cartoon hobbits dancing around to a sing-a-long Disney kiddies song and little elves flitting about like fairies - no no it's too awful, make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Exploding Head Smilie
and I could be mistaken but I think JRRT approved of the artist who made the animated version.

IMHO PJ's biggest mistake was expanding Arwen's role at the expense of the other more important ones. (JRRT probably would've been devastated to find that Tom had been left out - as I think he represented the earth in its most natural, purist form - living in complete harmony with nature instead of expecting it to make way for 'civilisation')

Don't get me wrong, I really loved the movie, but part of me wishes it was never made as it robs us of the greatest thing that the book inspires and that is our own imagination... especially for those who have not read the book yet.

Quote:
(just imagine those cutesy little cartoon hobbits dancing around to a sing-a-long Disney kiddies song and little elves flitting about like fairies - no no it's too awful, make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I could not think of a worse fate than having the Disney Corp do an animated feature of our beloved Middle Earth adventures. They would have just trivialized a true work of genius.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I really loved the movie, but part of me wishes it was never made as it robs us of the greatest thing that the book inspires and that is our own imagination... especially for those who have not read the book yet.

I would like to hear from someone who read the book(s) for the first time after viewing PJ's movie. I suspect you are correct that they would see Tolkien's world as protrayed in the film. That being said, I found the art direction extremely well done and I saw the images that were in my mind spring to life. I, too, missed Tom Bombadil, but I am afraid he would not translate well onto the big screen. He would have come across as a silly character wearing yellow boots and a blue coat and a feather in his hat. The concept that Tom represents is too complex for a few minutes of screen time. I think PJ did us a favour by leaving Tom to our own imaginations.
Quote:
(just imagine those cutesy little cartoon hobbits dancing around to a sing-a-long Disney kiddies song and little elves flitting about like fairies - no no it's too awful, make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Exploding Head Smilie
and I could be mistaken but I think JRRT approved of the artist who made the animated version.


Don't have to imagine it, go check out the Rankin/Bass versions of The Hobbit and Return of the King, they ARE just as you describe.
As to Bakshi's animated Lotr, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's fantastic.
What is this "Bakshi's" LOTR's you speak of? Ooo, I'm intrigued... Dunce Smilie

Also, thank you's up and down for your hearty welcomes, I've never been in a nicer forum!

[Edited on 22/12/2002 by QueenPippin]
The Lord of the Rings Movie by Ralph Bakshi (1979) is an animated movie which in places is a bit disney and cutesy, but is worth owning for the opening sequence in red and black sillhouettes alone. It's also responsible for me being a Tolkienite in the first place.

It's available to buy again now (hmmmm... can't think why?) from all reputable video and DVD dealers, and most disreputable ones as well. I did bung a review of it up here once, I'll hunt out the link for you in a bit.
as promised, here's the link.

http://www.planet-tolkien.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=1

okay?
Thanks Plastic Squirrel. I looked for your review for nigh on 30 minutes with no luck as to where was it hiding, not remembering it was a news article. After reading it once more makes me want to dust off my copy and watch it again. Cool Elf Smilie
It wasn't a news article Grond, but the only way to find it now is to use the "search" option over on the left there, and put in your keywords (searching the reviews section).
Thanks for the review, Plastic. I have to admit that I was one of those who trashed the film upon 1st viewing, however, started to see the artistic merit in following viewings. I must now dig out my copy, dust if off and see it from your prospective. Smoke Smilie
It is a pretty revolutionary bit of film-making, even if you hate what he did to Tolkien, the rotoscoping is pretty clever (not lazy) and if you notice, it tends to be used when things are at their bleakest, thus helping the bleak theme come across better. Best Nazgul EVER!!!!
Yeah the Nazgul are good, but Sam is horrible! That was the one thing I didn't like about that movie. Big Smile Smilie
Well, the two towers doesn't follow the plot as much as it should. But I think that they did a really good job on Smeagol.
In response to Smeagol, I thought that at the begining of the movie Gollum/Smeagol seemed very obtrusive to the scenes and the viewers eye, being computer animated at all. He didn't seem to fit and rather he stuck out like a sore thumb. (I guess a sore thumb would stick out, now wouldn't it...) But, as the movie (that didn't stick to Tolkien's plot, I agree) continued, Gollum/Smeagol seemed to fit in and blend better as my eyes got more and more adjusted to him. At first he reminded me terribly of Doby from Harry Potter... (Hmm, am I allowed to metion the works of Rowling on a Tolkien site? Lighening Smilie Please spare me!)
Also, another note (I always seems to forget things I want to say.. curses to my lack of short term memory) Plastic Squirrel, fine review, and I shall defintely have to go out and find a copy Big Smile Smilie
Smeagol: Welcome to our forum. Happy Elf Smilie

