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Thread: MISSING THREADS?

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Ayslhyn, you have brought up good points that were discussed among the council. The decision that was finally made was that a discussion on those topics can happen if they are strickly Tolkien related, Not World related, and they need to be in the proper areas for that area of Tolkien's world. I hope this makes it a little clearer.
I am with you Aylshyn, although I understand the concern of the Council and it is true that there are other sites where we can discuss such topics as religion and politics. For me personally, this site is not only the source of knowledge about Tolkien, but also people from all over the world who got "hooked" by his masterpiece. Yes, we have much in common, but we also differ in many respects, and it was most fascinating for me to see how profound are some of these differences. I personally think that if we could discuss here also about politics and religion, on condition of showing caution not to offend anyone, goodwill, and, above all, willingness to learn something and not only to preach or (worse) to abuse those which do not share our views, this might provide a very good lesson of friendliness, tolerance and abuse-free dialogue for children which will visit this site!!!
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I personally think that if we could discuss here also about politics and religion, on condition of showing caution not to offend anyone, goodwill, and, above all, willingness to learn something and not only to preach or (worse) to abuse those which do not share our views, this might provide a very good lesson of friendliness, tolerance and abuse-free dialogue for children which will visit this site!!!


This is fantasy. It's a wonderful idea but would never work in practice. I've seen it happen over and over again. I've seen people go from civil discussion to heated debate to spiteful shouting in as many posts. At that point your merely communicating AT someone rather than WITH them and that is completely inconstructive.

Spirituality IS a significant part of Tolkien's world and I believe that discussions in that context are fine. In any other context, I've seen nothing but bad come from it.

I'm all for political and religious debate... surely over the past six months I've proven as much. But I support the council's assertion that those debates don't belong here on Planet-Tolkien. Nothing good has ever come from them here... and yes, that's a fact. If you want to talk politics, current events, religion, etc. there are PLENTY of other places to do just that. Unfortunately, they are full of profanity, hatred and bigotry and are really pretty useless. I don't want to see that happen here... do you?
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Just one question about Religion. Some of the Topics are about religion in Tolkien's works, and are intellegent discussions concerned with this. As these are directly Tolkien related, are they exempt from the ban?
This is a question I raised to the Council prior to us making these recent decisions. We decided that as long as the topic was of a "religion in Tolkien" theme, rather than just an excuse for a discussion about world religions, that was fine. It is then still a Tolkien related theme, the theme being Religion in Tolkien. It was also decided that should such threads lead to discussions about world religions, and the theme to Tolkien's works be lost, then I'm afraid the thread would be axed.
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It makes it no clearer. All you are seeking to do is impose limitations upon valid intellecual debate.
Have a think about it and define the limitations in greater clarity.
Does that make it any clearer for you Ayslhyn? The things you are arguing to keep have not been lost. We are asking that they are strictly Tolkien related, that is all.
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I personally think that if we could discuss here also about politics and religion, on condition of showing caution not to offend anyone, goodwill, and, above all, willingness to learn something and not only to preach or (worse) to abuse those which do not share our views, this might provide a very good lesson of friendliness, tolerance and abuse-free dialogue for children which will visit this site!!!
That is the policy we had ran up until now Eryan. In an ideal world I would agree with your view, but even in a community as close as ours, I'm afraid it was not working. In a community containing people from all over the world, almost any political or religious statement is upsetting to somebody. And not everyone was willing to show such goodwill and willingless to learn. Members of the Council were spending more and more time monitering threads that were becoming more and more contentious, time that would have been better spent improving the site in other areas. We were aware that some people were becoming upset, and realising these "friendly" debates were slowly heading in the direction of Prog's road to "hatred and bigotry" we decided to do something about it.

We did not come to this decision lightly, and we knew not everyone would be in agreement, but it is the decision we came to, and it is final.


