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Thread: Who thinks Sam is taken for granted by Frodo???

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Welcome to our forum Jgoddard. Happy Elf Smilie Hope you enjoy yourself reading here and to see more of your posts.

Yes Frodo probably took Sam for granted during the first part of the journey; however, once they crossed the Anduin above Rauros he found he really needed Sam. And at journey's end he rewarded Sam by settling Bag End upon Sam and Rosie for the growth of their future family.
Welcome to Planet Tolkien, JGoddard.

I think at the start Frodo and Sam shared a master/servant relationship, which is afterall what they were. As time went on, however, their relationship changed and Sam became a shoulder for Frodo to lean upon. By the end, having gone through so much together, they shared a bond greater than any normal friendship.
I agree with both Val and Grondy.
I wanted to add though that even if it may seem that Frodo takes Sam for granted and Sam does all the cooking, etc, I think you also have to put some weight in how much the ring was affecting Frodo. It was draining him from resitance, power of will and energy. And the longer Frodo had the ring, the weaker he became, on all three spots. I think Sam understands this, since he has also carried the ring for a little while, even if not to its full extent. So even though Frodo may be Sam's master and Sam Frodo's servant, I think that both Frodo and Sam realises that Frodo hasn't got the power to go find food or do stuff like that. Frodo has to save his powers, as he knows it'll only get worse the closer they get to Orodruin and Baradúr. He also has to trust his own heart, as he was assigned this quest and not Sam. The only thing Sam can really do is to support Frodo the best way he can, and he does that throughout the book. And like Grondy said: Sam got Bag End from Frodo when they came back, and even though Bilbo didn't get quite as much gold so that he could fill big tunnels with it in The Hobbit, like the rumours has to tell, I think that there lies a big fortune just by owning the estate.
Sure, he is right about Gollum being up to something, which he is, to lead them into Shelobs cave. The question is if that really was Gollum's motive or the motive of the orcs/Sauron? Either way, Frodo knows that they will not find a way into Mordor unless they follow Gollum. He also remembers that Gandalf said that Gollum still has a part to play, for good or for bad. I'm guessing that since Gollum helped them out of Emyn Muil and over the dead marshes and to the black gate, Frodo is hoping that he will help them some more and not lure them into any trouble, as he hasn't so far.
So.. No, I do not think that Frodo takes Sam for granted. Like Val said; their relationship changed and Sam became a shoulder for Frodo to lean upon. They aren't really described as master and servant when they get home, it seems more like they are good friends. Sam is busy with his family and planting trees all over The Shire and Frodo is... well, probably mostly longing for Valinor and the grace of Valar.
Sam was a very loyal servant, so loyal that he followed his master into the fires of Mount Doom. Sam was right and not right not to trust Gollum : Gollum made it possible for them to enter Mordor, but the only reason he did this was maybe because he couldn't deal with Frodo and Sam at the same time. Taking his precious to Mordor was a bit peculiar even to Gollum.

Anyway, i think in the end Frodo had changed too much to make it possible that they became really good friends and before this, Sam saw Frodo as his master. They weren't really buddies imho.
I don’t think Frodo ever took Sam for granted. I think Frodo had a great love, and respect for Sam. If he did ever take Sam for granted, as Grondy mentioned, it could only have been at the very beginning. I think from Rivendell on, there is now way Frodo didn’t realize how important Sam was to him, and certainly from the Emyn Muil on, Frodo knew he absolutely needed Sam.

On a small side note, Sam and Frodo may have begun the quest as master and servant, but when the quest was completed, and they returned to the Shire they weren’t. Sam may have still thought of their relationship that way (because of how humble he was, and the love he had for Frodo in his heart), but they really had become equals. They were both Ring-bearers, they both had critically important parts to play, and neither could have succeeded without the other. JMO.
Elf Smilie
I don't think Frodo took Sam for granted, more that he believed that, as the ringbearer and the one who volunteered to take the ring to Mordor, he should be able to do it himself, without putting anyone else in danger.

When Frodo leaves the Company he sees it as Aragorn said

"He is the Bearer, and the fate of the Burden is on him...There are other powers at work far stronger."

Frodo was glad that Sam managed to come with him even though he had intended to go by himself. At this point he appreciates Sams help and company, but he doesn't see things as clearly as Sam, and doesn't realise how hard things will be.

