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No, I haven't posted it yet. I have a weekly column (starting on Monday) at LOTROnline.com - my first article is about the "real" villan in LOTR. YOu'll have to read it to find out what I think about it
About happy endings. Fairly common to most genre fiction, especially romance (whats a romance without a "happily ever after"?).
But not everyone in the LOTRs got to live happily ever after. Look at Frodo, and his wounding. Look at the tragedy of Elrond and Arwen.
Eucatastrophe is used in almost all fantasy that I have read. It does give one that kind of rewarding feeling.
Faye: who is the "real" villain?
Grondmaster moved Ungoliants posting to 'Turin son of Hurin'
[Edited on 7/3/2002 by Grondmaster]
About happy endings...
Did you remark that a large part of love stories does NOT have a happy ending?
Some examples: "Casablanca" - Rick lets Ilsa to go with her husband; "Out of Africa" - Karen has to go back to Denmark, Denys remains in Africa and then gets killed in a plane accident; "Love story": the heroin dies from leucaemia; "Gone with the wind": Scarlett cannot win the love of Ashley and learns to love Rhett when it's already too late... So finally it seems that we like sad endings as well, not only happy ones!
A relatively new "invention" is a fusion of sad & happy ending - you can then have "two in one" like in "Wash and Go" shampooes. !)
Examples: the ending of the movies "Braveheart" and "Gladiator". In both cases the hero dies, but then his soul (spirit) goes straight to his beloved wife (already dead). Strangely enough, the overall artistic effect is not bad at all! (Sorry Swampfaye for having used again the word "artistic" but sometimes it's difficult to avoid it[Edited on 8/3/2002 by Eryan]
I'm starting a post on PP* about "happy endings"
* PP = The Prancing Pony Tavern
[Edited on 9/3/2002 by Grondmaster]
I still don't really get to liking Faramir. I re-read LOTR now, and he didn't really strike me as... well, a real character. He's nice, friendly, and whatever you like, but he hasn't got that depth other characters have... Well, at least that's what I think...
For me it has all depth necessary to feel that he is very real. A real leader of men, able to induce in them trust and love... and yet someone who has constantly to fight with external dangers and his own weakness. And there is a touch of sadness about him, one really wants to do something for him!
I really hope that he had a happy life aftter the war of the ring!
I don't know what's wrong with me, but I didn't feel him like that at all... Anyone with me here? :duck
I'm reading Val's story now, and it's great so far!
Hey, question for y'all: why is everyone a stranger? You have all kept your number of posts, but you're all strangers, even Plastic and Golly! Huh?
Just to tell you that there are two bits of fan fiction telling about Faramir in the Fan Fiction section: a brilliant bit by Valedhelgwath telling about the Fall of Osgiliath (and Valedhelgwath announces more to come!!!!!!), and a song by mine...
That will be fixed with the passing if time. I see you, Tommy, are still a Posting Freak.
Of course! What else?
I looked at the board and saw the last post here was on 3/7/2002 and I thought... MARCH!? then I rembered how you Brits like to do everything bass ackwards
Of all the characters in the next movie - Faramir is the one I am most anxious about - I would hate to see them turn this beautiful man into a "warrior" like Boromir or Eomer. He was, if you get the feel of him, rather like Frodo - a man who listened to the wise with an opened mind - It was in his nature to be a scholar, rather than a fighter - but his father severely disapproved of that (you can see how he treated Gandalf with almost outright hostility). Yet Faramir was a more than adequate warrior when called upon to fight. He was very adaptable to the calling.
I looked at the board and saw the last post here was on 3/7/2002 and I thought... MARCH!? then I rembered how you Brits like to do everything backwards
Huh? What do you mean, backwards? 3/7/2002 is the third of July 2002, right? Now if it said 2002/7/3 I would follow you...
Us Americans would write the third of July as 7/3/2002...so to us, the rest of the world is backwards in writing 3/7/2002...I ended up switching my settings because I got too confused...
I already cannot understand why they choose an actor so physically unlike to Faramir who was tall and had long raven hair!!!
However, Russell Crowe has no exceptional good looks and yet he is simply great in the Gladiator... well, I am really curious!
I think they picked someone who looked similar to Sean Bean... not "Faramir" - so you can kinda "assume" family resemblance ,etc... Know what I mean? or did I lose you?
Yes Faye, I also thought so, but still it is a pity - I hope that the movie will not destroy my "representation" of Faramir based on the book!
