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Thread: why is it alot of people don't think frodo is doing a good job bearing the ring?

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Hi there #1! Waving Hello Smilie

Well I donít know who is dissing Frodo, but Iím certainly not one of those people, as in the books he is one of my favorite characters. I think Frodo had tremendous strength, and a very strong spirit. No one else could have carried the burden so long, and he tried the best he could to complete his task.

Iím assuming that being only 12, that you most likely have not read The Silmarillion, but really Frodo is kind of a Third Age instrument of Eru (the one God, also known as Illuvatar), and take my word for it, that says a lot about his character. Frodo was part of Eruís divine plan in the ultimate scheme of Ea (the World, the material universe).

The ďweakeningĒ if you will, on Frodoís part was necessary for Tolkien not only to show the incredible corrupting power of The One, but also for Tolkien to illustrate the human condition. Had Frodo been some sort of a ďsuper HobbitĒ impervious to the will of The One, the story would have never worked. We need to see his faults, his struggles, and his weakness at times, because thatís how we as humans relate. We all have our own faults, struggles, weaknesses, and choices in our lives that each of us must face, and thatís something Tolkien so brilliantly conveys in his writings, and is a large part of why his stories have been so successful, and have touched so many people.

Having been around this site for a while (and on otherís where people arenít as nice as they are here, and say all sorts of nasty things about a lot of my favorite characterís), I think you will find that probably the reason that people dis Frodo, is because they think he whines too much. Kind of like how a lot of people I know canít stand Luke Skywalker in EP4 ďA New HopeĒ, and in EP5 ďThe Empire Strikes BackĒ because he comes off as such a whiner. However, I tell those people all the time that in Lukeís case, it was necessary to show his transformation from a snotty nosed kid who really didnít know anything, into the ultimate Jedi Master he becomes. The same is somewhat true for Frodo (in terms of transformation), just in a different fashion, and under different circumstances.

Donít let it get to you too much if people bag on Frodo, just realize that itís only their opinion, and theyíre entitled to feel that way if they want. After all Frodo is a Ring-Bearer, and in Tolkienís world, thatís one of the highest honors one can receive. In addition, Frodo was one of the few non-Elves who ever got to go to the Undying Lands, and there arenít many people who can say that.
Elf Winking Smilie
There's not a lot that anyone can add to that response Elfie.

I think the only thing you didn't really hit upon was the difference between Book Frodo and Screen Frodo. I'm not meaning any disrespect to Elijah Woods, because for me he really brought Frodo alive, but Book and Film Frodo do seem different to me. I think in the book Tolkien had plenty of time to develop Frodo's struggle with the ring. He was also able to describe Frodo's inner feelings.

Peter Jackson has two difficulties to overcome here. He only has a few hours to portray these same struggles, and unable to show on screen Frodo's inner feelings, he has had to rely on Elijah's performance and range of pained expressions to demonstrate to the audience what is going on. Without taking anything from either PJ or EW, these two problems have tended to make it seem as though Frodo is surrendering himself to the ring far too quickly, and at times he is coming across as a bit of a wuss.

When people critisize Frodo, therefore, I think it is the film Frodo rather than the Book Frodo they are having a go at.

And don't forget that many of them are just jumping on the "slag off Frodo" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Cow Sleeping Smilie Cow Sleeping Smilie Cow Sleeping Smilie (these smilies, by the way are the nearest I can find to sheep - my response to anyone who slags off anyone else just because it's trendy to do so. I totally exclude Plastic from this catagory as he's the original instigator rarther than a follower of fashion Wink Smilie )

Elfstone and Valedhelgwath have got it right #1ElijahLover, it is the movie Frodo that is wussish, only due to the time restraint of developing a character's inner feelings and strengths on film.

In the book Frodo is strong and remains so until he gets to Mordor when due to the nearness of Sauron, The Ring becomes more powerful and overbears Frodo's innate incorruptibility and grinds him down. Even then he isn't a wuss, just a poor hobbit that has had a great burdensome task laid upon him, that he can only complete with the help of his friend and his mirror image, that being Smťagol/Gollum.

