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Thread: Istari children???

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Nessa began this thread with the following post

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My question is, can the Isari have children?? I mean there are Maiar, and as we know Melian, a Maia who left Valinor and came to Middel-earth has a child with an ELb.
Now is it possibil that Olorin or Curunir (or one of the other Istari) weddet a women from Mirrel-earth and she borne him a baby??
Is this then a normal baby (like Luthien) or not??
Thanks for answerse!!!!!!


Arwen*Evenstar* replied

Hi Nessa, welcome to Planet-Tolkien.

I think that it is theoretically possible for the Istari to have children, since like you said Melian was a Maia and she gave birth to Luthien, it then stands to reason that the baby would be either elf or human depending on the mother.
However, having said that, I think that the Istari were probably forbidden to have children or to marry; just like they weren't allowed to take a permanent place of residence (but then that didn't stop Saruman from taking Orthanc).
Another point to ponder would be that since all the Istari took the form of really old men they are therefore unable to have children - maybe this was a preventative measure on the part of Illuvatar...I just don't know.
Oh well, thanks for the interesting question.

I think they just chose to have the form of old men for some reason, maybe so Men would respect their wisdom more. Come to think of it though, they must have been forbidden to have children because it would be no good having thousands of Istari round the place. What if Melkor converted hundreds of them to evil?
Not to get off topic, but many really old men can and do father children. Teacher Smilie Especially in this day and age with that "little blue pill" so widely available... but let's not go there Big Laugh Smilie

Other than that, I agree with you completely Arwen. I'm sure if they wished to have children they could... Gandalf, Radagast and the two Blue Dudes probably were too responsible to father any children and Saruman most likely felt it to be beneath him. Can't but help but wonder what Gandalf Jr. would have been like...
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Can't but help but wonder what Gandalf Jr. would have been like...
Me thinks he would have been an insufferable bore. "Let me tell you about my old man..." Rolling Eyes Smilie
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Come to think of it though, they must have been forbidden to have children because it would be no good having thousands of Istari round the place.


why must be the children Istari too??? I mean the children from Melian wasn't a Maia , or??? And that Olorin and the other 4 are Istari is a prozess of learning??? Not a gift of birth or???


(I hope you understand me ;-)) )

Bey
Well the childs apperance depends on which form the maia takes when impregnating/getting impregnated and when given birth.....If Melian took the form of a dog her offspring would probably be a mixture with elf and dog(to apperance not in blood)...or have I got it all wrong again?

Iyes you are with a stupid twit on this post I think little yellow guy Big Laugh Smilie

Namarië
Yeah, ok
but one other question I what is the meaning of this???
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Another point to ponder would be that since all the Istari took the form of really old men they are therefore unable to have children


Hey we never lose it!

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Not to get off topic, but many really old men can and do father children. Especially in this day and age with that "little blue pill" so widely available... but let's not go there


You don't even need the blue pill in most cases.

On the origonal point I don't think they were forbiden from having children, as if they did forbid themit would most likely eat away at them as did the secret of the flame imperrishable with Melkor. If they did forbid them then most likely Sauraman would have had a child just to see what uses it would have.
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why must be the children Istari too??? I mean the children from Melian wasn't a Maia , or??? And that Olorin and the other 4 are Istari is a prozess of learning??? Not a gift of birth or???

No but the children would have a powerfuland wise mentor to teach them many things in a very short space of time. This would most likely lead to the well known phrase power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!
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I think that it is theoretically possible for the Istari to have children, since like you said Melian was a Maia and she gave birth to Luthien, it then stands to reason that the baby would be either elf or human depending on the mother.

I think the child is still half maiar or what ever, it's just that in the only known cases, Luthien's father being an elf it isn't that noticable, being that the elves are the closest to the Ainur in the first place, that being the reason for them joining the Ainur after the end.
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I think the child is still half maiar or what ever, it's just that in the only known cases

I say this as some people belive Goldberry is a half-ainur!
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Yeah, ok
but one other question I what is the meaning of this???


Nonono Nessa donīt missunderstand me....I meant that the little yellow guy was pointing at ME and not YOU.....thatīs why I wrote: yes you are with a stupid twit on this post I think little yellow guy
get it? I was insulting myself Big Laugh Smilie
so donīt get angry.....
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Yeah, ok
but one other question I what is the meaning of this???
Right, the use of that sign is not meant to be derogatory, but a friendly agreement. We don't usually agree with something stupid said by anyone, so the sign is a joke, and the word "stupid" in this case is meant to be friendly jibe, not that the other person is actually thought to be stupid. Happy Elf Smilie

It is like something you would teasingly call your sibling or best friend, where they know not to take it seriously even though they might beat up someone else, were they to do so. That is the way it is being used. Orc Grinning Smilie
Exactly Grondy.....but I meant there that I was the dumb one because I didnīt know if I was right or not....
Hey thanks @ you two Grondmaster and Aulë. Then I realy did'nt know the meaning. Thanks very much......evry day I learn something new ;-)))
Well in the Silmarillion, it's said that Melian took the form of one of the Children of Illuvatar (Elves, not Men). The Istari, on the other hand, took the bodies of mortal Men, though they didn't die of age. The age wouldn't be a factor (do you really think a guy like Gandalf needs Viagra?) but the fact that that was not what they set out for is key. Melian "left" her place as a spirit and inhabited a body for the purpose of staying with Thingol.
yep....it may be correct....but she didnīt leave for Thingols sake...she left because she wanted to visit Beleriand.....but they got married and etc.
I think it's quite probable that Gandalf had other things on his mind than pleasuring Ms Greyhame!
I think you're right Peredhil about the little Istari running all over the place and Ross about the power thingy. I think that in general the Istari were sent to ME to give guidence and help against Sauron, not to dominate over those less wise. Therefore they didn't need to have lots of powerful children, their energy was spent against Sauron.