Will Russell Crowe be playing Faramir? I didn't know that, why didn't someone tell me?
Suppose I just overread it somehow.
it's not Russell Crowe, Tommy...David Wenham is playing Faramir.
Eryan, I think the movie will only destroy your idea of Faramir if you let it...odds are it'll be different than what you expect, but that's no reason to let it ruin your own ideas of the way things should be.
Right again there Chika!
*breathes a sigh of relief* No Russell Crowe? Good.
I suppose Eryan's post confused me a bit, but I get the point now.
Sorry for causing that confusion about Russell Crowe, I only meant (at least for me) David Wenham is not so handsome as Tolkien's Faramir... but if he will do good acting, we will forgot his looks...
I don't know Eryan, I think Wenham is a bit too
Faramir was no wimp. He may have been sensitive and caring, but he was also a real man! He held off the Witch King's minions in Osgiliath, he was a great war leader, a wise steward and was well respected by his men.
*sigh* Where do you get a man like that? I dont think that they really exist.
I think Faramir should look manly as well as gentle and wise, if that is possible.....?
I actually never pictured Faramir looking like Boromir, though I know that in the book it said they looked like twins. I am very anxious about Faramir in the movie as well, but they did do a good job on Gollum. Faramir is one of my favorite characters in the book, and I also like the scenes between him and Denethor. I think that maybe the reason that his father didn't like him was because Faramir was the most like him of his two sons, good at the things he was good at, and so Denethor might have feared rivalry. This is why he was especially harsh in telling Faramir he wished he had died, because now with Boromir gone Faramir would be the next Steward.
Ok, this is proof of how nice and kind and gentle Faramir was. In the book, he grieved over the loss of his father and brother, though his brother was the very reason he was neglected by his father. Now if you were like that, do you think you would be sad that your brother or father died? I don't think so...
Boromir was a little rough but he was protective, just remember how he cared for the wellfare of the whole Fellowship during their journey from Rivendell. In the Appendices he was told to be a protector of Faramir during his childhood. Faramir must have appreciated it, remember, that he was a half-orphan (his mother died) and his father was rather severe. So when Boromir died, Faramir lost a person very dear and very close to him.
Hey I Liked Farimir! I Think His Part Was Great!
In the book, right Orimono?
Well Yeah! I Useally Like The Books Better Than The Movies...Actulally I ALWAYS Like The Books Better Than The Movies. I Thing I Hope For In TTT (Even though it has nothing to do with what were talking about)
Is That they do a good job on gollum!
Must agree. Books are usually better then the movies. Though I read Schindler's List first, and then I saw the film. Thought the film was great too. Not better than the book, but certainly not worse either.
They DID a good job on Gollum. Well what we were to see of him so far was pretty cool anyway.
Well, I will tell you something which may be quite shocking for you! I am really fond of Faramir, he is my favourite Tolkien character (together with Turin and Hurin his father), but I can understand very well the attitude of Denethor. And I realy think that if I were a Steward of Gondor, and if I had a son who had acted as faramir did (allowed two halflings to go unaided into Mordor with the One Ring!), I would be extremely upset and angry and I'd perhaps tell him as many harsh and bitter words as Denethor did. This was a noble deed and it proved right in the end, but what a narrow escape! Since his meeting with Faramir Frodo was twice taken prisoner by the Orcs and they failed to find the Ring only as a result of extreme good luck. And the Quest did not end in ruin only because of Gollum, because Frodo finally failed to throw it to the Cracks of Doom. Denethor was a shrewd man and he is the most tragic character in the whole book...
I completely agree that Denethor is indeed a tragic character, perhaps the most tragic in the trilogy. Do you think the anti-quest for the Ring would have been any less threatened if Denethor had it in his possession? The Palantir , the Stone of Minas Anor, was in Denethorís possession but under the control of Sauron. Through the Palantir, Denethor was led to believe that Frodo and the Ring were captured even though Sauron did not have Frodo or the Ring. If Faramir brought Frodo and the Ring to Denethor, Sauron would have surely succeeded in getting the One Ring back. Denethorís reaction to Faramirís choice was indeed understandable especially since Boromir agreed with his father that they could defeat Sauron and bring Gondor to its former glory if they had the Ring. But we all know there was only one who could wield the power of the Ring. Denethor spoke out of anger because he truly thought that the West was defeated, which is why he committed suicide and take Faramir with him. He loved his son enough that he did not want him to suffer under the rule of Sauron.