That some people also don't like Sam is just their being contrary and/or their following the pack of naysayers. Try to ignore them, or at least don't take them seriously, and never let them get to you. You have a right to your views and beliefs as do they, and we can remain a happy family if no one is put down for their views and beliefs. Happy Elf Smilie

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Peter Jackson has two difficulties to overcome here. He only has a few hours to portray these same struggles, and unable to show on screen Frodo's inner feelings, he has had to rely on Elijah's performance and range of pained expressions to demonstrate to the audience what is going on. Without taking anything from either PJ or EW, these two problems have tended to make it seem as though Frodo is surrendering himself to the ring far too quickly, and at times he is coming across as a bit of a wuss.
Plus the fact that Peter Jackson has never read the book! I like Frodo from the Book, I just can't stand him or any other character from the films, due to the fact that they're nothing like the characters in the book!
i adore the frodo from the book and forever will, for he was first and he was just differant from the movie. but i cannot deny,ethier,that i do not have a little soft spot for the movie frodo.but as you all have said and are right, the book is forever better.[even though the movies are kool]

sincerely:#1ElijahLover

(o! and ElfStone i have read the begining of Sil, in 5th grade, but stopped beacause i found it a bit difficult. Wink Smilie )
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i have read the begining of Sil, in 5th grade, but stopped beacause i found it a bit difficult
It is not an easy book to read at any age, #1EL, particularly when you are so young. However, try not to be put off by your first impression of it. As you become older, and your patience and literary skills improve, try it again. It is a wonderful book, and for anyone interested in the history of Middle Earth beyond LotR, it really is a must.

We ran a Silmarillion Reading Discussion group here on the forum, which I hope has since become a useful guide for anyone reading the Silmarillion for the first time. I wouldn't normally suggest it, but try reading certain chapters rather than the whole book. I'd suggest Chapter 19 Of Beren and Luthien and Chapter 21 Of Turin Turambar. These two are almost stand alone sections that are wonderful stories in their own right.
Yes I agree with Val #1EL, itís probably best to wait till you get a little bit older before you have another go at reading the Sil. However, when and if youíre ready, youíve got a serious treasure waiting for you to be harvested.

Anyway, as Val and Grondy (and others) have rightly pointed out, itís really the movie version of Frodo that other people have issues with. I purposely tried to steer clear from mentioning the movie Frodo, because obviously youíre a huge E.W. fan, and I didnít want to throw water on your fire in anyway. Personally Iím not that big on E.W. (maybe if I was your age, and female that might be different, but Iím a 32-year-old male, so itís Liv, and Miranda that I have a tendency to swoon over), but I have nothing against him, and I do think heís doing an admirable job portraying Frodo. He doesnít write the lines, so itís not really his fault that P.J. and Co. are making him appear vastly different than the book Frodo at times.

Also, as Grondy said, just ignore the naysayers. There is always going to be people out there that will bash on something just because (even though when you call them on it, 95% of the time, they canít ever articulate an intelligent response), especially in this case, because there are so many young girls out there like yourself that are into E.W., and O.B. Try not to let it bother you.
Elf Winking Smilie
Elfstone, every time I read one of your post, I realize what a wonderful, intelligent, articulate, and considerate person you are and I am so glad that your are a part of our Tolkien community. Thank you.
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I purposely tried to steer clear from mentioning the movie Frodo, because obviously youíre a huge E.W. fan, and I didnít want to throw water on your fire in anyway.
Nor did I for that matter #1EL. To me Elijah was the perfect person to play that role. Like I said, he brought Frodo alive for me. He was just as I had always imagined Frodo to look. My only problem was with the length of the film. It would take hours to properly develop the Ring's hold over Frodo; something they did not have. Unfortunately, like I pointed out above, this is one of the drawbacks films face compared to the books they are taken from.
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Elfstone, every time I read one of your post, I realize what a wonderful, intelligent, articulate, and considerate person you are and I am so glad that your are a part of our Tolkien community. Thank you.


How very kind of you to say Mellie, thank you, I really appreciate that (btw, I really enjoyed reading your journal entry ďLifeís LessonsĒ today)! I think most of the credit probably deserves to go to my Mom, who is truly a wonderful, and kind person, and also to my Grandparents who really had a big hand in my upbringing, although I do have to take a little credit for me being me.
Tongue Smilie

Thanks again though, your kind words today really helped to pick me up. Iím afraid that right now, Iím temporarily down on my luck a bit. I sometimes wish other people could see the kind of person I really am, but unfortunately I get falsely judged on my appearance all the time. Iíve been trying to find a part-time job to supplement my income the past couple of weeks, and I keep getting the door slammed in my face because of the way I look. Iím afraid that in ďreal lifeĒ I kinda look like Beren, or Aragorn when theyíve been wandering in the wild for too long (Iíve got long hair, and a beard), and nobody will give me a chance. Iím also pretty stubborn sometimes, and since Iím really just looking for a part time temporary gig for the next 3 to 6 months, Iím not willing to alter my appearance in any drastic fashion, or jump through hoops for anyone.