At the end, he understands what has happened and knows what Sam did. At the time he can't really see it. It isn't that he takes Sam for granted, more that he believes that he could do it himself, then because of the ring, he has trouble understanding what Sam does.
In my mildly insain opinion Sam was taken for granted right up until he and Frodo reached Mordor. I think he and Frodo really became firm friends once Frodo realised that Sam was really all he had; he couldn't trust Gollum and couldn't truely trust himself because of the ring. Also, whenever Frodo couldn't defend himself, Sam was there to do it for him.

Despite all of this I still find Sam really agrivating! Very Evil Smilie

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As time went on, however, their relationship changed and Sam became a shoulder for Frodo to lean upon.

Only because at some point Sam was the only thing holding Frodo up. Big Laugh Smilie
Ack! I just noticed that after I last posted on this thread nobody else had said anything on it! OMG! I killed it! I'm a thread murderer! *sobs* Very Sad Smilie
Elk Grinning Smilie Welcome to the club, Halo. I've noticed I also have killed a few threads in my time—I didn't even have to use my lock or delete thread buttons, I just had to make the last post and everyone was scared off. Elf Winking Smilie

Anyway, don't take it personal, I don't, nor do I blame you. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Awww, thanx Grondy! *Hugs Grondy* That made me feel a lot better about my little on-line thread homicide! Orc Grinning Smilie
Frodo should have taken Sam for granted more, and kicked him a little more often, and shoved him in the fire at the end, claiming it to be a tragic Accident.
Sam moron, Frodo whiny, without moron to help, whiner would whine less, and get the job done on his own. Like kids who only learn to do things, when you stop doing them for them. Sam useless, kill Sam.

That ought to start it up again Halo....
LOL Ha Ha Ha Smilie Plastic this really sounds like you!
We had this confersation some time ago, so I leave it to someone else to defend poor Sam. Tongue Smilie
I don't think Frodo took Sam for granted at all, it was just that toward the end of the book he showed his appreciation for Sam more. This was due in large part to the burden of the Ring, as Aire said, once he had the burden removed, Frodo could think about other things. Also Frodo seems to move from a clear-minded character who doesn't show a lot of emotion to a more friendly person who really understands how lucky his is in his friends.
As for not trusting Gollum, I think that while Frodo may know he depends on Sam, I don't think he ever thinks he can depend on Sam's wits until after Cirith Ungol (if even then). So this may be why he doesn't listen to Sam.
And that would be my defense of Frodo, if not of Sam, as I don't think I can defend Sam against Plastic's peerless hatred... Wink Smilie
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... as I don't think I can defend Sam against Plastic's peerless hatred... Wink Smilie
I won't even try. THE SKWRL can run verbal rings around me when he tries, so I let him win the battles where his argument obviously needs a wet suit, and only nit pick when it is slightly damp behind the ears. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
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Frodo should have taken Sam for granted more, and kicked him a little more often, and shoved him in the fire at the end, claiming it to be a tragic Accident.

And eatten. A nice, plump, tender Sam; roasted in his own fat in the fires of mount doom. Jumping Flame Smilie Acompanied with chips, a light salad and a side order of garlic bread. Its the new alternative to turkey at christmas dinner ya known.

Then again, roast Sam goes great in a sandwich, with a little mustard or pickle! Orc With Thumbs Up Smilie
Sad Smilie poor sam, you all want to eat him!!!!!! frodo would never eat sam alone.......... i'm sure he'd share him with gollum!! Big Laugh Smilie just kidding i agree with whoever said this before. frodo never took sam for granted because it was the rings fault. i think that the ring took sam for granted up until mount doom when it was destroyed. then frodo realized sam was right about gollum. and that he could have been killed if sam wasn't with them. He had the ring destroyed so less evil could change his mind about gollum. he could be himself again Tongue Smilie

yes i agree that they could never do it without gollum. to tell you the truth i was kinda sad when i found out gollum fell into the fires of mount doom!!! Sad Smilie *tear* he was so ugly he was cute!!!!!! Wink Smilie
I think Frodo might of , he may not off really thought about it because of the quest. But he did give him something. Sam could off just left Frodo anytime but he didn't because they where such great friends. Well, i have nothin else to say. ~irima-Arwen