Denethor and Boromir were more concerned with politics and the rule of Gondor, Faramir was more sensitive and interested in humanity.
(Grondy only fixed the apostrophes)
[Edited on 7/10/2002 by Grondmaster]
I think that the anti-quest would not be more succesful, but if I were at the place of Denethor, I would be absolutely convinced that the quest of Frodo and Sam is dommed and may only end in disaster. And, hence, I would be extremely annoyed about the decision of Faramir. Attention, the situation was different when the Company was starting the quest in Rivendell. It was then led by Gandalf, a powerful Maia, almost as mighty as Sauron. But when the Company was reduced to Frodo and SAm only, the quest became hopeless. However, strangely, sometimes hopeless quests suceed. Some impossible, unexpected happy turns of events occurred even in our recent history! (Look, for instance, on quite recent peaceful transition from communism to democracy in Eastern European countries...
When I saw who was playing Faramir, I thought to myself that he looks like Sean Bean..he could actually be a relative in real life..If I had met them on the street I would assume that they were...maybe brothers? Just maybe
It seems like PJ has chosen a person that looks like Boromir, so that ppl will know who he is? Or something like that...I actually had something useful to say, but it flew out of my head...shame..
[Edited on 21/10/2002 by Celebrian]
...I actually had something useful to say, but it flew out of my head...shame..
That happens to the best of us, and we go ahead and write it anyway. In retrospect, I have found this to be the case with most of my posts.
Eowyn is ok for Faramir but when i 1st read about her, i thought she wuz hitting on Aragorn too much
If you want to see some very nice pics of Faramir, go to
and then type gallery/chmiel.
In this way you will find an art gallery of a young Polish artist, Katarzyna Chmiel - two pages of excellent pics!
I really fell in love with her pics of Faramir (and also of Boromir)... I am very curious about your opinions about her works!
Kasiopea does a nice job with the brothers, makes them seem brotherly, if fact. I really liked the "Faramir and Boromir lesson of Swordship"; it reminded me of coming home from university and playing with my 14 years younger brother.
Looks like Virgo got the greasy hair idea from her pictures.
all of these are excellent - I have a fondness for the ink and watercolors!
OMG. Every last one of them is exceptional. I'd like to have prints of these...
The color in the three paintings in the second row is incredible. Look at the texture in Boromir's hair in 'Boromir Frodo Amon Hen'. That is absolutely amazing! And the border in the one titled 'Seek for the Sword' is beautiful... I wonder if it was hand drawn...
You can clearly see that some of the later images are inspired by the actors from the films. I like the artists own conceptions better!
I read a paper on her in the Polish edition of "Newsweek", all is done manually, she is using a sort of expensive paint markers with exchangeable tops. Her work was selected by some Italian gallery to make a part of a larger exposition of art devoted to Tolkien world, along with the works of Ted Nasmith, Alan Lee and other most famous artists. She is a 30 year old woman, she made her thesis in philosophy on "The moral issues in the works of JRRTolkien", and then she wanted to study also in the Academy of Arts, but... was not admitted!... I am so happy she has a chance now to become known (and liked) in the whole world, I think that her drawings deserve that! I was rarely so moved as I am now by some of her pictures...
Actually, her style reminds me a lot of a style of Polish painters working in Cracow at the turn of the centuries, and in particular Stanislaw Wyspianski (who was also a famous poet and an postAuthorID of theatre plays)...
Welcome to Planet Tolkien, ilovefrodo. I hope you enjoy yourself here.
Hey, I like Faramir to! He's a cutie. I'm glad someone did a topic on him!
ilovefrodo: Welcome to our forum.
Welcome to Planet Tolkien 'ilovefrodo' nice to have you here.
Faramir has been one of my favorite characters since 1986. Tolkien gave Faramir a dream he often had himself, about a giant wave. In the book, while he and Eowyn are standing on the walls, he told her about this dream. It seems to me that Faramir has the tendency to have foreboding dreams about things that happen in the future. Like many of his fellow female fans, he is my ideal guy. I think Eowyn is the envy of every woman in Gondor
Welcome to PT LadyoftheShieldarm! Nice to have you with us.
Welcome to Planet Tolkien, LadyoftheShieldarm. I hope you enjoy your stay here and grace our boards.
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My welcome to you also LadyoftheShieldarm.