Itís really kind of funny to tell you the truth, and outside of the fact that I really need the extra cash right now, it doesnít bother me personally at all. I completely understand things from their point of view, and I respect that, but like the saying goes, ďYou canít judge a book by its cover.Ē
Elf Smilie
You are so right about not being able to judge a book by it cover. I personally like long hair and and a beard on a men. I think it is sexy. If I had a business, I would hire you in a heartbeat. lol Especially after all of your wonderful posts here. Alas, I can't help you out. Good luck on the job hunting
I really think our dear Frodo did the best he ever could have.And I understand what you mean #1, could you blame the hobbit for snapping once in a while under such HUGE pressure? I dont think he could have done the job with-out Sam,Sam took care of him with all of the love and courage he could I think Sam is truly a unseen hero threw-out it all.
LadyF~
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You are so right about not being able to judge a book by it cover. I personally like long hair and and a beard on a men. I think it is sexy. If I had a business, I would hire you in a heartbeat. lol Especially after all of your wonderful posts here. Alas, I can't help you out. Good luck on the job hunting


Well Once again I must thank you for your kind words, and the vote of confidence Mellie!
Happy Elf Smilie

Yes itís not the ladies that ever seem to have a problem with my hair; itís just the employers! Although Iím a happily married man (the wife and I just celebrated our one year anniversary in May), it certainly never seemed to hurt my chances when I was a single lad.
Elf Winking Smilie

Alas, I canít really complain, the situation Iím in is just temporary. Iíve actually been really lucky (probably part of my problem) the last couple of years. I started my own business 2 Ĺ years ago, so Iíve enjoyed the benefits of being my own boss. Plus I have a lot of positive things on the horizon in the not too distant future. In about 3 to 6 months from now Iíll be back to being my own boss again.

Thatís part of what makes it so tough right now though, after not having to work for anybody else for the last 2 Ĺ years, I soooo donít want to work for anybody else again (unless it was really worth it), but sometimes we all gotta do what we gotta do! Anyway something will turn up.
Wink Smilie
I can defeat everything you just said in one sentance.

Explain Peter Jackson's portrail of Faramir?
Anilorak my friend, I have some small words of advice if I may. Iím sure Ross is a nice guy when he wants to be (just kidding), and heís a Tolkien purist, and a defender of the faith, which I immensely respect, because so am I, but he absolutely loathes P.J., and the movies, and you will be wasting your time debating anything about the films with him. There is nothing that you, or I, or anyone else on this site (or in the world for that matter) can do to possibly change his mind even in the slightest bit when it comes to P.J. I think itís quite possible that Ross is the person that despises P.J. the most in the entire world!

Donít take it personally, and donít let it get to you. If you spend enough time around here (and I hope you do), you will ultimately realize that thatís just Ross being himself.

No offense intended Ross; I can respect the way you are. At least youíre honest, and true to yourself. I wasnít happy with P.J. and Coís portrayal of Faramir in TTT in the least bit either, but Iím willing to give him the chance to redeem himself in ROTK. However, if Faramir still comes off looking like he did in TTT, I wonít be happy!
Elf Rolling Eyes Smilie
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Alas, I canít really complain, the situation Iím in is just temporary. Iíve actually been really lucky (probably part of my problem) the last couple of years. I started my own business 2 Ĺ years ago, so Iíve enjoyed the benefits of being my own boss. Plus I have a lot of positive things on the horizon in the not too distant future. In about 3 to 6 months from now Iíll be back to being my own boss again.

Thatís part of what makes it so tough right now though, after not having to work for anybody else for the last 2 Ĺ years, I soooo donít want to work for anybody else again (unless it was really worth it), but sometimes we all gotta do what we gotta do! Anyway something will turn up.
Although I shouldn't really be dragging this Frodo thread off topic, I've just got to say, I know just what you are going through, Elfie. For a long while I was self employed myself as a fisherman. It was a job that I really loved, and like you I had long hair and no intention of selling out. Fishing came to an abrupt end in 1997, however, and for just over two years I had to do some horrible jobs to keep the bills paid.