QueenPippin: Yes, you are allowed to talk about JK Rowling's books on P-T; however, when doing it on the upper half of the forum, it should be as a comparison to Tolkien's books or their films. And in our Taverns you can talk about HP with almost no hindrance; just try to find a thread already open on the subject before starting a new one if you can. If not, open a new one. (Also you can use the edit button at the bottom of your posted comment if you think of something you want to add or modify without the appearance of forgetfulness.) Elf Winking Smilie

Thank you for aiding my in my confusion Wink Smilie My, I do feel sheepish now....
In his disgraceful version of the FOTR the opening scenes with the last alliance the Numenorians didn't have steel bows therefore erradicating any arguement that he researched Tolkien's works before filming his movies. The man is a pleb, down with PJ and his bad researching and terrible side plots.

[Edited on 17/1/2003 by Ross]
For those not yet in the know, Ross is our member who wishes PJ had not bothered to make his film versions of the books, or at least is most vocal about his dislike for all the changes that PJ made. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie The rest of us are thankful that we get to see many of the aspects of Tolkien's world and stories brought to life on the silver screen. Cool Elf Smilie
You're deluding yourself Grondy, you only think you like the films you don't really. d@mn jedi mind trick isn't working. Hey Plastic, Oy Plastic show me how you do it properly again!
You do really like the film, Ross. You do really like the film.

Oh well, I'm no Jedi either. Still, I think it would take more than Yoda to convince Ross that PJ made a wonderful film.

Serious question, Ross. If you had never read any Tolkien, and so had no comparisons, do you think you might have liked them?
Hum let me think NO he still adds nonsensical plots to boost his own ego.

Belive me you will, huwmmmmh.
Vive la Difference!!

*waves hand vaguely at Ross*
These are not the films you were looking for....
Mr. Jackson can go about his business...
LOL

mind tricks don't work on me only money.......
Who's mr Jackson what films?
Well, problem solved, except for Boring the Toydarian...
Celtavhc posted on 14/4/2003 at 23:24, which I have moved here from The Fellowship of the Ring under Tolkien and The Movies.
Quote:
Elf Confused Smilie I read in a website that Tolkien didn't like the idea of a LoTR movie, but that was back in the 70s. The question is: with the new cinema technology, special effects and the whole cast, would Tolkien have liked the movies?
P.S.: Sorry if this is old, but I wanna know what you think
Okay Celtavhc, you may read the above posts and I'm sure some of our newer people will also like to add their comments. Happy Elf Smilie
I don┤t think he would approve of a movie one bit! Propably because he is like me, he liked books more because you got to use your own imagination to create the world of M-E in your head instead of someone showing you THEIR imagination and therefore your own will be lost....this is what I believe is why he didn┤t want it to be a movie and neither would he know.....especially not with PJ┤s version....I think Tolkien would give him a call and really give him a lesson about what he did wrong....I mean I missed the Huorns in TT!!! And the Dr˙edain!!! but I have my books and I am glad....

And Ross.....keep up the fight against the brainwashed mob of PJ loversTongue SmilieTongue SmilieTongue SmilieTongue SmilieTongue Smilie

Hahahaha Orc Smiling Smilie

As to whether he would have approved of the films: In tolkien's biography humphrey carpenter explains that tolkien believed the requirement for selling the film rights would be either
A: a quality effort at transforming the novel into a movie.
or

B: A lot of money.

I believe Tolkien achieved both of those goals.
Aside from some hideous warner brothers cartoons, tolkiens work has been treated with the respect it deserves by both Bakshi and PJ. Both works leave the general scope and impact of the novel intact.
Welcome to PT remmit. Waving Hello Smilie
Quote:
As to whether he would have approved of the films: In tolkien's biography humphrey carpenter explains that tolkien believed the requirement for selling the film rights would be either
A: a quality effort at transforming the novel into a movie.
or

B: A lot of money.

I believe Tolkien achieved both of those goals.
Aside from some hideous warner brothers cartoons, tolkiens work has been treated with the respect it deserves by both Bakshi and PJ. Both works leave the general scope and impact of the novel intact.
It has! Well I must have been wrong about PJ deleting parts of the story, adding nonsensical side plots and just general line swaping. I'll have another look. Oh no, he has completely changed the story in a blatent effort to make money without doing any research!
Welcome to the forum Remmit. Happy Elf Smilie

As you can guess, Ross didn't like PJ's movies. Oh and those "warner brothers cartoons" were actually made by Rankin-Bass and followed the story lines fairly well, but being musicals, they weren't very good, IMHO.
Quote:
It has! Well I must have been wrong about PJ deleting parts of the story, adding nonsensical side plots and just general line swaping. I'll have another look. Oh no, he has completely changed the story in a blatent effort to make money without doing any research!


