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Thread: Saruman

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I was just re-reading the paragraph in ROTK about Saruman's death...

Quote:
....about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.


Saruman, like Gandalf, was a Maia but his spirit did not return to Valinor or the halls of Mandos - he just dissipated and *poof* gone. Is this correct? Gandalf, when he died in Moria, returned to Valinor and was sent back. Does this mean that Saruman was unredeemable? Was it a conscious decision by the Valar to deny his return to Valinor?
Saruman was sent to help and protect, but insted he lied, killed, abused his powers and wanted more power. If he had gotten it his way, he would have taken Saurons place. Sauron was also a maia who turned evil. The difference is that Saruman was stopped 'early' while Sauron served under Morgoth himself and took over after him. No mercy for Sauron and no mercy for Saruman.
I agree with Amarie. I think that poof of wind was a clear message from Manwe (who controlled the winds). You ain't coming back here!

The Valar were quite unforgiving at times. Look how long it was before they let the Noldor return.
Yes, that cold wind from Valinor was symbolic of their giving Saruman the 'cold-shoulder'. "You blew it man, so now we're blowing you off! Bye bye!"" Exploding Head Smilie
I think Saruman got the same ban as Sauron... Though I'm not sure if they were sent into Void or just left to wander, shadows of malice and nothing more!
Yeah. If he didn't go to Valinor, or Mandos, then where? Perhaps he just DIED and didn't exist at all in any way anymore.
I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that Tolkien had just begun on writing on another war, something like rise of another Dark Lord in the fourth age. But never really got going with it. Maybe he had used these two. I'm not sure. Just a guess.
I agree with Grondmaster. The cold wind was symbolic of the West rejecting Saruman. And the grey mist makes me think it was a demotion of sorts, to grey. Anyhow, he sure had more chances than most to repent. Dead Smilie
Big Smile Smilie
Like Sauron, Saruman just became a powerless spirit, a shadow. He probably remained floating around Middle-Earth for ever. Saruman the grumpy Thundercloud.

An other possibility of course, is that he was thrown into the Void. But if that was the case, i believe it would have been mentioned somewhere by JRRT.
In any case, Saruman's powers were gone and he (like Sauron) was reduced to a weak, helpless spirit. And I agree that the breath of wind was a sign from the Valar of their refusal to accept him after what he had done.
How funny. I read that same passage last night and came to the same conclusion. I was about to start a new topic about this, but then I saw this thread.
Just wanted to let you know I noticed it too.
Dang! Everyone agrees. Pah! Is that the end of the discussion?
I guess so. Unless there are more people coming in stating that they agree.
How about someone who disagrees?
Quote:
How about someone who disagrees?
Okay Vee, here goes:

Little did the hobbits realize it at the time, but Saruman had made his preparations ahead of time, so that when his body shriveled up and his spirit was wafted away on the wind, it returned to that coffin he had secretly placed in the back of Gaffer Gamgee's root cellar, hidden behind that great mound of squash and po-taters.

So if you go down to the cellar tonight,
You're sure of a big surprise.
If you go down to the cellar tonight,
You'd better go in disguise.

For every fear that ever there was
Will gather there for certain, because
Tonight's the night the vampire has his kegger.

Or maybe it was to the buried phylactery to which the vaporized Saruman liche returned. What do you think?
It's as good as any of the theories and speculations i've read in here. And certainly the most entertaining so far. Keep posting.