What kept my spirits up, though, was knowing I had a light at the end of the tunnel. It took me two and a half years, but I aimed myself at getting my current job. It meant me selling out with the hair, which by then was falling out pretty quickly anyway, but that was a sacrifice I'm now pleased I made.

As for how employers viewed my long hair... I was actually surprised. It never really seemed to matter. They saw that I was a good worker who always got on with what I was supposed to be doing, and almost always just became "that guy with long hair". I wasn't willing to risk it for this job though. It was that shining light, and I really didn't want to mess it up.

Good luck with what you are doing.
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What kept my spirits up, though, was knowing I had a light at the end of the tunnel.


Thanks for the kind words Val I appreciate it! I definitely do have some big, bright lights at the end of my tunnel, and that certainly helps me to stay positive, and focused on the big picture.

I made my own bed with this temporary situation Iím in anyway. As Iíve stated on this site a few times before, music is my main thing. Iíve had tons of friends that have all had major label record deals, and every single one of my friends, and their bands have gotten screwed over by the bigs.

Seeing first hand how lame most major labels are, I decided to go it on my own. With my current project, my partner and I play acoustic blues (traditional, and originals), and I have completely financed our first album (coming out next month) on my own. The problem is that I used my cash flow from my business to finance the album, and the process has taken a little bit longer than initially expected (I originally thought I would have the album out about 8 months ago), so itís really just a short-term sacrifice (and completely worth it). As soon as the album comes out, and we sell x amount of copies, I will recoup my cash, and be back to being my own boss again. This process should only take a few months. Plus we have a bunch of gigs coming up, so that will help put some scratch in the old back pocket.

Weíve got some people with serious contacts that are excited, and very into what weíre doing. When our album comes out, its going out to a lot of people at specifically smaller labels that cater to blues artists, and some radio stations, and magazines, so who knows we may even end up getting some sort of a deal. Although it would have to be something that would be to good to pass up, because Iím more than content to finance our records, and promote us on my own (I manage us as well).

Thereís definitely some exciting things on the horizon!
Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie

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I was also somewhat dissapointed with the portrayal of my absolute favorite character, Treebeard. The 'butchery' of his character made me cry.


Anilorak, I was also severely disappointed with that aspect of the film, but we can take some solace in the fact that the extended edition of TTT, is going to have tons of additional footage with Treebeard, and the Ents, so we should be a lot happier with their treatment when that comes out in November!

My apologies to all PT members, and to the Council for this thread straying a bit off topic recently. From this point on, Iíll try to take all non-Frodo related discussion elsewhere.
Happy Elf Smilie



It's ok Anilorak, I think Elfy just hit the nail on the head explaining me. I too am unhappy with treebeard and everyother character, with the exception of the Nazgul. Although these guys aren't scary or sinister enough!
hopefully there will be some scenes in the extended DVD that will put right the wrongs to some of the charactors in ttt, as PJ said in the fotr ex DVD about the fotr theactrical version of the movie, they had to keep the movie *ring* orientated and cut anything that moved away from that, but there were many bits, like the gift giving, that he was loathe to cut, but had to, but we'll see won't we.
I can't wait to see Shelob! That's gonna be fun!
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November seems sooo far away!! Sad Smilie
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I can't wait to see Shelob! That's gonna be fun!
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Isn't Shelob not going to appear until movie 3??
Yes, so we must wait to see Shelob in December, unless we actually luck out and she is included on a LotR: RotK trailer in the November release of the LotR: TTT Extended DVD.
I still haven't watched the extended version,but I hear is is much better then the non-extended version.
In Fellowship of the Ring( the movie)I was soo dissapointed ,being that they didn't show enough of the Elves! Very Sad Smilie Or at that the Ents,maybe I think that because Ents are 1 of my favorite characters.I thought Fellowship of The Ring was done well.
The Two Towers(the movie) had some unforgiving parts, like what they did with Faramir ect...

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I can't wait to see Shelob! That's gonna be fun!
I agree, fun and scary! She is such a creepy and disgusting animal,just gives me chills thinking of itDisturbed Smilie
>LadyF<
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It would be really cool if we got to see Shelob suck the blood out of an orc or something!!
Her just biting Frodo will be ample for me; I'm uncomfortable near spiders, automobile sized ones even more so! Wary Smilie

[Edited on 5/7/2003 by Grondmaster]