PJ did change the story to help improve the maketability of the films. He had an obligation to his investors ($320 million dollars worth of them) to mazimize the profits of the films. I also don't believe he changed plot lines and events out of a lack of research. If you read interviews with PJ about the process of adaptation it is clear that research was the back bone of his atempts to make the plot changes consistent with the world of middle earth.

So you know, I'm not a PJ worshiper. I left the two towers disgusted with the movie i.e. lack of the hourons at helms deep, the twisting of farimer into an adversary and the depiction of the ents as bumbling idiots. It is my hope that another theatrical version of the books will be made in my life time.

Overall though I think tolkiens masterwork was treated with more respect than I previously could have imagined.
What utter cack. His investors would be happy as long as they got a return. He didn't need to add andd change the story. This is why it is the best selling fiction book and has been for the past 49 years!
Quote:
I left the two towers disgusted with the movie i.e. lack of the hourons at helms deep, the twisting of farimer into an adversary and the depiction of the ents as bumbling idiots.


Welcome to the club, and welcome to PT remmit! Hope you like it here!
Happy Elf Smilie
Ross I agree with you. He didn't need to make many of the major changes that he did. I wish he hadn't. But he did and I don't think it was done for nefarious reasons. As a creative person I think it possible that he felt these changes were needed to help make the unfilmable filmable. Am I upset at some of these decisions? yes. Am I willing to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water? no!
PJ's films have compelled people who never would have read lotr to do so. It has lead poeple who don't read anything to read lotr. Because of the quality of these films lotr is reaching massive new audiances.

As with any cult following there is a tendancy in the lotr community to bar the doors to the masses. We seem at times to want to researve this "sacred" work for those who can show it the proper amount of almost almost
"religious" reverance. I resist this urge.

Elfstone: Thanks for the welcome. This is one tof the few Tolkiens forums that has anything inteligent to say. I'm glad I found it.
Quote:
PJ's films have compelled people who never would have read lotr to do so. It has lead poeple who don't read anything to read lotr. Because of the quality of these films lotr is reaching massive new audiances
This maybe the case, however my brother's father in law and his children are reading it because of the films. Yet they miss out the old forest section, because it's boring and not in the film. When I tried explaining how Tom is an important part of the story showing how the ring doesn't effect everything and that there is always someone more or of equal power to you. They repeated that they're not in the film. PJ and his evil spawn of movies are just bastardising the books for the masses. This I do not belive should happen. Tolkien wrote these works, not some morron third rate director of B-movies!
I think he would have liked the way Sam, Bilbo, Gollum and Boromir were done, as a I found them to be very true to the book. But I think he would be appalled at the changes made with Arwen and Faramir. I think he would have not liked Gimli and Legolas either.
I think he would have approved of the first movie more than the second movie.
I don't think JRRT would have approved of the movies(s) at all, because the movies don't follow the story of the book really well : no Old Forest, no Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, no Barrowdowns, a messed up Elrond and Faramir, Frodo at Osigliath, etc
And i think he would very much dislike the overblown action and misplaced humour which has nothing to do with the story. In my opinion, Tolkien wouldn't only approve of the movies, but he would also object to a movie being made about his masterpiece.
D@mn straight. PJ is getting critical aclaim, due to one thing. Special affects. It isn't the story, because it doesn't actually follow the book. This film is nothing more than Shrek, but without the wit, talent or story. yet again hear me cry "Feed him to the Sarlac!"
Quote:
he would also object to a movie being made about his masterpiece.


In Carpenter's biography of Tolien it is clear that Tolkien was not opposed to a movie being made from lotr. He was concerned that it take the story seriously.
In addition if he was againts a movie being made of his masterpiece then why did he sell the film rights?
Quote:
PJ's films have compelled people who never would have read lotr to do so. It has lead poeple who don't read anything to read lotr. Because of the quality of these films lotr is reaching massive new audiances.


I do not like the changes that PJ made, but I completely agree with you remmit. I am glad to see more people reading what JRRT wrote.
I don't think he would like the idea of his own books being made into movies,even if they where good or not.
I agree with you Mellie.
JRRT sold the movie rights in the sixties because he had money trouble.
Quote:
JRRT sold the movie rights in the sixties because he had money trouble.

no offense indented. what is you source for this? I've been heard it before and would like to learn the details of Tolkiens troubles.
I have seen an interview on bonfire night where Tolkien did say he didn't want his books to be made into a film.
  << [1] [2] [3] [4] >>