And I must agree with Prog and the Council here. This site is a lovely home to all of us, let's keep it that way. Even in real life, discussions on topics like politics and religion can lead to serious disagreements and fights, which cause former friends to start and hate each other. We don't want that to happen, do we. And after all, like it has been said before so many times, this is a Tolkien site, and it's meant to discuss Tolkien, and anything related to him or his books. And there are taverns to discuss other things, but do keep in mind that by saying something (even though you didn't mean to) you can seriously hurt or offend people. Believe me, I've been there. And I apologise if I've ever hurt of offended anyone, it was NOT my intention. Thumbs Up Smilie
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Members of the Council were spending more and more time monitering threads that were becoming more and more contentious, time that would have been better spent improving the site in other areas

This is a very important argument in favour of your decision. Perhaps I did not wholly realize what amount of time and effort was devoted by the Council Members to prune the posts from all uwelcome elements. Thank you for your effort!
I also think that we should all respect above all the wishes of Taz who created for us this site. And I agree that it is very easy, to hurt someone's feelings, even if one tries very hard to do his best to avoid any tensions. I myself am not easily offended, but just now my feelings have been a little hurt by the ending of the post of Val:
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, but it is the decision we came to, and it is final
/
Perhaps it is just my extra stiff neck, but it sounded... well, how to say??? at least for me, it sounded as a very clear sign that Council Members do not wish any feedback from the community concerning their decisions, even if these opinions are expressed a posteriori and can in no way influence their decisions. Please don't be offended in your turn Val, but that stern ending of your post sounded to me almost... totalitarian. For the first time since I am visiting PT I felt frozen, I felt I have been rebuked like a silly little hobbit who dared to meddle in the affairs of mighty wizards. It was VERY unpleasant!
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This is fantasy. It's a wonderful idea but would never work in practice. I've seen it happen over and over again. I've seen people go from civil discussion to heated debate to spiteful shouting in as many posts. At that point your merely communicating AT someone rather than WITH them and that is completely inconstructive

I still think it is extremely sad and upsetting, that so many of us actually prefer to be censored instead of trying to control themselves, and that we prefer to avoid to talk about some very important matters rather than to learn to talk about them without hatred. A bad omen for our world, I am afraid. If people fail to discuss, they will fight!
As for the serious confusion here: We are not BANNING religion within Tolkien, nor politics within TOLKIEN. But outside of it, yes. You can still talk about most non-Tolkien related subjects within the Taverns. But outside of them it is strictly Tolkien. At the end of the day were a Tolkien website and just that. You want to talk about any subject RELATED and within the grounds of a Tolkien medium, no problem. You want to discuss outside of Tolkien, still OK, but it's going to be moderated with rules set down.

I am sorry if this upsets people, but please this is not an open for discussion thread but more a notice of changes to come. If you wish to talk further or air you're views then you can email me personally at taz@planet-tolkien.com

I thank-you for your patience and understanding. And hope you enjoy the many new features the council has planned for PT.

In Fellowship.

Taz

[Edited on 14/12/2002 by Taz]
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And I agree that it is very easy, to hurt someone's feelings, even if one tries very hard to do his best to avoid any tensions. I myself am not easily offended, but just now my feelings have been a little hurt by the ending of the post of Val:

but it is the decision we came to, and it is final


I am very sorry, Eryan if that post was upsetting to you. We appreciate the views of our members, and I have a great deal of respect for you in particular. By saying what I did, however, I was trying to impress upon everyone that the decision had been made after a lot of discussion, and that the decision was final, rather than a working idea that was open for discussion and change. I wasn't trying to be totalitarian. I was just trying to write a statement that would answer the responses we had had, instruct members as to reasons why, and to impress that it was a final policy.

This is one of the reasons for being ultra-cautious with the subjects on any forum board or chat room. Because you cannot see the expression or read the mood of the person posting, it can easily lead to upsets. I am as much in favour of free speach as anyone, and we are not forbidding people to speak of such matters, we are just trying to avoid possible upsets due to these three contentious issues.

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Please don't be offended in your turn Val,
No problem, Eryan Smile Smilie

I again apologise for any distress I caused you.
Super Wow Smilie
Thank you Val!
P. S.The "superwow" smilie means that I am really impressioned!!!


[Edited on 16/12/2002 by Eryan]
This may come a bit late but I have been away and couldn't join the discussion about what discussions we could have. I just wanted to say I understand and agree with the council. We can't solve any of the worlds problems by arguing in the forum, the only thing we acceve is to make ourselves and/or others angry and sad. Tolkiens created a wonderfull world of hobbit and elves we can dream ourselves into and maybe forget the sadness of the world for a while. PT should be a refuge, a place to share our love of this world. Bush and Sadam does not belong here.